31 replies to this topic

[rayvil01]

Hi.  Have been around the site doing research for a while before joining a couple of weeks ago.  I have an Orion 130 ST EQ which I've used for a number of years.  Looking to upgrade to a computerized scope with much better optics.  Not interested in astrophotography.  We live in the foothills of western NC with minimal light pollution.  Most interested in planets and Messiers.

 

What I've settled on after a lot of looking is the the Orion 10G GoTo computerized Dobsonian.  Solid wall OTA. By the time I add the power pack and the essential accessories it will just about max out the budget.  It comes with a 28mm 2" DeepView eyepiece and a 12.5mm 1.25" illuminated crosshair Plossl eyepiece.

 

So, I'm asking the good folks here for a few things: 

- Do you see any fatal flaws?

- Any recommendations for eyepieces?

- Dew Control; Do I need a heater console and multiple heaters?  Or, can I use some sort of wrap?

- Finally, I've read about binoviewers and am intrigued about that as an add-on at some point.  Apparently the Dobsonians present some challenges for them, but can be overcome.  Any input there?

 

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.  One quick thing I wanted to share was that with everything backordered it took the temptation out of impulse-buying a new unit.  I've shifted gears three times over the past month while looking into this after reading lots of good input to others.  

 

Ray

Edited by rayvil01, 16 January 2021 - 07:51 AM.

[Beeham]

I think a 10" go-to Dob will be a really nice scope, and you'll see a big difference from your smaller 5".

 

Addressing your questions:

 

- I don't see any fatal flaws

- For eyepieces, I know a lot of folks swear by the ED Paradigm as a good entry/mid-level eyepiece; I've had good luck with Meade 5000, Celestron Luminos, and Orion Q70 eyepieces as well (recognizing that they are mid-level and not premium equiment).  I'd look for a nice 30-35mm eyepiece for wide views, and maybe a 9mm or so for higher magnification, as a starting point.

- I don't have any electrical dew-preventers on my Dob, I would say start with none and only add them if dew turns out to be a problem.

- The biggest issue I would see is that (as on any Dob) once you become nose-heavy, you need a lot of counterweights to compensate.  Not a show-stopper, but weights are a hassle, especially if you have to transport the thing.

 

Enjoy your new scope!

[Asbytec]

It sounds like your lack of impulse buying and shifting gears means you've done your homework and found a good scope.

I'm not entirely sure you'll need a dew heater with a 10" solid tube. The tube itself acts like a very long dew shield. But, I'm not familiar with your local weather conditions either. A power supply is probably necessary if you observe far from your house.

I'd think for essential tools, you may need some reliable method of collimating your scope. Does the scope come with a laser? If so, you may get by with it and a collimation cap or Cheshire as a minimalist set on a budget. If not, maybe a 2" Far Point laser and Cheshire, or a 2" site tube from AstroSystems or CatsEye.

The other tools you may need are some eyepieces for medium to higher power. There is always a lot to consider, so I'd recommend starting a separate thread in the eyepeice forum stating your scope and budget. You'll get a lot of ideas, then take it from there.

So, you got the scope. It'll need to be collimated and have some way to magnify the image. That's essential.

Edit: having read Beeham's post, he's right. You may need some weights to balance the scope. You can buy them, or find something DIY. We can work that when you know more about whether you need them or not.

Edited by Asbytec, 16 January 2021 - 08:17 AM.

[SeaBee1]

Hello Ray and welcome to the forum!

 

My answers/opinions in post, in bold red

Hi.  Have been around the site doing research for a while.  I have an Orion 130 ST EQ which I've used for a number of years.  Looking to upgrade to a computerized scope with much better optics.  Not interested in astrophotography.  We live in the foothills of western NC with minimal light pollution.  Most interested in planets and Messiers.

 

What I've settled on after a lot of looking is the the Orion 10G GoTo computerized Dobsonian.  Solid wall OTA. By the time I add the power pack and the essential accessories it will just about max out the budget.  It comes with a 28mm 2" DeepView eyepiece and a 12.5mm 1.25" illuminated crosshair Plossl eyepiece.

 

So, I'm asking the good folks here for a few things: 

- Do you see any fatal flaws? Flaws? No... Orion scopes generally get good reviews. I have never owned an Orion personally, but many forum members do and like them. With any scope you purchase, there will be pluses and minuses... enjoy the pluses, and work through the minuses... I solved the minuses by building my own...

 

- Any recommendations for eyepieces? The two that come with will be adequate to start out, but eventually you will want a wider range and better quality. I use AstroTech Paradigm and recommend them often. They are not premium eyepieces, but they will be a step up from what comes with the scope. Eyepiece choices are entirely individual pursuits and can become a very deep rabbit hole... so many variables and so many choices... maybe consider a zoom eyepiece to give you an idea about what focal lengths work best for the objects you enjoy looking at, but proceed with caution and an open wallet...

 

- Dew Control; Do I need a heater console and multiple heaters?  Or, can I use some sort of wrap? Solid tube reflectors are to a large extent dew resistant. The only issue you may encounter could be a dewed up eyepiece, and dependent on your viewing environment... I live in north Texas, and have only had an eyepiece dew up a couple of times...

 

- Finally, I've read about binoviewers and am intrigued about that as an add-on at some point.  Apparently the Dobsonians present some challenges for them, but can be overcome.  Any input there? Two primary things apart from the expense of buying two of every eyepiece you will use... balance control and focus... the binoviewer will make the scope balance a challenge, but can be overcome with properly placed weight... the other thing of focus is that the primary mirror may need to be "pushed" forward a bit to bring the image into focus... and it is possible you may still not get there without modifying your scope... again, proceed with caution...

 

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.  One quick thing I wanted to share was that with everything backordered it took the temptation out of impulse-buying a new unit.  I've shifted gears three times over the past month while looking into this after reading lots of good input to others.  

 

Ray

 

Good hunting!

 

CB

[junomike]

I like the solid style OTA as there's no need for a shroud.

Start with the OEM eyepieces and see what focal length you desire.

Dew probably won't be an issue and as already stated, wait to confirm before buying anything.

As for Binoviewers, you'll need an OCS (usually included) to reach focus and also doubles of any focal length you use.

I'd wait until you're more familiar with the set up befre venturing into those waters.

 

Oh, If the set up doesn't include a Collimator, you'll definitely need that.  I use the cheap Orion Collimator II but there's more expensive offering as well.

[Bean614]

I've had the 12G, and it was excellent, so I think you'll like the 10 GoTo.

HOWEVER.......  You mentioned the Optical Quality of your 130 (you want something with "much better optics"), so here's my caution:  Did you ever Collimate your 130?  Those are know for having excellent optics, but unless it's correctly collimated, the user would never know that!  Are you aware that you will need to Collimate the 10G before every use, as you would with just about any reflector?  Are you prepared for that?

[spereira]

Moving to Equipment.

 

smp

[rayvil01]

Replies in Red:

 

Did you ever Collimate your 130?  Yes.  I did that a number of times.    The "better optics" is shorthand for a variety of performance items including all the manual aiming and associated body gymnastics. 

 

Those are know for having excellent optics, but unless it's correctly collimated, the user would never know that!  Are you aware that you will need to Collimate the 10G before every use, as you would with just about any reflector? Yes.

 

Are you prepared for that?  I have investigated some laser-assist units.  I'm counting that as an "essential accessory." 

 

Thanks for the reply

[ngc7319_20]

Sounds like you have a good plan, and good advice already.  I feel like this is a good choice given your location in dark skies.

 

Eyepieces:  I'd get two more around 15-20mm and 9-12mm for now.  Try to get them used, and you will save some $.  I like TeleVue -- a 17mm and 12mm Delos would be great but pricy.  These Astro-Tech Dual-ED get good reviews... maybe an 18mm and 12mm.

 

https://www.astronom...iece_series=478

 

Dew control: a heater strap on the eyepiece is a good accessory.  If the dew is really bad, you might want a heater on the secondary mirror.  But you can get that later.  You can also do tricks like keeping your eyepieces in an insulated soft-sided "cooler" with a hot (warm?) water bottle -- this is an easy solution at low cost.  If you have several eyepieces, you can keep cycling them through the warmed "cooler".

 

As for a binoviewer, I would leave that till later.  It can be a wonderful accessory.  The tube on this scope does not rotate -- that may place the binoviewer in awkward positions where it is difficult to view -- particularly at low elevations.  Balance will be an issue -- that can be as simple as strapping a weight (ankle weights with velcro, full water bottle, etc.) to the lower tube opposite the focuser.  You will need some lens (called an OCS) to push the focus farther out.  Once you are up and running, come back to the binoviewer question.

Edited by ngc7319_20, 16 January 2021 - 10:41 AM.

[Jon Isaacs]

Eyepieces:  I'd get two more around 15-20mm and 9-12mm for now.  Try to get them used, and you will save some $.  I like TeleVue -- a 17mm and 12mm Delos would be great but pricy.  These Astro-Tech Dual-ED get good reviews... maybe an 18mm and 12mm.

 

 

I have all the Paradigm Dual Eds except the 15 mm.

 

The 5mm, 8 mm and 12mm are well corrected in a fast scope, I would assume the 15 mm is since it's 6 elements like the 12mm. The 18mm, it's not so sharp across the field as the 12mm etc.

 

The 28 mm Deepvue is a 3 element design, pretty funky at F/4.7.

 

Add a good adjust observing chair at some point.

 

There's always time to buy accessories and more eyepieces. Spending the everything you have on scope makes sense because that cannot be done incrementally.

 

Jon

[Asbytec]

 

Add a good adjust observing chair at some point.

 

There's always time to buy accessories and more eyepieces. Spending the everything you have on scope makes sense because that cannot be done incrementally.

 

Jon

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with being comfortable.

Edited by Asbytec, 16 January 2021 - 12:09 PM.

[ngc7319_20]

I have all the Paradigm Dual Eds except the 15 mm. The 5mm, 8 mm and 12mm are well corrected in a fast scope, I would assume the 15 mm is since it's 6 elements like the 12mm. The 18mm, it's not so sharp across the field as the 12mm etc.

Interesting about the 18mm.  Website claims it is 6 elements like the rest.  Is this just coma in the OTA in 18mm?  Well thats probably another whole thread on eyepieces, or reviews somewhere.

[jerr]

Any budget is good but what's the budget?

[sevenofnine]

You've obviously done your homework. My only question is why the go-to? That feature adds a lot to the cost and could be used for accessories. From what I've "read" many turn it off and use the scope manually. The 10 inch dob is not a light weight scope either. The base on the go-to version adds to that. There's also an increase in set-up time involved with alignment. If that's all part of the fun of owning a big scope for you then by all means jump in. Good luck with your decision!

[Jon Isaacs]

Interesting about the 18mm.  Website claims it is 6 elements like the rest.  Is this just coma in the OTA in 18mm?  Well thats probably another whole thread on eyepieces, or reviews somewhere.

 

The Starguider Dual EDs are the same eyepieces as the Paradigms. Their website is more detailed and provides information on each focal length.

 

The 18 mm and the 25 mm show noticeable off-axis astigmastism in faster scopes but I still enjoy the views and they get a lot of use despite my having alternatives like the 22 mm Panoptic and 16 mm T6 Nagler that are sharp-sharp across the field.

 

Or maybe it's because I have those alternatives, i can use them if desired. The thing about the Paradigms is they're just very comfortable to view through, an easy view with enough eye relief and a wide enough field of view to feel expansive.

 

And there is something in the fact that the 18 mm Paradigm weighs 157 grams, the 21 mm Ethos weighs a cool 1005 grams. My set of 6 Paradigms weighs 1075 grams.

 

Jon

[rayvil01]

 

There's always time to buy accessories and more eyepieces. Spending the everything you have on scope makes sense because that cannot be done incrementally.

 

Jon

Excellent point.  Thanks.  I had set aside money in the budget for dew control that I'm learning is not a necessity.  I'm seriously considering jumping up to the 12" version of the same model scope.

[rayvil01]

Any budget is good but what's the budget?

I have a hard cap at $2500.  The idea was to keep the initial outlay to $2300 or under so there would be money available for goodies after a discovery period with the scope.  This scope needs a power pack, and I want to get one or two more eyepieces to expand on the two provided.  But, learning that I don't necessarily have to buy a dew heater controller and heating elements has me recalculating.  I'm seriously considering jumping up to the 12" version of the same model.  I still should have some "Goodie Fund" money left over after buying it and the pack.  A chair and a home-made transport cart to get it from the garage to the patio will come out of house money.  Really glad I put this post up.  Great feedback and input from everyone.  Thanks.

[rayvil01]

You've obviously done your homework. My only question is why the go-to? That feature adds a lot to the cost and could be used for accessories. From what I've "read" many turn it off and use the scope manually. The 10 inch dob is not a light weight scope either. The base on the go-to version adds to that. There's also an increase in set-up time involved with alignment. If that's all part of the fun of owning a big scope for you then by all means jump in. Good luck with your decision!

Thanks. I appreciate the thoughtful input.  GoTo is a prerequisite, however.  If manual scope control was the only option I wouldn't buy a new unit  

[Asbytec]

"I'm seriously considering jumping up to the 12" version of the same model."

A 12 solid tube is just starting to get big. Probably not too big for most folks, but it can be a little unweildy depending on your lower back, dexterity, hallways (with pictures hanging on the walls), doorways, stairs, elevators, etc. Some folks start to prefer a truss design at 12" and above. You may or may not mind the large closed tube. (I didn't mind mine years ago).

The 12g is also close to your budget leaving only $300 or so for goodies like a power supply, collimation tool(s), and a few descent eyepeices. That might leave enough left over to get your essential "starter kit".

Of course you can get either, and stretch your budget to get the 12" and additional accessories later. The 10g is a capable scope, the 12g a little more so. Transport is roughly inversely proportional to their aperture and tube weight and bulk.

I only mention it so you are aware, something to consider in the heat of the moment eyeing the 12g (which sounds a little like impulse buying and aperture fever combined ). Not to convince you either way.

Two seeming conflicting rules of thumb are to get the largest scope you can afford and carry, and the best scope is the one that gets carried outside, set up, and used.

Edited by Asbytec, 17 January 2021 - 08:23 AM.

[rayvil01]

"I'm seriously considering jumping up to the 12" version of the same model."

A 12 solid tube is just starting to get big. Probably not too big for most folks, but it can be a little unweildy depending on your lower back, dexterity, hallways (with pictures hanging on the walls), doorways, stairs, elevators, etc. Some folks start to prefer a truss design at 12" and above. You may or may not mind the large closed tube. (I didn't mind mine years ago).

The 12g is also close to your budget leaving only $300 or so for goodies like a power supply, collimation tool(s), and a few descent eyepeices. That might leave enough left over to get your essential "starter kit".

Of course you can get either, and stretch your budget to get the 12" and additional accessories later. The 10g is a capable scope, the 12g a little more so. Transport is roughly inversely proportional to their aperture and tube weight and bulk.

I only mention it so you are aware, something to consider in the heat of the moment eyeing the 12g (which sounds a little like impulse buying and aperture fever combined ). Not to convince you either way.

Good comments.  Thanks.  I'm lucky in that the storage for the unit is so close to the observation spot.  With either the 10" or 12" I'm going to fabricate a transport cart that takes the back out of the equation.  Still sketching on that.  Have to make sure that deploying the scope is not a pain in the anatomy.  If it is then it won't get used enough.

 

The truss design looks great.  But, it opens up a lot of rabbit trails all with dollar bill entrance signs.   If the 12" solid-wall is too unwieldy that's a big consideration.

 

Just considering at the moment.  I'm researching all of the various collimation suggestions and eyepiece suggestions.  I'll wait a week before committing.  Thanks again.

[Asbytec]

"I'm researching all of the various collimation suggestions and eyepiece suggestions. I'll wait a week before committing. Thanks again."

Right on. Think it through, have a plan, get the scope and essentials you think best serve you.

[bmurphy495]

IMO, skip the go-to and get a manual dob. The money saved you can spend on an observing chair. That being said the Aperturas are better scopes in my experience. Optics are the similar but the mechanics are better on the Apertura.  
 

B

[rayvil01]

IMO, skip the go-to and get a manual dob. The money saved you can spend on an observing chair. That being said the Aperturas are better scopes in my experience. Optics are the similar but the mechanics are better on the Apertura.  
 

B

Thanks.  I appreciate the input.  But, no thanks on the manual version.  GoTo is positively mandatory.

[junomike]

Thanks.  I appreciate the input.  But, no thanks on the manual version.  GoTo is positively mandatory.

Ya only go 'round once.   Get what ya want!

[Asbytec]

A good chair is probably going to be essential. Many or most of us like to sit when observing for hours because it's comfortable and stable. So, in that sense it will be essential. It should be adjustable to the eyepiece height of either the 10 or 12" scope. So, you might need to take into account what seating arrangements are available and the eyepiece height of both scopes. If you buy a custom made chair, it'll cost a little something extra but worth it.