632 replies to this topic

[Jeff Morgan]

Also, it apparently wants me to upload information about my computer.

 

I am not a Windows expert, I only have a PC to run NINA, everything else I do on Mac. So I have no idea where to find what it wants me to upload.

Edited by Jeff Morgan, 18 March 2025 - 03:55 PM.

[Corsica]

I am having a difficult time with these product names and nomenclature.

 

There is a SkySurveyor V6 shortcut on my desktop.

 

I purchased the 8-10" Reflector Unlimited model 450S and it does not work.

 

The portal says I have no license, although my credit card has most definitely been charged.

 

Is there something else I need to buy?

Dear Jeff, 

 

Thank you for your order. 

 

SkySurveyor is the name of the suite that includes SkyWave, SkyGuard, and SkyGuide. All of them are under the same universal installer, which is why the default shortcut on the desktop is named accordingly. You can rename it as you like using the shortcut's contextual menu. After installation, the first time you run the application, you will be asked which product you want to set up. In your case, select SkyWave.

Here is a link to the documentation for the portal, installation, license, and model management, which I recommend reading first:

https://www.innovati...lManagement.pdf

 

The next link is the SKW/SKG documentation, which is also available in SkyWave using the "?" icon on the top right of the GUI or the F1 key for contextual help:

https://www.innovati...llimatorCT.html

 

When purchasing a model, it may take a few minutes before it appears on the portal. If you can see your model on the portal with the red flag not activated, this means it is available to be linked to an instrument compatible with the model's parameters. Checking your account, I see that you have a model for a reflector telescope with an aperture of 203 to 305 mm available, which has not yet been linked to any SkyWave instrument. 

 

In SkyWave, when you request to create the actual model and download it (using the request and download button next to the NN model field) from the instrument page for your telescope, you will be provided with a list of all available (unlinked) models compatible with this telescope. In your case, the only one available is the 203 to 305 mm model. 

 

If you do not see any models, please ensure that your aperture is within the model range and that your central obstruction is correctly set. The central obstruction (CO) is the ratio of the secondary obstruction diameter to the telescope aperture, expressed as a percentage. When set to zero, it tells SkyWave that you have a refractor. For any reflector model, it must be between 30% and 55%. The default value is set to zero. If the CO is not set correctly, your model will not appear in the list of available valid models for your scope on the portal. Also SKW will not work with an incorrect CO value.

Edited by Corsica, 18 March 2025 - 05:06 PM.

[Corsica]

Also, it apparently wants me to upload information about my computer.

 

I am not a Windows expert, I only have a PC to run NINA, everything else I do on Mac. So I have no idea where to find what it wants me to upload.

Dear Jeff, 

 

I am not sure I fully understand your question. Could you be more precise or provide a screenshot? 

SkyWave does not upload information from your machine. It only checks if the current machine ID matches the one used when the initial license (and model) was created. With the IF Portal, you can migrate models if you want to use another machine. All you need to do is unlink the models in the portal from the current machine and request new ones after installing and registering SkyWave on the new machine.

[Jeff Morgan]

Dear Jeff, 

 

Thank you for your order. 

 

SkySurveyor is the name of the suite that includes SkyWave, SkyGuard, and SkyGuide. All of them are under the same universal installer, which is why the default shortcut on the desktop is named accordingly. You can rename it as you like using the shortcut's contextual menu. After installation, the first time you run the application, you will be asked which product you want to set up. In your case, select SkyWave.

Here is a link to the documentation for the portal, installation, license, and model management, which I recommend reading first:

https://www.innovati...lManagement.pdf

 

The next link is the SKW/SKG documentation, which is also available in SkyWave using the "?" icon on the top right of the GUI or the F1 key for contextual help:

https://www.innovati...llimatorCT.html

 

When purchasing a model, it may take a few minutes before it appears on the portal. If you can see your model on the portal with the red flag not activated, this means it is available to be linked to an instrument compatible with the model's parameters. Checking your account, I see that you have a model for a reflector telescope with an aperture of 203 to 305 mm available, which has not yet been linked to any SkyWave instrument. 

 

In SkyWave, when you request to create the actual model and download it (using the request and download button next to the NN model field) from the instrument page for your telescope, you will be provided with a list of all available (unlinked) models compatible with this telescope. In your case, the only one available is the 203 to 305 mm model. 

 

If you do not see any models, please ensure that your aperture is within the model range and that your central obstruction is correctly set. The central obstruction (CO) is the ratio of the secondary obstruction diameter to the telescope aperture, expressed as a percentage. When set to zero, it tells SkyWave that you have a refractor. For any reflector model, it must be between 30% and 55%. The default value is set to zero. If the CO is not set correctly, your model will not appear in the list of available valid models for your scope on the portal. Also SKW will not work with an incorrect CO value.

 

If I am understanding you correctly - once I get connected to the scope the red NotActivated tab should change?

[Jeff Morgan]

Dear Jeff, 

 

I am not sure I fully understand your question. Could you be more precise or provide a screenshot? 

SkyWave does not upload information from your machine. It only checks if the current machine ID matches the one used when the initial license (and model) was created. With the IF Portal, you can migrate models if you want to use another machine. All you need to do is unlink the models in the portal from the current machine and request new ones after installing and registering SkyWave on the new machine.

 

This is what I am seeing when under my account I click the Models tab.

Attached Thumbnails

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[Corsica]

This is what I am seeing when under my account I click the Models tab.

Dear Jeff, 

 

What you see is your model in your IF Portal account, ready to be linked to an instrument in SKW. This is just information about your products. Some of the fields are empty because you have not yet linked this model to any machine. You do not need to enter any data; these fields cannot be edited and will be updated once you have linked this model to your machine and SKW license.There is nothing else to do in the Portal—you are ready to request and download a model within SKW (once connected to the internet and logged in with your credentials in SKW. Those are the same than for your online IF account). 

 

Assuming you have set up SkyWave on your machine (not SKG), you do not need to connect to any hardware, as SKW only processes image files. All you need to do is create an instrument in SKW for your telescope, fill in all the fields, and then use the "Request and Download" button next to the "NN model" field to start the build and download of your model. When you click this button, you should see your model in the list, assuming your telescope aperture and CO are correct. For further details, please refer to: 

 

https://www.innovati...lManagement.pdf

 

Once your model has been built and successfully downloaded in SKW, you can use the "Connect" button in SKW to connect to your instrument and start analysing images taken from your astro-imaging software, like NINA. We recommend using FITS files. Here is a link to the documentation (help) section about the SKW CT collimation tool. There is useful information and tips about how to take the right defocused images:

 

https://www.innovati...Collimator.html

 

Edited by Corsica, 18 March 2025 - 06:18 PM.

[KTAZ]

Need some advice. 10" RC.

 

I've burned lots of credits, mostly due to my own ignorance, but I'm not sure if there is much more to gain working on Astigmatism. Here is what my last set of images scored:

 

 

I've done 3 rounds of adjusting M1 for Coma and M2 for Astig, but I don't see an easy "pull" to even out the numbers shown above. How close should they be?

 

Looking for experience based opinions.

[Rasfahan]

How Is your coma scor now? This is an incremental process. I usually need at least four passes when I do it by analyzing the star field myself. I only use SKW for the final, minute correction. Don’t correct all at once but do it step by step.

 

Is this with or without the reducer? If without, this is probably as good as it‘s going to get. If with the reducer you should be able to eliminate astig totally in the field. Check backfocus.

[KTAZ]

How Is your coma scor now? This is an incremental process. I usually need at least four passes when I do it by analyzing the star field myself. I only use SKW for the final, minute correction. Don’t correct all at once but do it step by step.

 

Is this with or without the reducer? If without, this is probably as good as it‘s going to get. If with the reducer you should be able to eliminate astig totally in the field. Check backfocus.

This is without the reducer and the Coma score on a centered star is 10.0. I am also thinking I'll attach my y reducer today and call it good

[Corsica]

This is without the reducer and the Coma score on a centered star is 10.0. I am also thinking I'll attach my y reducer today and call it good

You may want to consider updating to the latest SKW version 6. It supports balanced astigmatism collimation with a related score using the same collimation tool. Here is a link to the documentation with more information and some tips: 

 

https://www.innovati...Collimator.html

 

Your models and credits are supported with version 6. SKW should automatically find your current license; if not, you can load it manually. However, do not register a new license, as this will make your existing models unusable — models are both machine and license dependent. If you face any issues, feel free to email me anytime.

 

With the new website and IF portal, you'll have the opportunity to update SKW (version 6 and up) directly from our server, assuming you have (or create) an account with IF and an internet connection on the machine running SKW.

 

For versions older than 6, you need to first manually uninstall SKW before installing version 6. 

SKW and SkyGuide & SkyGuard (SKG) are part of the SkySurveyor suite. There is now a unified installer available for download from the IF Portal using your account. If you don't have an account, just create one — it's free. Here is a document explaining the new IF portal, license, and model management — I strongly suggest reading this first:

 

https://www.innovati...lManagement.pdf

 

To log in or create your IF Portal account, go here: 

 

https://portal.innov...sforesight.com/

 

Important note: when possible, I recommend collimating the scope without the corrector (field lens). This avoids the risk of introducing aberrations from a possible tilt of the corrector’s optical axis relative to the scope’s axis.

Edited by Corsica, 23 March 2025 - 10:32 AM.

[KTAZ]

Hi Gaston;

 

I am using V6. I just read through the documentation on Field Analysis and wish to thank you for giving me more work to do! 

 

I do not have the software available to open right now, but hopefully you can answer a few questions from the doucmentation for me.

 

1. For the Sensor Tilt, I see the instruction to use the "Collimation Screws" box to identify number of screws and angle. I have set Mirror 1 and 2 to reflect my M1 and M2; is there a Mirror 3 available to set for my tilt corrector?
2. Another statement in the next paragraph states "...it is recommended to reduce the tilt further until the cursor is within the green zone using the collmation screws". Just a suggestion; this could cause confusion and have somebody reaching for M1 or M2. Perhaps a change to be specific about using the "tilt/tip screws" would be better

I wish I had read this before burning at least 50 credits last weekend doing stars individually. My bad. 

[joergsflow]

 

I am using V6. I just read through the documentation on Field Analysis and wish to thank you for giving me more work to do! 

 

I do not have the software available to open right now, but hopefully you can answer a few questions from the doucmentation for me.

 

1. For the Sensor Tilt, I see the instruction to use the "Collimation Screws" box to identify number of screws and angle. I have set Mirror 1 and 2 to reflect my M1 and M2; is there a Mirror 3 available to set for my tilt corrector?
2. Another statement in the next paragraph states "...it is recommended to reduce the tilt further until the cursor is within the green zone using the collmation screws". Just a suggestion; this could cause confusion and have somebody reaching for M1 or M2. Perhaps a change to be specific about using the "tilt/tip screws" would be better

I wish I had read this before burning at least 50 credits last weekend doing stars individually. My bad. 

@gaston @KTAZ:

I just ran exactly into the same question because after I have good alignment of M1 and M2 with my RC12" but the field balance seems to be completely out of wack. So I was wondering which screws to "turn" now. In SKW it was all somehow related to screws M2 but I actually expected to turn the screws on the tilt plate in the back of my RC scope plate. Am I right?

And if yes: Which screw will I actually have to use? Will I simply use the one that is in a straight line with one of the M2-screw-alignments from the first three steps of my colimation?

Edited by joergsflow, 27 March 2025 - 06:38 AM.

[Corsica]

@gaston @KTAZ:

I just ran exactly into the same question because after I have good alignment of M1 and M2 with my RC12" but the field balance seems to be completely out of wack. So I was wondering which screws to "turn" now. In SKW it was all somehow related to screws M2 but I actually expected to turn the screws on the tilt plate in the back of my RC scope plate. Am I right?

And if yes: Which screw will I actually have to use? Will I simply use the one that is in a straight line with one of the M2-screw-alignments from the first three steps of my colimation?

In the SKW Collimator tool, when you select "Sensor Tilt", the mirror selection becomes unavailable (greyed out) because correcting tilt requires an external mechanical tilt adjustment device—either at the visual back of the telescope or closer to the camera/filter wheel. You should not use either mirror for this. Mirror adjustment screws should be only used for telescope collimation (making both optical axes congruent).

 

The key idea is to first collimate the telescope using the mirrors, since SKW allows collimation with a tilt sensor, and then correct any mechanical tilt affecting the sensor with an external tilt/tip control device. This tilt can come from various sources such as the external focuser, the optical train, the camera/sensor tilt, or a combination of these.

It’s important to understand that if your telescope is well collimated but you still see tilt, then you need an external mechanical device to adjust it.

 

Even though mirror selection is disabled in the Collimation Screw panel when "Sensor Tilt" is selected, you can still enable the collimation screw overlay tool by checking the "Collimation Screws" box (see below). You can choose either 3 or 4 screws, depending on your mechanical tilt/tip control device—and of course, the angular position of those screws relative to the image processed by SKW, just as with mirror collimation.

 

 

The SKW Collimator tool, when set to "Sensor Tilt", provides a score based on the telescope’s CFZ (Critical Focus Zone). A score of 100% means that, at the worst location in the field (indicated by the cursor), the tilt-induced defocus equals the CFZ. Ideally, you want to stay below that—typically in the green zone—meaning the tilt is significantly less than the CFZ.

 

P.S. I’m using the latest version of SKW (6.27), but it should be similar for any version 6 or higher.

 

Edited by Corsica, 27 March 2025 - 08:22 AM.

[joergsflow]

Expected that. Okay, got it.
So in your screenshot I would look for the screw (e.g.  on the backplate or camera tilt plate etc.) but at the similar angle according to M2/M1 screw No.3 
and do what "Pull"? - or Push?

[KTAZ]

Hello all: can anybody tell me if the software is effective with light cloud cover (5-10%) since finding perfectly clear weekends to calibrate can be difficult?

[Corsica]

Hello all: can anybody tell me if the software is effective with light cloud cover (5-10%) since finding perfectly clear weekends to calibrate can be difficult?

If you can find a suitable star visible through the larger gaps between the clouds, you should be fine.

 

SKW is designed to work with "long" exposures — typically 5 to 10 seconds — during most of the collimation process. A longer exposure may be used at the end to validate the final fine collimation result. The latest SKW models are built to tolerate some level of tracking error from the mount. However, if tracking errors become too large, you might consider stacking several shorter exposures (without any processing — no dark or flat correction). Alternatively, you can estimate the average score across multiple short exposures by focusing on the central cluster of blue dots (scores) in the SKW collimation tool. To access this feature, check the "scatter plot" option on the right side of the SKW GUI.

 

The "long" exposure time also means that you can work with relatively faint stars, even when defocused. Just be sure not to clip the image, this is the most current issue. Consequently, there should be a sufficient number of usable stars available. When possible, aim near the zenith and use a red filter. Be sure to set the analysis wavelength to approximately 650 nm. Avoid double stars or stars close enough to cause overlap in the defocused image.

 

Even if there are high-altitude cirrus clouds, SKW may still be usable. These clouds are often thin and may act as a mild blur during long exposures. SKW is quite robust in this respect. It can deliver wavefront accuracy on the order of a few hundredths of a wave — well beyond the diffraction limit — even under seeing-limited conditions. This is possible because the mathematical models were trained using a Kolmogorov turbulence model. Such turbulence does not significantly impact wavefront accuracy unless conditions are especially poor — for example, seeing worse than 3", strong wind gusts, or local disturbances such as thermal plumes inside the OTA or from nearby rooftops or driveways (hence aiming to the zenith, or at least high enough above the horizon).

 

Happy Easter!

 

[drprovi57]

I thought I would post here regarding understanding better my recent SKW Collimation/Tilt data.  I am trying to adjust for minor tilt in my imaging setup attached to a Planewave CDK20 f/6.8 scope.  I have used SKW to collimate the CDK20 and it looks pretty good - last night I was getting 1.2 arcsec FWHM, good seeing at remote location.  Before I start any tilt adjustment I am looking for some guidance as to the best procedure - I have a four point EAT (electronic adjust tilter) Photo Cage so I can make um adjustments.  I generated a set of images using Paul's method to place stars in a ring around the center.

 

Thank you, Jason

 

Here are some screen captures of my data:

 

 

SKW Col of coma (green)

 

SKW Col Field analysis for tilt

 

SKW raw image data

 

PixInsight star image used by SKW

[StarsInArizona]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I am a new SkyWave user and have successfully done my first coma correction. I am now trying to figure out how to do the astigmatism correction.

 

I am an ASIAIR user. I used the skw-nina-star-radius-ccoordinator2 routine to get a grouping of coordinates to use Megrez (the star I did the coma with). I could never get the format correct for an import, so I created a plan using the AISAIR with 9 shots of Megrez. For each one I went in and changed the coordinates to the ones generated. I now have a plan to run.

 

But, I do not know how to combine all the images into a single FITS file to feed into SkyWave. I have Siril and ASTAP. Anyone have an idea for me?

 

Thank!

[joergsflow]

I am also in Asiair user and still use it often for several reasons.
But when it comes to skw, I mainly use a Windows computer so I can run nina, skw and pixinsight all together.
@starizona

With asiair you can’t merge those photos into a single one as with pixinsight.

@gaston:
But cool would be if skw would simply do the job itself. e.g. similar as Nina does by using the Pixinsight plugin for live frame generation.

[StarsInArizona]

I am also in Asiair user and still use it often for several reasons.
But when it comes to skw, I mainly use a Windows computer so I can run nina, skw and pixinsight all together.
@starizona

With asiair you can’t merge those photos into a single one as with pixinsight.

@gaston:
But cool would be if skw would simply do the job itself. e.g. similar as Nina does by using the Pixinsight plugin for live frame generation.

That would be very nice. I run my setup in the backyard and have the ASIAIR in station mode. I mount its storage to my PC. I can use Plan or Autorun to collect images then copying them onto my PC where I run SkyWave. Being able to select multiple FITS files and have SkyWave merge them would be a great convenience. 

 

I have been playing around with a bit of software development using Visual Studio C#. It seems a reasonable simple thing to do a straight merge of the files. I may give it a go.

[drprovi57]

I have found that using SKW to collimate a CDK or SCT is fairly easy since a single defocus star at the center FOV is straight forward and generates good collimation.  RC scopes and using the SKW Field Analysis Sensor Tilt and astigmatism feature is more challenging for consistent results.  The method provided by Peter Cox (see, https://youtu.be/Dimbwjf9u7Q) provides an excellent approach- generating a set of defocused star images at a fixed ring around the center star provides more reliable results with SKW - requires using the Excel Spreadsheet (see Paul Evans Excel Calculator for SKW downward, https://www.innovationsforesight.com/support/skg_skw_documentation_tutorial/) - just set up a NINA sequence with the values from Pauls Excel Calculator and generate 9 images using NINA, then use PixInsight "Integration function" to create a single 16 Bit FITS file that SKW reads.  It works well, see my above post. 

 

I am still trying to figure out how to make minor tilt adjustments to fine tune my full-frame (ZWO ASI6200) sensor.. 

[KTAZ]

I thought I would post here regarding understanding better my recent SKW Collimation/Tilt data.  I am trying to adjust for minor tilt in my imaging setup attached to a Planewave CDK20 f/6.8 scope.  I have used SKW to collimate the CDK20 and it looks pretty good - last night I was getting 1.2 arcsec FWHM, good seeing at remote location.  Before I start any tilt adjustment I am looking for some guidance as to the best procedure - I have a four point EAT (electronic adjust tilter) Photo Cage so I can make um adjustments.  I generated a set of images using Paul's method to place stars in a ring around the center.

 

Thank you, Jason

 

Here are some screen captures of my data:

 

 

SKW Col of coma (green)

screenshot_1551@0.5x.jpg

 

SKW Col Field analysis for tilt

screenshot_1549@0.5x.jpg

 

SKW raw image data

screenshot_1550@0.5x.jpg

 

PixInsight star image used by SKW

screenshot_1552@0.5x.jpg

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer since I am just set to do my first tilt adjustment attempt this coming weekend, however, I do have a question for you. How did you get all the star images on a single frame?

 

I also use the technique to get individual images at the proper offsets to give me the center and circle of stars, but I had problems previously when stacking them (SW would not accept the stacked image). Can you explain the specifics of your method?

 

Thanks much.

[StarsInArizona]

That would be very nice. I run my setup in the backyard and have the ASIAIR in station mode. I mount its storage to my PC. I can use Plan or Autorun to collect images then copying them onto my PC where I run SkyWave. Being able to select multiple FITS files and have SkyWave merge them would be a great convenience. 

 

I have been playing around with a bit of software development using Visual Studio C#. It seems a reasonable simple thing to do a straight merge of the files. I may give it a go.

I ended up writing my own program to merge the 9 files coming from my AISAIR. Here is the result. I put it into SkyWave and selected astigmatism, but I don't understand the results I am getting. It seems to be doing a coma check on the central star even though I select astigmatism only.

 

UPDATE: I forgot to select astigmatism in the analysis box. Now I am getting a result and it looks like I have a lot of work to do 

 

Update 2: What does the red star distribution flag mean? My star shots were done by hand, not by using the spread sheet as I am using an AISAIR and I have not been successful using custom targets in plan mode, but that is another issue to be figured out.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by StarsInArizona, 22 April 2025 - 04:32 PM.

[drprovi57]

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer since I am just set to do my first tilt adjustment attempt this coming weekend, however, I do have a question for you. How did you get all the star images on a single frame?

 

I also use the technique to get individual images at the proper offsets to give me the center and circle of stars, but I had problems previously when stacking them (SW would not accept the stacked image). Can you explain the specifics of your method?

 

Thanks much.

It’s very easy - once you have your images generated (in my case i generate 9 images via NINA sequence script), just open PixInsight    “Integration function”  - load all the images, make sure to not to select rejection, no normalization,… simple integration, very fast - takes less than 30s.  When you save the new integrated image of your stars MAKE SURE YOU SAVE AS FIT format and 16 BIT Integer.  SKW will then properly read the file and process the image

[KTAZ]

It’s very easy - once you have your images generated (in my case i generate 9 images via NINA sequence script), just open PixInsight    “Integration function”  - load all the images, make sure to not to select rejection, no normalization,… simple integration, very fast - takes less than 30s.  When you save the new integrated image of your stars MAKE SURE YOU SAVE AS FIT format and 16 BIT Integer.  SKW will then properly read the file and process the image

Thanks for the reply. I'll be trying this on the weekend!