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Reliable connection between ASI6200 and Raspberry Pi

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#1 Palmito

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 04:05 AM

Hi All,

 

 

I got an ASI6200 back in September.

 

It worked without any flaws with the following setup:
- ASI6200 and ASI120 connected with 0.5m high quality USB3 cables to a powered USB HUB.
- A high quality passive 3m USB3 cable from the powered HUB to my Raspberry Pi 4.

 

In December I decided to have the Raspberry Pi sit on the scope. Since then I have encountered major connectivity issues. The setup was:
- ASI6200 and ASI174 (new camera) connected with 1m (also tried with the previous 0.5m cables) high quality USB3 cables to a powered USB HUB.
- A high quality passive 0.3m USB3 cable from the powered HUB to my Raspberry Pi 4.

 

I have tried everything, including trying another Raspberry Pi, reinstalled OS, used one power supply for each component (ASI6200, Powered USB HUB and RPi).
Also I reverted to the previous setup, but from that point it didn't work anymore either (maybe the ASI174 is causing issues the ASI120 is not)

 

The only thing that worked was replacing the powered USB HUB with a passive HUB.

As I need power from the previous HUB, I have now two HUBS sitting on the scope, which is not a long term solution for me.

 

 

So I have been looking for a replacement HUB. I was using a TP-Link UH720 HUB, which is known for its great compatibility with astronomy gear.

I have spoken with Pegasus Astro, as their Pocket PowerBox Advance would fit my needs.
They explained that there are issues with ZWO cameras because of non-standard implementation of the USB stack, in particular it seems impedance is not adapted like it should.
They think it should work but cannot guarantee it.

I honestly couldn't care less about a partial implementation of the USB stack. The prices are great and I suppose that is one reason for it. But I need it to work.
 

 

So are anyone of you using an ASI6200 with a Raspberry Pi? Possibly using a Pegasus astro hub?

 

Many thanks for your inputs!



#2 astrokeith

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 05:05 AM

There may be issues with the ZWO cameras, but its also use of hubs that creates most problems.

 

Power delivery is one thing - it really is best to not power kit from USB if you can help it. The RPi is only cable of 1.2A across all 4 ports.

 

The RPi has a hub inside, and handles USB2 & USB3 data in a perhaps strange way. The two USB3 ports will channel USB3 traffic direct to the PCie bus, and this is your best hope. I have two ASI120MM-S plugged into the 2 USB3 ports and can maintain very fast downloads. I've never had an issue.

 

TP-Link is a good make, but who know what they have done to try and provide so many USB3 ports!

 

I use my ASI cameras directly from Python and can limit the USB traffic speed (but I dont!). Is this an option on what ever packages you are using?



#3 Palmito

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 05:14 AM

There may be issues with the ZWO cameras, but its also use of hubs that creates most problems.

 

Power delivery is one thing - it really is best to not power kit from USB if you can help it. The RPi is only cable of 1.2A across all 4 ports.

 

The RPi has a hub inside, and handles USB2 & USB3 data in a perhaps strange way. The two USB3 ports will channel USB3 traffic direct to the PCie bus, and this is your best hope. I have two ASI120MM-S plugged into the 2 USB3 ports and can maintain very fast downloads. I've never had an issue.

 

TP-Link is a good make, but who know what they have done to try and provide so many USB3 ports!

 

I use my ASI cameras directly from Python and can limit the USB traffic speed (but I dont!). Is this an option on what ever packages you are using?

 

Many thanks for your input.

 

Yes I suspected power delivery, but tried with a power supply dedicated to each powered device.

 

You're right a "single" USB hub can only provide 4 ports. In order to have 7 on the TP-Link it is in fact a daisy chain of two hubs.

I have mapped the USB routes and HUB and was able to determine which plug is connected only through one hub.

 

I should have mentioned, that a direct connection to the two USB3 ports on the RPi using 0.5m cables didn't work either.

 

INDI driver allows to throttle USB bandwidth and is set to the minimum of 40 out of 100 for both cameras.



#4 Noah4x4

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 07:26 AM

This saga mimics my experiences with USB hubs/cable and high resolution, large sensor, data greedy cameras, albeit not with Raspberry Pi.   

 

I wasted ££££'s on ever more expensive, ever higher quality 'active' cables and 'powered hubs' and dismally failed for some months. Your ASI6200 is a full frame 62 Megapixel camera (I am envious!). My most demanding camera is merely 16 Megapixel and yet I had grief. My cameras emit around 48Mb frames, lord knows what file size a 62Mb ASI6200 produces to be squeezed down USB, a task requiring reliable power, notably for USB3.0 that works over surprisingly short distances. Simply extending my camera supplied USB3.0 cable from 2.5M to 3.0M was enough to cause grief.

 

It could simply be that the USB voltage of the Raspberry Pi isn't up to the job given the huge data demands of the camera?  But frankly, I found that an i5 Intel NUC was underpowered in multiple respects with my lesser demanding cameras and I didn't enjoy satisfactory performance until I upgraded to an 8th Generation i7 model. I blamed USB cables, WiFi, you name it, I blamed it. I read multiple CN threads that say you can manage AP on minimum computing power. That might be true with previous generations of camera, but the latest generations are far more demanding, notably if you engage in rapidly capturing short exposures and/or live stack. You also mention that "the Indi Driver throttles bandwidth" Microsoft Remote Desktop similarly throttles bandwidth via RemoteFX Desktop. This is to stop a single user choking a commercial network.  I didn't get satisfactory performance over the WiFi element of my Astro gear network until I disabled RemoteFX compression.  I spent ££££'s unnecessarily upgrading my network   without joy until I discovered this.

 

I am not saying you can't run an ASI6200 on Raspberry Pi, simply that it might be your issue. I would first try (test) with a decent laptop and see if that works before spending a fortune on "better" cables and hubs. If OK, you will then know that you need a more powerful computing device (like an 8i7 NUC). Since generally upgrading computing power, all my woes ended (except clouds). 



#5 johnpane

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 07:42 AM

I have an ASI6200 connected directly to a Raspberry Pi 4 Model B using a 6-foot USB 3.0 cable and haven't (yet) experienced problems as long as the camera is powered separately.



#6 Palmito

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:08 PM

This saga mimics my experiences with USB hubs/cable and high resolution, large sensor, data greedy cameras, albeit not with Raspberry Pi.   

 

I wasted ££££'s on ever more expensive, ever higher quality 'active' cables and 'powered hubs' and dismally failed for some months. Your ASI6200 is a full frame 62 Megapixel camera (I am envious!). My most demanding camera is merely 16 Megapixel and yet I had grief. My cameras emit around 48Mb frames, lord knows what file size a 62Mb ASI6200 produces to be squeezed down USB, a task requiring reliable power, notably for USB3.0 that works over surprisingly short distances. Simply extending my camera supplied USB3.0 cable from 2.5M to 3.0M was enough to cause grief.

 

It could simply be that the USB voltage of the Raspberry Pi isn't up to the job given the huge data demands of the camera?  But frankly, I found that an i5 Intel NUC was underpowered in multiple respects with my lesser demanding cameras and I didn't enjoy satisfactory performance until I upgraded to an 8th Generation i7 model. I blamed USB cables, WiFi, you name it, I blamed it. I read multiple CN threads that say you can manage AP on minimum computing power. That might be true with previous generations of camera, but the latest generations are far more demanding, notably if you engage in rapidly capturing short exposures and/or live stack. You also mention that "the Indi Driver throttles bandwidth" Microsoft Remote Desktop similarly throttles bandwidth via RemoteFX Desktop. This is to stop a single user choking a commercial network.  I didn't get satisfactory performance over the WiFi element of my Astro gear network until I disabled RemoteFX compression.  I spent ££££'s unnecessarily upgrading my network   without joy until I discovered this.

 

I am not saying you can't run an ASI6200 on Raspberry Pi, simply that it might be your issue. I would first try (test) with a decent laptop and see if that works before spending a fortune on "better" cables and hubs. If OK, you will then know that you need a more powerful computing device (like an 8i7 NUC). Since generally upgrading computing power, all my woes ended (except clouds). 

 

Ah yes 130Mb files, it takes ekos 10 secs only to process the file after it has been downloaded.

 

Well I was previously using SGP with a windows i7 laptop. So I had a try, it was impossible to connect the camera to SGP, though I got it to work with ASIStudio and that was enough of a test to indicate the camera was working.

 

I really love my PI, it worked like a charm with my ASI1600 but it is true I find it too slow with the 6200 and in the end I waste valuable clear sky time.

So I am seriously thinking of going with an i7 NUC. Thanks for you advise I would have gone i5 or even i3 otherwise.

Such a shame, I spent so much time designing the PI/HUB/SSD bracket, multiple modular cable brackets, and got my cable management to OCD level 4 grin.gif



#7 Palmito

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:19 PM

I have an ASI6200 connected directly to a Raspberry Pi 4 Model B using a 6-foot USB 3.0 cable and haven't (yet) experienced problems as long as the camera is powered separately.

 

I first thought it was a back current travelling back to the Pi, Pegasus Astro thinks it is an impedance issue.
I am starting to think the combination of the ASI6200 and ASI174 might be the issue, impedance wise like Pegasus Astro suggested. Impedance issues with one device can affect the entire network.

 

 

Before it worked without any issues, I had:

ASI120==(20 in)==\

                               ==> Powered USB HUB==(6 ft)==> Pi 4B

ASI6200=(20 in)==/

 

 

What doesn't work now is:

ASI174==(20 in)==\

                               ==> Powered USB HUB==(10 in / 6 ft)==> Pi 4B

ASI6200=(20 in)===/

 

 

What does work now is:

ASI174==(20 in)==\

                               ==> Passive USB HUB==(10 in)==> Pi 4B

ASI6200=(20 in)===/


Edited by Palmito, 28 January 2021 - 06:08 PM.



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