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Very pricy Zeiss for auction

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#1 jouster

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:25 PM

Seems like there's a Zeiss from the '20s/'30s on everyone's fav auction site. The buy-it-now is a whopping $10k. Still, it is a Zeiss.....

More here.

#2 Bob W6PU

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 09:23 PM

For something as expensive( it Will be bid up!) as that, you really need to have someone over there, who is qualified to inspect everything and report back to you! Not to mention, arrange for safe shipping!

A red flag always goes up in my mind, whenever the seller says something like "of course I know nothing about this thing"... IMHO this is a way to cover themselves, nothing more !

If I were selling something very expensive, you can be sure that I would find out about it. Like, over in Europe, there's no one to ask about Zeiss....Ya right! :lol:

Be carefull out there!
Bob

10" F/5 Coast Inst. Treckerscope

#3 Glassthrower

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 09:24 PM

You never know what someone has sitting out in their garage or storage shed collecting dust! I guess if one can afford the asking price, then one can afford the shipping charges from the Netherlands to the US! ...

FWIW, I wouldn't mind having that scope restored and put in a Sirius observatory in my backyard.

Clear dark skies...

MIkeG

#4 blandp11

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 09:31 PM

Even more disturbing was the Hitler remark. I don't think many people would be more inclined to buy a scope because a monster like Hitler had one.

Philip

A red flag always goes up in my mind, whenever the seller says something like "of course I know nothing about this thing"... IMHO this is a way to cover themselves, nothing more!



#5 Bob W6PU

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 09:55 PM

IMHO, in less you was raised in the wilds of Borneo, and in fact have the object for sale over there, then I say that any half educated person KNOWS that something like a beautiful old microscope, or camera, or telescope is valuable, and would ask knowledgeable friends, for advice about it!

Of course there is always the story of the"little old lady" who has a mint 1930s auto, up on blocks, sitting in her barn, and just wants to get rid of it...it does happen, but never to me! :roflmao:

I just hope that some U.S buyer dosen't find that this telescope has a worthless hunk of bottle glass for an objective!

Are you feeling lucky, well are you?....Dirty Harry

Bob...paranoid in New Mexico :drool5:

#6 Glassthrower

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 10:24 PM

The Hitler reference did make me raise an eyebrow and a red flag.

And the seller's apparent total lack of knowledge could be sincere or it could be an act to cover themselves when the buyer finds out the objective is made from a salvaged porthole glass and the eyepieces are cats-eye marbles.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

#7 trainsktg

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 11:20 PM

If that's a 6" scope, the focuser must be 3" in diameter and the EPs near 2". I think the seller included the dew shield in his tube length and lens diameter measurements. It looks more like a 4" refractor to me, especially looking at its size compared to the automobile and the 8 foot garage door. I guess we'll see when and if the details are posted.

In any case, it looks to be very nice.

Keith

#8 trainsktg

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 11:35 PM

Well, I just sent my questions to the seller. I guess its put up or shut up time.

Keith(It still looks too dang small to me.)

#9 trainsktg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:11 AM

Well, new pictures of the scope are up this morning. No answers to my questions though. More and more this looks like a 4" f15. If you back-calculate the focal length based on the EPs and powers shown on them (in this case, I used the 12.5mm ortho, listed as 125x in one of the pictures) you get a focal length of 1562mm, or f15 if for a a 4" scope.

The red-flag statements initially mentioned about the seller claiming total ignorance might come into play if someone thinks they are getting a 6" Zeiss and wind up with a much smaller one.

Keith (of course, I could be over-analyzing)

#10 trainsktg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:16 AM

Back again,

I just noticed that the two pictures I mentioned earlier that gave a pretty good view of the scope next to the car and garage door are gone. My earlier calculations are correct. He lists the focal length as 156cm as stamped on the scope, but still refusus to give the diameter of the lens as listed, and continues to stick with his 16cm as the 'diameter of the tube'.

In a private response to my questions, the seller says that his garage door is 5 meters high and the photo was taken with a 10-22mm wide angle lens...Has anyone ever seen a 16 foot high garage door on a house?

Buyer beware.

Keith

#11 Glassthrower

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:11 AM

Has anyone ever seen a 16 foot high garage door on a house?


Might not be a house per se, could be a storage building, old aircraft hangar, etc. But yes, this auction screams CAUTION! I need to go see those new pix now...not that I could afford this beast even if it is not a scam.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

#12 trainsktg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:33 AM

True, it could be a shed or a large detached RV storage building. However, look at the height of the fusebox (literally fuses in this case) on the wall behind and to the left of the scope. The tops of those in almost all installations are between 6 and 6.5 feet. Meaning a 6 foot person would stand head-high to the top of the mount. If its 6", its a 6" f9.75 and its way too skinny for that. My 5.5" f 10.45 is proportionately much 'fatter' than this one, and look how small the 1/25" EP is on mine compared to its tube, which is 7" in diameter.

I don't think its a scam per se, but I don't think it is being portrayed in an above-the-board manner. 7 to 8 thousand probably would be a reasonable final price in any case.

Keith (OK, I'm done analyzing this sucker. I've spent way too much time on something I can't possibly hope to own anyway. :bawling: :grin:)

Attached Thumbnails

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#13 Glassthrower

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:54 AM

Keith -

I am going to drop that microscope ep in the mail before friday. Probably thursday. I'll PM you when it's in the mail.

Clear dark Zeiss skies...

MikeG

#14 rwiederrich

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:48 PM

True, it could be a shed or a large detached RV storage building. However, look at the height of the fusebox (literally fuses in this case) on the wall behind and to the left of the scope. The tops of those in almost all installations are between 6 and 6.5 feet. Meaning a 6 foot person would stand head-high to the top of the mount. If its 6", its a 6" f9.75 and its way too skinny for that. My 5.5" f 10.45 is proportionately much 'fatter' than this one, and look how small the 1/25" EP is on mine compared to its tube, which is 7" in diameter.

I don't think its a scam per se, but I don't think it is being portrayed in an above-the-board manner. 7 to 8 thousand probably would be a reasonable final price in any case.

Keith (OK, I'm done analyzing this sucker. I've spent way too much time on something I can't possibly hope to own anyway. :bawling: :grin:)


Keithster.

I checked out the site, and I think it may be a 4",or 5", since I doubt the apparent aperture is actually 6". Still, the scope appears to be intact. Many times the objective within, and the cell itself was measured, not just the actual glass aperture.

The reference to Hitler didn't come off as offensive, but more as a historical jesture, to validate the sellers understanding of its relative historical significance.

Just because Hitler may have owned a scope of this nature, doesn't mean the scope or any thing associated with it retains any evil that he projected. Heck, if he had any kind a brain, he couldn't help but admire, and desire quality astronomical instrements. :smirk:

On another note, I would be interested in how the seller aquired the scope, and if they are so *Ignorant* to its value, how did they arrive at the asking price :question:

The buyer could easily contact the University that is mentioned and have a representative be their advocate.

From the images I have seen, it is a great scope, and worthy of restoration, and permenant mounting.

Rob(but of course, what do I know)

#15 Refractor6

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 04:53 PM

Just funny it doesn't look like a 6" refractor most likely a 4". The inscription on the lens cell reads f=156 cm the focal length of the scope which makes sense. A little further to the left in the picture would be the true indication of the aperature in mm's inscribed i'm sure:


http://cgi.ebay.com/...bayphotohosting



-------------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP

#16 rwiederrich

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 05:10 PM

Just funny it doesn't look like a 6" refractor most likely a 4". The inscription on the lens cell reads f=156 cm the focal length of the scope which makes sense. A little further to the left in the picture would be the true indication of the aperature in mm's inscribed i'm sure:


http://cgi.ebay.com/...bayphotohosting



-------------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP


Regardless of the seller's claim, I agree with you, I think it more a 4", 5" maybe. Notice the chair in the foreground?
Now when I put a chair that close to my 6"(actual size), the OTA is much larger, and since I doubt that coning the tube to follow the light cone wasn't done, but using a single diameter tube.

Has anyone found how he aquired the scope without knowing anything about it? Was it a gift, did he inherit it, did it fall off the back of a truck???????
Logic dictates that if you (GET) a scope, you know why you got it, and the nature/spects of the instrument.

Unless it fell of the back of a truck, and bounced in your garage.... :crazy: With a picture of relatives who were owned by facsist dictators....

Rob :foreheadslap:

#17 Refractor6

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 05:27 PM

Just funny it doesn't look like a 6" refractor most likely a 4". The inscription on the lens cell reads f=156 cm the focal length of the scope which makes sense. A little further to the left in the picture would be the true indication of the aperature in mm's inscribed i'm sure:


http://cgi.ebay.com/...bayphotohosting



-------------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP


Regardless of the seller's claim, I agree with you, I think it more a 4", 5" maybe. Notice the chair in the foreground?
Now when I put a chair that close to my 6"(actual size), the OTA is much larger, and since I doubt that coning the tube to follow the light cone wasn't done, but using a single diameter tube.

Has anyone found how he aquired the scope without knowing anything about it? Was it a gift, did he inherit it, did it fall off the back of a truck???????
Logic dictates that if you (GET) a scope, you know why you got it, and the nature/spects of the instrument.

Unless it fell of the back of a truck, and bounced in your garage.... :crazy: With a picture of relatives who were owned by facsist dictators....

Rob :foreheadslap:




Hi Rob,

My 152 f/8 refractor OTA is sitting on a piece of furniture in the living room well i'm making some adjustments to the mount and legs as I write this and it looks bigger than the photo at least in tube width. The lens shade has an outer measurement of 206mm on the 152 f/8. I think he measured the outer diameter of the lens shade on the Zeiss and left it at that {160mm}. So like you say a 4" or maybe a 4.5"/5" with some uncertain history on how it was aquired.



-----------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6/45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP

#18 rwiederrich

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 05:52 PM

Just funny it doesn't look like a 6" refractor most likely a 4". The inscription on the lens cell reads f=156 cm the focal length of the scope which makes sense. A little further to the left in the picture would be the true indication of the aperature in mm's inscribed i'm sure:


http://cgi.ebay.com/...bayphotohosting



-------------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP


Regardless of the seller's claim, I agree with you, I think it more a 4", 5" maybe. Notice the chair in the foreground?
Now when I put a chair that close to my 6"(actual size), the OTA is much larger, and since I doubt that coning the tube to follow the light cone wasn't done, but using a single diameter tube.

Has anyone found how he aquired the scope without knowing anything about it? Was it a gift, did he inherit it, did it fall off the back of a truck???????
Logic dictates that if you (GET) a scope, you know why you got it, and the nature/spects of the instrument.

Unless it fell of the back of a truck, and bounced in your garage.... :crazy: With a picture of relatives who were owned by facsist dictators....

Rob :foreheadslap:




Hi Rob,

My 152 f/8 refractor OTA is sitting on a piece of furniture in the living room well i'm making some adjustments to the mount and legs as I write this and it looks bigger than the photo at least in tube width. The lens shade has an outer measurement of 206mm on the 152 f/8. I think he measured the outer diameter of the lens shade on the Zeiss and left it at that {160mm}. So like you say a 4" or maybe a 4.5"/5" with some uncertain history on how it was aquired.



-----------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6/45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP


I also think that the seller was unknowingly setting himself up. Though he may be unknowledgeable about these things(the ZEISS), he failed to gather that there are those among us(folks like yourself), who have been around scopes long enough to identify aparent aperature just by the scope itself. I agree with you, when you say that most likely he measured the cell, and called that the lens.

If you know anything, you can deduce that a 160mm scope is a 6" scope cause the actual aperture IS 6", 152mm, while part of the objective is masked by the retaining portion of the cell, making the lens actually 152mm. But only 152mm is showing. that is why if your scope is a 152mm, most likely part of that dimension is masked by the cell housing, making the 152, actually a 140mm. :help:

With this knowledge in hand, we can conclude that this scope is most likely a 4" with a 6" cell, with a 1520mm FL, making it an F15.... :smirk:

Further observation will leed us to conclude that if someone is willing to sell an old scope for 10 G's, they know *something* about it.

What I want to know is what they know about its coming into their possession. How, why?

Rob :question:

#19 Refractor6

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 06:16 PM

Rob my 152 has a clear aperature of 152mm's measured across the middle of it's cell from the rubber collar behind the retaining ring but has a dewshield attached to an actual wider cell with a outer measurement of 206 mm's. So I don't call it a 206mm scope like this seller has appeared to do with the Zeiss scope with a lens shield outer measurement of 160 mm. This info he's given us leaves us to speculate on it's true aperature if this is what he's done.



------------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP

#20 jouster

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 07:54 PM

While I agree that history's most notorious dictator having one doesn't reflect poorly on the telescope, I certainly don't think I'd mention the fact if I was trying to get $10k for it on ebay.....

#21 trainsktg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:11 PM

...especially since it is questionable to call the scope at Berghof similar to the one offered on eBay. It seems unnecessary to include this information in the body of the description. The Breghof scope is larger, on a wooden tripod, and although it most certainly is a Zeiss scope, this is impossible to tell with 100% certainty. Now, if this was THE Berghof scope, it would fetch many more times what he is asking for it, I'm sure. Items owned by notorious people usually command alot of bread...Capone's machine gun, Jack the Ripper's knife, the Spear of Longinus, etc, etc.

Keith

#22 refractory

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:22 PM

Maybe it was simply an awkwardly worded veiled reference to the German Equatorial Mount? Had the war gone differently, they might have ended up with a number of Equatorial Mounts (in Africa, for instance...). And cheap optics would be imported to Germany and Japan from the US. Work makes you Free (or almost...).

Jess Tauber

#23 blandp11

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:35 PM

The reason the reference is so odious is that the taste of Hitler is being used to make one desire the scope much like the "be like Mike" ads touted the taste of Mr. Jordan. Who in their right mind wants to be like Hitler? Bah, hope the seller stubs their big toe really badly on that steel pier as punishment for their bad taste.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread as Godwin's law has been invoked. :)

Philip

#24 rwiederrich

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:43 PM

Rob my 152 has a clear aperature of 152mm's measured across in it's cell but has a dewshield with a outer measurement of 206 mm's. So I don't call it a 206mm scope like this seller has appeared to do with the Zeiss scope with a lens shield outer measurement of 160 mm. This info he's given us leaves us to speculate on it's true aperature if this is what he's done.



------------------

Stan

Takahashi FS-102 NSV
Antares 152 f/8 prototype
Antares 152 f/6.5
Antares 127 f/6.45 prototype
Orion 9x63 mini giants
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP



Right, I see what you are getting at. :grin:

Can someone axe him to measure the glass from side to side??

Rob(while they're axin him how he got it) :grin:

#25 rwiederrich

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:50 PM

The reason the reference is so odious is that the taste of Hitler is being used to make one desire the scope much like the "be like Mike" ads touted the taste of Mr. Jordan. Who in their right mind wants to be like Hitler? Bah, hope the seller stubs their big toe really badly on that steel pier as punishment for their bad taste.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread as Godwin's law has been invoked. :)

Philip


I personally think we're making a bigger thing about this then is necessary. Different cultures, different offences.
I'm sure nothing harmful was intended by the remark.

It is a cool scope regardless.

Rob(but what do I know about *cool* scopes)


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