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Pity Takahashi owners who are forced to buy other accessories

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#1 RichA

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 04:38 PM

Imagine if you saw a set of generic telescope rings retailing for $200.00.  They fit various scope tubes.  Then, a dealer gets a pair of these rings from a maker, and the maker, who designated a generic ring for Takahashi turns around and charges the dealer $350 a pair for them.  Automatically, the selling price DOUBLES yet it's the SAME RING set!!  Why abuse a Tak owner just because they happen to own an expensive scope??


Edited by RichA, 12 February 2021 - 05:59 PM.

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#2 Supernova74

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 04:56 PM

well becauce thay can get away with it unfortunately put a well known prestigious brand name on product becauce of the brand name thay know that folks will always puchase,that’s the irony of it all regardless if it’s the same or not 


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#3 Pequod

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:00 PM

Same rant applies to anything “special.” Apply the word “wedding” to catering, photos, venue rentals, etc. and just multiply the usual cost by Pi. Why? Because they can. 


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#4 mikeDnight

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:15 PM

It's not just Tak. The new Rowan AZ mount isn't cheap, and at its lowest price it comes with nothing. You've to buy the dovetail plates, counterbalance arm, counterweights & encoders seperately. By the time you've finished its cost you twice as much. In fact the Rowan mount appears to be useless at its lowest price, whereas at least a Tak scope can be held by any tube rings of the right size. You don't have to buy all Tak!


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#5 wrnchhead

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:16 PM

Our parts department is similar. I don't do parts pricing, but 2x the Amazon price for the exact same thing is generally in the ballpark. 


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#6 Supernova74

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:24 PM

I now it sounds crazy I think people would buy the same product technically just becauce deep down it’s has,nt got that seal on it brand name unfortunately that’s how some folks minds work.the reasons why the price is premium is just becauce of the name written on it on the box,that’s the mentality of it all clever business however bad for the consumer.the same would go for a prestigious brand like Bentley exspect the premium price tag let’s say on a battery same product down the road maybe 3 times cheaper.


Edited by Supernova74, 12 February 2021 - 05:26 PM.


#7 Jim Waters

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:29 PM

Same issue with Astro-Physics and Software Bisque stuff.


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#8 Mcloud

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:46 PM

Yeah I believe ego comes into play here. Aftermarket gear side not really take flight back in the day but these days there is little to no need to get robbed after having been robbed.
When I got my new Nikon Aculons I decided to try some digiscoping and saw adapters over one hundred dollars. Me, I just drove up to the $ store and bought some clear zip ties. Digiscoping ready, one dollar.
On the flip side, I don't really see the point of buying a top tier instrument and accessorizing it with cheap gear. If you're going for top shelf, make sure all your optical train, ie diagonal, eyepieces, Barlow's are of good quality. Go ahead and get the optional polar alignment scope or whatever. Just stay away from seven hundred dollar thumb screws just because they are a certain shade of say green or really light green.
As a side note were I wealthy in the truest sense I would have the best of everything. So there is that.

#9 mtminnesota

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:47 PM

It's not just Tak. The new Rowan AZ mount isn't cheap, and at its lowest price it comes with nothing. You've to buy the dovetail plates, counterbalance arm, counterweights & encoders seperately. By the time you've finished its cost you twice as much. In fact the Rowan mount appears to be useless at its lowest price, whereas at least a Tak scope can be held by any tube rings of the right size. You don't have to buy all Tak!

I would argue that it's better to sell a base level item, then let the buyer add only the options they need.  Using your example of the Rowan, an owner of a 100mm or smaller Takahashi who wants manual tracking via the included slow motion cables has no need for a dovetail plate, counterweight, counterweight shaft, or encoders.  Hardly useless.


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#10 RichA

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 06:01 PM

Same issue with Astro-Physics and Software Bisque stuff.

I can understand if the name "Takahashi" was engraved into the side of the rings, it's a "look"  thing.  But a sticker on a plastic bag the rings are in??!



#11 junomike

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 06:06 PM

I totally agree and never was a huge Tak fan due to their over-priced accessories.  My sole venture with a Tak 1.25" Prism was all I needed to equate them to a great CDN band Album.......High Class In Borrowed Shoes.

 

(All IMO of course).



#12 RichA

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 07:09 PM

I totally agree and never was a huge Tak fan due to their over-priced accessories.  My sole venture with a Tak 1.25" Prism was all I needed to equate them to a great CDN band Album.......High Class In Borrowed Shoes.

 

(All IMO of course).

Taks own rings, which are nothing to write home about (cheesy latches) are $800 for the TOA-150 tube.



#13 Tyson M

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 09:19 PM

I think the margins are so slim that they have to do stuff like this.  Low volume output, lots of specific accessories....

 

If you see the same business practice over multiple businesses with different brands in the same hobby, then that is telling...


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#14 t-ara-fan

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 03:04 AM

Lighten up. You should take a million vacations!

 

-- and I forgot how weird they looked on that album cover. Wow!


Edited by t-ara-fan, 13 February 2021 - 03:05 AM.


#15 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:47 AM

Imagine if you saw a set of generic telescope rings retailing for $200.00.  They fit various scope tubes.  Then, a dealer gets a pair of these rings from a maker, and the maker, who designated a generic ring for Takahashi turns around and charges the dealer $350 a pair for them.  Automatically, the selling price DOUBLES yet it's the SAME RING set!!  Why abuse a Tak owner just because they happen to own an expensive scope??

 

Do you have an actual example of the same exact ring, the same diameter etc with one being sold for $200, one being sold for $350 because it is somehow designated Takahashi?

 

Jon


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#16 alphatripleplus

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 10:24 AM

 Automatically, the selling price DOUBLES yet it's the SAME RING set!!  Why abuse a Tak owner just because they happen to own an expensive scope??

As I am not a Tak owner I have never experienced this kind of abuse. I guess I will have to settle for experiencing it  vicariously by reading about it. smile.gif


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#17 epee

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 10:54 AM

Do you have an actual example of the same exact ring, the same diameter etc with one being sold for $200, one being sold for $350 because it is somehow designated Takahashi?

Jon


Yep, sometimes (not saying always but sometimes) the difference is cast versus forged.

Cast can certainly do the job, most of the time, but the failure rate is higher unless quality control is to such a point that it drives the price up.
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#18 Delta608

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 12:55 PM

  Sounds like a severe case of male anatomy envy....blush.gifblush.gif



#19 wrnchhead

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 03:11 PM

This is the area where knowledge is everything. If you have the knowledge to apply your money where it counts and understand the shortcomings and strengths of the whole system and it's components, you come out ahead. 


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#20 DavidNealMinnick

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 02:21 AM

Imagine if you saw a set of generic telescope rings retailing for $200.00.  They fit various scope tubes.  Then, a dealer gets a pair of these rings from a maker, and the maker, who designated a generic ring for Takahashi turns around and charges the dealer $350 a pair for them.  Automatically, the selling price DOUBLES yet it's the SAME RING set!!  Why abuse a Tak owner just because they happen to own an expensive scope??

 

Is this something you just made up? Or do you have an actual example to show us?


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#21 greenjuice

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 03:19 AM

It's not just Tak. The new Rowan AZ mount isn't cheap, and at its lowest price it comes with nothing. You've to buy the dovetail plates, counterbalance arm, counterweights & encoders seperately. By the time you've finished its cost you twice as much. In fact the Rowan mount appears to be useless at its lowest price, whereas at least a Tak scope can be held by any tube rings of the right size. You don't have to buy all Tak!

Yes but the Rowan is worth it. Having used it for several months I can honestly say it is a beautifully designed precision piece of gear worth every penny of your hard earned cash.

The accessories are not that expensive either, especially compared to Tak stuff.

Also you don’t necessarily have to use their accessories, for example the dovetail plates can be swapped out with generic plates of your choice.


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#22 teashea

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 02:51 PM

Yep, sometimes (not saying always but sometimes) the difference is cast versus forged.

Cast can certainly do the job, most of the time, but the failure rate is higher unless quality control is to such a point that it drives the price up.

That is the point.  Takahashi's quality control --- quite amazing.

 

Taks.jpg


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#23 RichA

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 03:36 PM

Do you have an actual example of the same exact ring, the same diameter etc with one being sold for $200, one being sold for $350 because it is somehow designated Takahashi?

 

Jon

The normal rings are $170, according to a couple sellers.  Don't about the drilled hole bolt pattern.



#24 BRCoz

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:50 PM

About 20 years ago I bought a new FS102 and about died when I wanted the Takahashi FS-102/FS-128 f/6 reducer.  I was like that is higher than a giraffe's butt. 

I wanted to use the scope for AP and visual.  Also bought the TAK 2IN. visual back.  I bought some non TAK rings and have enjoyed the scope ever since.

I didn't buy the Takahashi camera angle adjuster because I could rotate the scope in the rings when needed.

I got out of doing AP around 2006.  Maybe some day I will give it another go.  

 

If you want cheap buy cheap.  If you want quality spend the money and not complain. 

That is how I look at it.  


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#25 LDW47

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 07:44 PM

About 20 years ago I bought a new FS102 and about died when I wanted the Takahashi FS-102/FS-128 f/6 reducer.  I was like that is higher than a giraffe's butt. 

I wanted to use the scope for AP and visual.  Also bought the TAK 2IN. visual back.  I bought some non TAK rings and have enjoyed the scope ever since.

I didn't buy the Takahashi camera angle adjuster because I could rotate the scope in the rings when needed.

I got out of doing AP around 2006.  Maybe some day I will give it another go.  

 

If you want cheap buy cheap.  If you want quality spend the money and not complain. 

That is how I look at it.  

You know the funny thing is the great astronomers that bought the cheaper but well built, great performing whatevers have never complained of failure, of not working, of disappointment, they are just plain happy with the substantial $’s they saved all still in their bulging pockets ! With the spend a lot more guys, for the same performance, all I ever see is various ways of grasping at straws to justify buying these name stamped on the side parts that in most cases don’t do any better other than maybe color coordination ! Thats all for 3-4x the price ?? Maybe I’m just plain wrong but ......... ?




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