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Nikon Z7 vs D850?

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#26 AgilityGuy

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 05:27 PM

Cost. Of course, it's easier to justify modding a $600 used camera than it is to justify modding a $3,000 camera rendering either virtually unusable before dark. As well, at this point, I would debate instead buying a dedicated astro camera, the ASI533, for example.

Thanks.  I bought my D800E used from a friend almost four years ago, modified it and it's still going great.  I don't anticipate needing another camera for awhile and then maybe more used D850 cameras will be around.  The evolution of astro cameras is interesting.  When I was looking at full frame astro-dedicated cameras a couple years ago the latest and greatest from QHY selling about $4K was still using the same sensor Nikon built into the D800/D810 starting in 2012.  They have been upgraded now to the back illumination technology and we'll see where they go from there.  There are so many variables in producing astroimages including choice of optics, seeing, guiding, light pollution, image processing skills, etc., etc., but given reasonable conditions I can honestly say my full spectrum modified D800E isn't the limiting factor in the quality of my images.  It's often hard for me to see qualitative differences between images that roll out of my camera and those taken from a camera costing $3K more.


Edited by AgilityGuy, 04 March 2021 - 03:07 PM.

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#27 sharkmelley

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 05:44 PM

You know, the usual almost concentric rings like this: https://i.postimg.cc...esult-scale.jpg

 

These were 20s lights intending to not overexpose the core or Orion. The rings are eliminated with longer exposure but, of course, Orion is then overexposed.

Thanks. It's consistent with what we see for other Nikon mirrorless cameras.

 

Mark


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#28 jmohme

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 12:41 PM

Have any RAW files you are willing to share?

Not at this time. ll of my original files are on my desk at home and it is my busy season so I will be on the road until late June.



#29 jmohme

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 01:06 PM

For conversation's sake, I was pretty sold on the Z5 until I called Kolari Vision. I spoke with them about 15 minutes or so. I had it down to the D850, the Z7 II or the Z5. With the D850 I was concerned about continuing to use a mechanical shutter as well as rolling shutter in Silent Live View. For the Z5 I wanted to be able to use the camera for video so I could image planets. And the Z7II is really new. Not only would I have to wait, there might be issues that aren't known yet.

 

I don't want to put words in their mouth, but as I recall, I was told that the D850 is their most popular astro-imaging camera and does not have the banding issues the Z cameras have. When I asked about wearing out the mechanical shutter (an issue I'm only slightly concerned about because I don't remind replacing the shutter later) I was told it's not really a huge issue. I also asked about rolling shutter and I was told it's only an issue at super high speeds, which I don't really think I would use. I also like that I don't need the adapter for my lenses with the D850. I was not too worried about autofocus issues because I will be manually focusing for the most part anyway. 

 

From all of the conversations I have had it sounds to me like if one were to pick any of the following D850, Z5, Z7II you really can't go wrong. One of the bigger NYC stores even mentioned the Z6.

 

My final pick was the D850. Partly due to the fact that it is so similar to the D810 and that's what I currently have, but even more so because it will do what I need it to do and I feel it will do it reliably.

I really would have no worries about the shutter assembly wearing out on a D850

I make my living as an equestrian event photographer and have more shutter releases in a day than most will do in a year.

Prior to my purchase of the D850 I shot D800s and D810s. I wore out shutter mechanisms and had to send the bodies into Nikon about once a year. 

Most of my shots are a single shutter release, but I do some reigning events and will shoot continuous for the slides at those events.

I am into year 3 on my D850 and just sent it in for repair this past week but not for shutter issues, I dropped a water bottle on it and cracked the top LED display.

 

I suspect that without a mirror to contend with my Z6 will likely be even more reliable.


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#30 HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 01:16 PM

That’s great to hear

#31 Challenger75

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Posted 05 March 2021 - 04:26 PM

For conversation's sake, I was pretty sold on the Z5 until I called Kolari Vision. I spoke with them about 15 minutes or so. I had it down to the D850, the Z7 II or the Z5. With the D850 I was concerned about continuing to use a mechanical shutter as well as rolling shutter in Silent Live View. For the Z5 I wanted to be able to use the camera for video so I could image planets. And the Z7II is really new. Not only would I have to wait, there might be issues that aren't known yet.

 

I don't want to put words in their mouth, but as I recall, I was told that the D850 is their most popular astro-imaging camera and does not have the banding issues the Z cameras have. When I asked about wearing out the mechanical shutter (an issue I'm only slightly concerned about because I don't remind replacing the shutter later) I was told it's not really a huge issue. I also asked about rolling shutter and I was told it's only an issue at super high speeds, which I don't really think I would use. I also like that I don't need the adapter for my lenses with the D850. I was not too worried about autofocus issues because I will be manually focusing for the most part anyway. 

 

From all of the conversations I have had it sounds to me like if one were to pick any of the following D850, Z5, Z7II you really can't go wrong. One of the bigger NYC stores even mentioned the Z6.

 

My final pick was the D850. Partly due to the fact that it is so similar to the D810 and that's what I currently have, but even more so because it will do what I need it to do and I feel it will do it reliably.

I'm a professional and multi published photographer. I've taken thousands of images with the original Z7 and Z5. Not one image ever had a banding issue. Here's what's the real issue: People not knowing how to use the cameras correct AF Area mode or doesn't know the exposure triangle. Yes, if someone is trying to push the exposure 4 or 5 stops, than yeah, you see issues. However, why would someone underexpose their image by that much? Your just asking for trouble. I've used two D850' s and a D500. Best AF system in a DSLR. Again thousands of images put through them and never had a shutter issue. Nikon's ML's with the latest firmware, which is available for all models, is fantastic. If someone has an issue with the focusing for BIF with ML, it's because they are not using the correct AF Area mode.  



#32 sharkmelley

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 02:52 AM

I'm a professional and multi published photographer. I've taken thousands of images with the original Z7 and Z5. Not one image ever had a banding issue. Here's what's the real issue: People not knowing how to use the cameras correct AF Area mode or doesn't know the exposure triangle. Yes, if someone is trying to push the exposure 4 or 5 stops, than yeah, you see issues.

Deep sky astrophotography is very different from general photography, "multi-published" or not.

 

A typical astrophotography sub-exposure will have the peak of the back-of-camera histogram well over to the left.  This is done for good reason - to prevent too many stars becoming saturated and losing their colour.  We also apply very heavy processing such as stacking, background subtraction and stretching to reveal the faintest of structures such as molecular clouds. This type of processing is guaranteed to bring out the slightest artefact that exists in the original data.  We are treating the camera more like a scientific instrument than a consumer camera which means that some cameras are much better suited to deep sky astrophotography than others - mainly as a result of the manufacturer's undocumented internal processing of the raw data.

 

Unfortunately it is all too common to see photographers experienced in other types of photography coming onto these forums telling us we are doing it all wrong!

 

Mark


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#33 jmohme

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 07:53 AM

Deep sky astrophotography is very different from general photography, "multi-published" or not.

 

A typical astrophotography sub-exposure will have the peak of the back-of-camera histogram well over to the left.  This is done for good reason - to prevent too many stars becoming saturated and losing their colour.  We also apply very heavy processing such as stacking, background subtraction and stretching to reveal the faintest of structures such as molecular clouds. This type of processing is guaranteed to bring out the slightest artefact that exists in the original data.  We are treating the camera more like a scientific instrument than a consumer camera which means that some cameras are much better suited to deep sky astrophotography than others - mainly as a result of the manufacturer's undocumented internal processing of the raw data.

 

Unfortunately it is all too common to see photographers experienced in other types of photography coming onto these forums telling us we are doing it all wrong!

 

Mark

I totally agree!

 

I am also a published professional photographer (for what little that's worth), but I come here to learn some new skills, not to tell anyone else what they are doing wrong.

 

I know I am a rookie in this area of photography.


Edited by jmohme, 06 March 2021 - 07:55 AM.


#34 SandyHouTex

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 10:17 AM

For conversation's sake, I was pretty sold on the Z5 until I called Kolari Vision. I spoke with them about 15 minutes or so. I had it down to the D850, the Z7 II or the Z5. With the D850 I was concerned about continuing to use a mechanical shutter as well as rolling shutter in Silent Live View. For the Z5 I wanted to be able to use the camera for video so I could image planets. And the Z7II is really new. Not only would I have to wait, there might be issues that aren't known yet.

 

I don't want to put words in their mouth, but as I recall, I was told that the D850 is their most popular astro-imaging camera and does not have the banding issues the Z cameras have. When I asked about wearing out the mechanical shutter (an issue I'm only slightly concerned about because I don't remind replacing the shutter later) I was told it's not really a huge issue. I also asked about rolling shutter and I was told it's only an issue at super high speeds, which I don't really think I would use. I also like that I don't need the adapter for my lenses with the D850. I was not too worried about autofocus issues because I will be manually focusing for the most part anyway. 

 

From all of the conversations I have had it sounds to me like if one were to pick any of the following D850, Z5, Z7II you really can't go wrong. One of the bigger NYC stores even mentioned the Z6.

 

My final pick was the D850. Partly due to the fact that it is so similar to the D810 and that's what I currently have, but even more so because it will do what I need it to do and I feel it will do it reliably.

I love my D850.  Best camera Nikon has ever made.



#35 Challenger75

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 03:46 PM

Deep sky astrophotography is very different from general photography, "multi-published" or not.

 

A typical astrophotography sub-exposure will have the peak of the back-of-camera histogram well over to the left.  This is done for good reason - to prevent too many stars becoming saturated and losing their colour.  We also apply very heavy processing such as stacking, background subtraction and stretching to reveal the faintest of structures such as molecular clouds. This type of processing is guaranteed to bring out the slightest artefact that exists in the original data.  We are treating the camera more like a scientific instrument than a consumer camera which means that some cameras are much better suited to deep sky astrophotography than others - mainly as a result of the manufacturer's undocumented internal processing of the raw data.

 

Unfortunately it is all too common to see photographers experienced in other types of photography coming onto these forums telling us we are doing it all wrong!

 

Mark

I know exactly what it takes to do Astro because I do it. I use PixInsight for PP and know the program pretty well, so your not telling me something I already know. Not once did I say, and this goes for the people who liked your comment, that they were doing astro wrong. Please point out where I specifically stated people were using there cameras wrong FOR ASTRO.  I'm waiting. I'm responding to those comments where a couple were questioning the durability of shutters or one who was having trouble acquiring focus using a ML. Please understand what your reading before commenting. Your apology is accepted. 



#36 whwang

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Posted 07 March 2021 - 02:04 AM

I know exactly what it takes to do Astro because I do it. I use PixInsight for PP and know the program pretty well, so your not telling me something I already know. Not once did I say, and this goes for the people who liked your comment, that they were doing astro wrong. Please point out where I specifically stated people were using there cameras wrong FOR ASTRO.  I'm waiting. I'm responding to those comments where a couple were questioning the durability of shutters or one who was having trouble acquiring focus using a ML. Please understand what your reading before commenting. Your apology is accepted. 

You also talked about the banding issue.  For daylight photography, I agree with you that it should not be a major issue when the images are properly exposed.  But this doesn't apply to astrophotography.


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