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6" F/5 Objective (from a Cheshire?)

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#51 CltFlyboy

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 12:55 PM

Anyone have suggestions on an optics lab type app/software? I'd like to model this electronically instead of using my T-square and pencils... Haven't done raytracing in quite a few years.



#52 ccwemyss

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 01:25 PM

I buy most of my tubing from Hastings:

https://www.hastings...laneous-tubing/

If you download the order form shipping is less than stated on

the site.

 

Robert

Hastings is great for OTA tubing. I've also used Intake Hoses for short, dew shield sized pieces:

 

https://www.intakeho...ght-tubing.html

 

Online Metals, and Metals Depot are good sources for structural sizes, like pier tubing, legs, etc. It used to be that a lot of cities had local suppliers, but that was also when we had more local machine shops. Despite the fact that there was a huge tool-and-die industry here, not to mention auto and gun production, there is virtually nothing left. So I'm very thankful for resources I've learned about here, for materials to go into telescopes and restorations. 

 

Chip W. 


Edited by ccwemyss, 09 February 2021 - 01:48 PM.

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#53 Jeff B

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 10:21 PM

If it is indeed a Jaegers objective and cell ( and it certainly looks like one) it will directly fit into the 7" O.D. Hastings tube.  Just order some extra as the ends can become dented during shipping and extra for your dew shield.

 

Jeff

Attached Thumbnails

  • Objective A.jpg
  • Objective B.jpg

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#54 RichA

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 01:18 AM

Why is God's earth did she do that to the mount??? That's borderline crazy. I'll never understand the mindset of some eBay sellers who shill everything and anything with no knowledge/research into what they have.

 

Thanks for the reference pic and post about the dew shield - I'll definitely look at that now.

The upside of these "estate liquidations" is sometimes you'll get something unique or a bargain.  The downside is fools are often in-charge of disposal.


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#55 CltFlyboy

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 08:04 AM

Jeff, the cell is a bit different - instead of it mounting inside of the tube, they designed this one to mount outside of the tube. Good thing is that it's 6-1/8" ID and thus a 6" tube will fit right inside. You can see what I mean here, the cell is upright in this picture, tube would mount from below.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Jaegers 6 Side View.jpg

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#56 Jeff B

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 10:55 AM

Interesting indeed.  Does the lower, crinkle finished ring screw on to the bottom of the lens cell or is it held in place with those bolts, or, are the bolts used to secure the main tube to that crinkle finish piece and can it be removed?.  What is the O.D of the upper cell portion?

 

I'm curious to see if they may have adapted a Jaegers cell.

 

Jeff



#57 CltFlyboy

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 11:03 AM

If it's screwed together then it's mated extremely well - I can't see visually where the two materials change. Those screws are countersunk and are intended to bolt the lens to the tube as best I can figure from looking at the photos I can find of the old Cheshire OTAs. That does make it a bit easier for me to mount on a tube for sure.


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#58 clamchip

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 11:06 AM

6" tube is 6" OD

I'd use the outside of the cell, the 6-7/8" and go inside 7" tube to the wrinkled larger

section.

Hastings 7" OD is 6-7/8" ID

Hastings now uses a plywood plug in each end of the box, no more dented edges.

My last order the tube was slightly out of round it's entire length, after all it is irrigation

tube. I would recommend writing on your order,

"For a telescope, please check for roundness and no deep scratches or dents if possible, thanks." 

My out of round 5 inch I'm going to use wood blocks and a C clamp and sqeeze the

last 8 inches or so of each end round again, it should be fine.

 

Robert


Edited by clamchip, 10 February 2021 - 11:09 AM.


#59 DAVIDG

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 12:28 PM

  Double check how the lens is placed in the cell.  Don't assume it is  placed in the cell correctly. If it  is flipped you will still get an OK image, especially at low power. I have seen many lens flipped in the cell and no one questioned  how they were mounted.

    It looks to me that the cell was designed so the smooth area would go inside the tube  and someone  decided to mount it the over the tube. If the lens is mounted backwards   you can flip it around so  the wrinkled painted area  now faces the sky and the smooth machined area fits inside a tube. The smooth area gives you a much large surface area to hold the cell and the lens so the optical axis is centered on the mechanical axis of the tube. That will make aligning the optics much more robust and lead to a clean circular sharp stars  

 

           - Dave 



#60 CltFlyboy

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 12:37 PM

Hi Dave - thanks for the suggestion. I'm almost certain that they way I've shown it is the proper orientation - the smooth part holds the dew shield (I'm getting that this week actually). Unless someone purposefully removed the lens from the call like you say then I think this is tight. Check out this picture of what it originally looked like (not this specific lens, a sample pic that was posted).

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cheshire Eagle 3.jpg


#61 DAVIDG

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 01:36 PM

 The scope looks to me as assembled from multiple suppliers of parts , especially with chromed tube.and lens sure looks to be a Jaegers. Just saying  I have been doing this  stuff for a long time and I have seen many scopes assembled in various ways to try to get around a problem but in the process cause other issues.  You never know what was been do to this stuff in the past and you just can't assume it is correct.  I have seen lenses come from the manufacture in the cells backwards. Surplus Shed in the last two years were selling new lens that were installed backwards.  So you might find it easier to find a tube that the cell fits in vs over and flip the elements if they are not already backwards.  As I said if the element are flipped you will still get an OK image. It will not  be a fuzzy mess that won't come to focus and you can be fooled that all is fine. I have seen it multiple times.

 

                   - Dave 


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#62 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 01:45 PM

The crown glass ordinarily goes towards the sky.  It's usually the double convex element in an achromatic objective.


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#63 CltFlyboy

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 02:21 PM

Thanks Dave - I'll definitely check the lens tonight to ensure I know which side is skyward, great point!!

 

John - thanks for validating that, it's been more than a few years since I've done anything like this and was going to ask the easiest way to tell the lens arrangement.

 

I guess that, since it is an achro, the front focus should be measurably different that normal back focus too, corrct?



#64 mattyfatz

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 02:55 PM

I am truly excited! It's been quite a while since I did any type of ATM building but this is pretty simple since it'll be a short tube refractor.

 

Why is God's earth did she do that to the mount??? That's borderline crazy. I'll never understand the mindset of some eBay sellers who shill everything and anything with no knowledge/research into what they have.

 

Thanks for the reference pic and post about the dew shield - I'll definitely look at that now.

Bummer. Too bad she didn’t have someone to advise her.


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#65 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:19 PM

Bummer. Too bad she didn’t have someone to advise her.

There's another thread on that.  Lots won't take advice, and when they ask for it, they are really asking for validation.....jaded here.


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#66 CltFlyboy

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:23 PM

There's another thread on that.  Lots won't take advice, and when they ask for it, they are really asking for validation.....jaded here.

Could not agree more. It's something I don't grok, I guess I'm not wired that way. When I ask for help it means that either I don't know the answer or that I think I do and need someone to tell me where I'm wrong. Those people asking just to refute people are frustrating.

 

I for one appreciate all of you here - thank you for the collective sharing of wisdom with me.



#67 Terra Nova

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:46 PM

Here’s the 6” F5 refractor I had for a few years. It wasn’t a classic but it sure was a lot of fun.

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#68 CltFlyboy

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:53 PM

Here’s the 6” F5 refractor I had for a few years. It wasn’t a classic but it sure was a lot of fun.

Oh MAN that looks nice! Thanks for sharing!

 

I ordered a 24" piece of 6" OD tubing from OnlineMetals today to play with. With an 1/8" wall it should be a bit more rigid than the Hastings irrigation tubes (at 0.083"). And it cost only ~$60 shipped. That'll be a good starting point, we'll see where it goes. Anticipation!!!


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#69 Kasmos

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 06:22 PM

 The scope looks to me as assembled from multiple suppliers of parts , especially with chromed tube.and lens sure looks to be a Jaegers. Just saying  I have been doing this  stuff for a long time and I have seen many scopes assembled in various ways to try to get around a problem but in the process cause other issues.  You never know what was been do to this stuff in the past and you just can't assume it is correct.  I have seen lenses come from the manufacture in the cells backwards. Surplus Shed in the last two years were selling new lens that were installed backwards.  So you might find it easier to find a tube that the cell fits in vs over and flip the elements if they are not already backwards.  As I said if the element are flipped you will still get an OK image. It will not  be a fuzzy mess that won't come to focus and you can be fooled that all is fine. I have seen it multiple times.

 

                   - Dave 

It's a Cheshire, not a ATM put together from parts and the photo in post#60 is the actual scope this lens came from.

The tube is brass and the complete telescope was on Craigslist before it was parted out on ebay.

 

In post #10 I posted links to the parted out scope:

 

https://www.cloudyni...ire/?p=10854483

 

While there is always a chance that the elements in any cell are installed wrong, this is the way that Cheshire mounted the cell.

 

Another member posted these two examples (I believe in the finds thread).

Chesire-6.jpg

 

The Chesire 5 below has a mount closer in design to the scope the lens in question came from.

Cheshire 5.jpg

 

Whether the lens and or the cells were sourced from Jaegers is another question.


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#70 Terra Nova

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 07:20 PM

Oh MAN that looks nice! Thanks for sharing!

 

I ordered a 24" piece of 6" OD tubing from OnlineMetals today to play with. With an 1/8" wall it should be a bit more rigid than the Hastings irrigation tubes (at 0.083"). And it cost only ~$60 shipped. That'll be a good starting point, we'll see where it goes. Anticipation!!!

Online Metals has always done well for me. The reason I like their tubes is that they are aircraft/structural grade aluminum in robust wall thicknesses (.125” and .25”) that don’t dink or dent (unless you drop a wrecking ball on it).


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#71 CltFlyboy

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 09:53 AM

Update: I have a new Al tube coming in this week from Online Metals. And I did win the eBay bid on the dew shield. It was shipped USPS and went from Schenectady to the USPS Springfield MA center - where it sits. I'm getting a bit worried about it getting lost, that's a heck of a long time to make it from the origin to the first stop. Fingers crossed.

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  • JaegersDewShieldShipping.jpg

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#72 ccwemyss

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 01:20 PM

I don't know what the deal is with Springfield. It's my local distribution center. I've had outbound "2-day" packages go there and sit for a week. I had an inbound package from the west coast that went there, then got sent to New Jersey for a few days before it came back and eventually got to me. At least I've never had them lose anything, so the odds are good you'll get it, even though it may take a while. 

 

Chip W. 


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#73 CltFlyboy

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 01:42 PM

I've never had a problem with major delays in the South, I must be lucky. I do have hope that it gets here since it's been scanned.



#74 CltFlyboy

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Posted 18 February 2021 - 11:35 AM

I got the dew shield in, so I'm good there. Seller listed it as "excellent condition, no mars" and it's missing a good portion of the pebbling texture. Not an issue as I'll media blast it and recoat it when it's time.

 

Tube, on the other hand, is lost in UPS land. I'm not in a hurry, but I should have pulled the trigger on this and ordered just a day before - I'd have missed all the WX problems/delays!

 

 

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  • UOSDelayFeb2021.jpg


#75 CltFlyboy

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 12:42 PM

Well UPS-Claus had a present for me today! Things look like they are finally ready to start taking shape...

 

 

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  • Jaegers With Bare Tube 1.jpg

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