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Optic Wave Labs Mirrors for Sale at Farpoint

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#1 Poynting

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 09:27 PM

Has anyone tried one of the OWL mirrors available for sale at Farpoint?

 

"We have acquired a limited stock of fine annealed Pyrex blanks for a very good price.  

This allows us to pass the savings on in the form of an incredible deal!

When an order is received we will apply a fresh new enhanced aluminum optical coating and a “catseye” reflective center spot will also be applied for optimal collimation purposes."

 

Seems like a nice price, I wonder if these mirrors come with performance certificates, and if they are as good as sending in a mediocre mirror and getting a refigure done by OWL.


Edited by Poynting, 27 February 2021 - 09:27 PM.

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#2 calypsob

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 09:46 PM

Has anyone tried one of the OWL mirrors available for sale at Farpoint?

 

"We have acquired a limited stock of fine annealed Pyrex blanks for a very good price.  

This allows us to pass the savings on in the form of an incredible deal!

When an order is received we will apply a fresh new enhanced aluminum optical coating and a “catseye” reflective center spot will also be applied for optimal collimation purposes."

 

Seems like a nice price, I wonder if these mirrors come with performance certificates, and if they are as good as sending in a mediocre mirror and getting a refigure done by OWL.

Holy cow I want one of these! I look forwards to hearing feedback form others 



#3 Poynting

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 09:49 PM

Holy cow I want one of these! I look forwards to hearing feedback form others 

I ordered a 6" f/6, but looking to see if anyone has direct experience. I have a GSO 6" f/6, and at this price it may be worth a shot to compare one of their mirrors to the GSO.


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#4 calypsob

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 09:50 PM

I ordered a 6" f/6, but looking to see if anyone has direct experience. I have a GSO 6" f/6, and at this price it may be worth a shot to compare one of their mirrors to the GSO.

There are no QA specs listed but I suspect it will grossly outperform a GSO 



#5 Woj2007

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 06:08 AM

Hi Guys,

 

I enquired about the quality of these mirrors, as I was interested in the 6" f/6 myself, and this is the answer I got:

 

"Hi Wojciech,

These are garden variety Guan Sheng mirrors, so the optical quality varies and we don't test them. We occasionally take one and re-figure it to near perfection for use in an Astrograph, but at that bargain price, it is just hit or miss. Right now we are only doing strip and recoat services. No polishing, re-figuring, testing, etc. We are trying to crank out our own telescopes".

 

Hope this helps in deciding.


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#6 Poynting

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 09:18 AM

Hi Guys,

 

I enquired about the quality of these mirrors, as I was interested in the 6" f/6 myself, and this is the answer I got:

 

"Hi Wojciech,

These are garden variety Guan Sheng mirrors, so the optical quality varies and we don't test them. We occasionally take one and re-figure it to near perfection for use in an Astrograph, but at that bargain price, it is just hit or miss. Right now we are only doing strip and recoat services. No polishing, re-figuring, testing, etc. We are trying to crank out our own telescopes".

 

Hope this helps in deciding.

Wow. So I understand, is the term "blank" used to refer to untouched glass or a finished mirror? Seems they are being a bit deceptive. I mean I suppose they don't mention polishing and figuring, but they also don't mention that they are just recoating hit or miss GSO mirrors.



#7 Chris Johnson

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 10:39 AM

Agena has the GSO 6”f6 mirror for $155.00.



#8 dmgriff

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 11:16 AM

Hi Guys,

 

I enquired about the quality of these mirrors, as I was interested in the 6" f/6 myself, and this is the answer I got:

 

"Hi Wojciech,

These are garden variety Guan Sheng mirrors, so the optical quality varies and we don't test them. We occasionally take one and re-figure it to near perfection for use in an Astrograph, but at that bargain price, it is just hit or miss. Right now we are only doing strip and recoat services. No polishing, re-figuring, testing, etc. We are trying to crank out our own telescopes".

 

Hope this helps in deciding.

 

Wow. So I understand, is the term "blank" used to refer to untouched glass or a finished mirror? Seems they are being a bit deceptive. I mean I suppose they don't mention polishing and figuring, but they also don't mention that they are just recoating hit or miss GSO mirrors.

THIS WAS NOT THE CASE IN MY EXPERIENCE.

 

Perhaps there was some confusion of items, etc.

 

I do not think GSO mirrors are pyrex, probably bk7. The OWL/OSI product I received is thicker than the GSO mirror also.

 

I have a gso 6in f/6 newtonian ota, and ordered a set of the OWL/OSI  mirrors a year or so ago. I talked to them on the phone and they said the mirrors were .95 strehl or better. Stock was being depleted and I got the last 6in f/6 set, I believe as after my order, set was listed as out of stock. When I checked a couple of months ago all of the pyrex sets were out of stock I believe. The primary furnished by OWL is thicker than the oem gso primary. Thick enough to require longer retaining screws on the mirror cell. Came with a interferometer test certificate at .986 strehl and 1/12 wave peak to valley. The mirror they furnished me is definitely NOT anything GSO. 

 

I suggest you call them directly about the Pyrex Parabolic Mirror/sets.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave


Edited by dmgriff, 28 February 2021 - 12:22 PM.

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#9 stargazer193857

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 11:28 AM

I ordered a 6" f/6, but looking to see if anyone has direct experience. I have a GSO 6" f/6, and at this price it may be worth a shot to compare one of their mirrors to the GSO.


2-3x the price of GSO is considered a bargain. That just indicates how low GSO reputation is compared to premium.

#10 Poynting

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 11:37 AM

THIS WAS NOT THE CASE IN MY EXPERIENCE.

 

Perhaps there was some confusion of items, etc.

 

I do not think GSO mirrors are pyrex, probably bk7. The OWL/OSI product I received is thicker than the GSO mirror also.

 

I have a gso 6in f/6 newtonian ota, and ordered a set of the OWL/OSI  mirrors a year or so ago. I talked to them on the phone and they said the mirrors were .95 strehl or better. Stock was being depleted and I got the last 6in f/6 set, I believe as after my order, set was listed as out of stock. When I checked a couple of months ago all of the pyrex sets were out of stock I believe. The primary furnished by OWL is thicker than the oem gso primary. Thick enough to require longer retaining screws on the mirror cell. Comes with a interferometer test certificate at .986 strehl and 1/12 wave peak to valley. The mirror they furnished me is definitely NOT anything GSO. 

 

I suggest you call them directly about the Pyrex Parabolic Mirror/sets.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave

Dave thanks for sharing your experience. I will give them a call on Monday and see what they are currently offering and will report back so things are clear. If you recall, what size screw did you end up needing for retaining the mirror?

 

They seem to only be offering primary mirrors, as the primary secondary sets are sold out like you mentioned. I took out my GSO secondary and put it back using silicone blobs so it isn't stuck in their with that stiff adhesive. I will see how that performs before getting a new secondary mirror. Without testing the secondary, would astigmatism be the main flaw of a bad one to look for?


Edited by Poynting, 28 February 2021 - 11:41 AM.


#11 dmgriff

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 12:16 PM

Dave thanks for sharing your experience. I will give them a call on Monday and see what they are currently offering and will report back so things are clear. If you recall, what size screw did you end up needing for retaining the mirror?

 

They seem to only be offering primary mirrors, as the primary secondary sets are sold out like you mentioned. I took out my GSO secondary and put it back using silicone blobs so it isn't stuck in their with that stiff adhesive. I will see how that performs before getting a new secondary mirror. Without testing the secondary, would astigmatism be the main flaw of a bad one to look for?

I think the screws are M3? But, I may be wrong...Take one with you to a local hardware store and test the metric thread. I cant remember off hand the length of the new ones required. Cant remember if the gso primary is 3/4in or 1 inch to begin with?  So add 1/4 inch for screw length? Do not have access to the old parts as I had a pipe bust in my kitchen ceiling during the freeze and am at friends.

 

Do try to replace the secondary first with a high quality peak to valley flat. If it satisfies you visually, it may save the new primary cost. I just wanted premium class optics in the tube and could afford the set.The gso flats (and other mass produced) are just not as good as 1/15 lambda pv or better imo, and I mention 1/15 wave as that is the starting wave that Antares Optics in New York state offers in flats. I cant remember what the OWL included secondary wave is.

 

https://www.antareso...m/SEMirrors.php

 

Sorry couldnt be more specific.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave


Edited by dmgriff, 28 February 2021 - 12:39 PM.


#12 Woj2007

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 03:10 PM

I will give them a call on Monday and see what they are currently offering and will report back so things are clear. 

Great! Let us know. My enquiry was from September 2020, so maybe things change under Covid times.



#13 Poynting

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 12:23 PM

I spoke with Doug and he verified that these are GSO mirrors. He said for a higher price they could refigure one for me, but couldn't really provide specifics.... He said it would be a luck of the draw with these mirrors and they would not test them until getting a good one to sell for me. He didn't really sound interested in refiguring one for a higher price even. I cancelled the order. That is disappointing, but I'm glad I asked before getting the mirror. 


Edited by Poynting, 01 March 2021 - 12:39 PM.

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#14 stargazer193857

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 01:12 PM

I spoke with Doug and he verified that these are GSO mirrors. He said for a higher price they could refigure one for me, but couldn't really provide specifics.... He said it would be a luck of the draw with these mirrors and they would not test them until getting a good one to sell for me. He didn't really sound interested in refiguring one for a higher price even. I cancelled the order. That is disappointing, but I'm glad I asked before getting the mirror.


Why is he selling untested GSO mirrors for 2-3x the price of GSO mirrors? What is special about these ones? Just the fact they are in stock?


I also find it interesting you'd be so eager to pay for a refigured GSO mirror. There must be a huge back log in the premium market.
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#15 dmgriff

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 01:16 PM

I spoke with Doug and he verified that these are GSO mirrors. He said for a higher price they could refigure one for me, but couldn't really provide specifics.... He said it would be a luck of the draw with these mirrors and they would not test them until getting a good one to sell for me. He didn't really sound interested in refiguring one for a higher price even. I cancelled the order. That is disappointing, but I'm glad I asked before getting the mirror. 

Sad to hear.  Things change over time and covid I suppose....

 

Guess they ran out of the thicker pyrex blanks. Glad I was able to get one of the OWL mirrors when they were available.

 

They should change the website info about pyrex etc. for transparency and full disclosure etc.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave


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#16 Augustus

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 05:26 PM

So it's essentially a complete rip-off?



#17 Poynting

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 05:36 PM

Why is he selling untested GSO mirrors for 2-3x the price of GSO mirrors? What is special about these ones? Just the fact they are in stock?


I also find it interesting you'd be so eager to pay for a refigured GSO mirror. There must be a huge back log in the premium market.

Please advise me on who can provide a decent 6" f/6 mirror without a year wait list.

 

So it's essentially a complete rip-off?

I really don't want to believe it, but it leaves me wondering: do they not care about the OWL reputation anymore? Why are they recoating a batch of GSO mirrors they got at a bargain? What was wrong with them to begin with? Is a recoated GSO worth 2x the price of the new GSO?


Edited by Poynting, 01 March 2021 - 05:37 PM.

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#18 dmgriff

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 06:34 PM

I spoke with Doug and he verified that these are GSO mirrors. He said for a higher price they could refigure one for me, but couldn't really provide specifics.... He said it would be a luck of the draw with these mirrors and they would not test them until getting a good one to sell for me. He didn't really sound interested in refiguring one for a higher price even. I cancelled the order. That is disappointing, but I'm glad I asked before getting the mirror. 

 

 

I really don't want to believe it, but it leaves me wondering: do they not care about the OWL reputation anymore? Why are they recoating a batch of GSO mirrors they got at a bargain? What was wrong with them to begin with? Is a recoated GSO worth 2x the price of the new GSO?

 

If these are just GSO mirrors and hit and miss, I dont think they would do a recoat for sale. 

 

THEY JUST NEED TO SHOW THE PYREX MIRRORS AS OUT OF STOCK ON THE WEBSITE.

 

ADD THE GSO MIRRORS WITH DISCLOSURE THAT THESE ARE UNTESTED GSO OEM MIRRORS AND THE PRICE.

 

Sounds simple enough. Farpoint/OWL/OSI etc seem to be expanding services. Dont know what their staff situations are at this covid time. So getting something done that seems simple enough may ( regrettably ) take a while.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave


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#19 Poynting

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 03:03 PM

I've come across a local Parks 6" f/6 Pyrex being sold for $450. Seller used to be in the business of mirror making (Pegasus Optics) and claims the mirror is 1/10 PV or better, smooth surface, good coating (was likely recoated). Has the Parks cert with it. Honest opinion, is this reasonably priced?

#20 RLK1

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 07:52 PM

I've come across a local Parks 6" f/6 Pyrex being sold for $450. Seller used to be in the business of mirror making (Pegasus Optics) and claims the mirror is 1/10 PV or better, smooth surface, good coating (was likely recoated). Has the Parks cert with it. Honest opinion, is this reasonably priced?

I think you could do better getting an entire new scope for less: https://www.cloudyni...w#entry10462649


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#21 CHASLX200

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:03 PM

I've come across a local Parks 6" f/6 Pyrex being sold for $450. Seller used to be in the business of mirror making (Pegasus Optics) and claims the mirror is 1/10 PV or better, smooth surface, good coating (was likely recoated). Has the Parks cert with it. Honest opinion, is this reasonably priced?

Seems high for a 6". But if it is super good then the price is fine.



#22 dmgriff

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:18 PM

I've come across a local Parks 6" f/6 Pyrex being sold for $450. Seller used to be in the business of mirror making (Pegasus Optics) and claims the mirror is 1/10 PV or better, smooth surface, good coating (was likely recoated). Has the Parks cert with it. Honest opinion, is this reasonably priced?

The OWL pyrex primary at .95 strehl or better listed at 600 usd before the sale price. The list for OWL 8in primary is 730 usd.

 

Supply and demand. A 1/10 pv mirror is very good.

 

You may try OOUK or a European manufacturer, but check on your shipping.

 

https://www.orionopt...opemirrors.html

 

A f/6 is not on the price list. I understand they will do other focal lengths if you want.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave


Edited by dmgriff, 02 March 2021 - 08:44 PM.

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#23 Poynting

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 09:52 AM

The OWL pyrex primary at .95 strehl or better listed at 600 usd before the sale price. The list for OWL 8in primary is 730 usd.

 

Supply and demand. A 1/10 pv mirror is very good.

 

You may try OOUK or a European manufacturer, but check on your shipping.

 

https://www.orionopt...opemirrors.html

 

A f/6 is not on the price list. I understand they will do other focal lengths if you want.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave

Wow I forgot about Orion UK, will consider them. I am going to hold off on the mirror and plan for a better scope overall. I am seeing that this mirror cell and spider isn't great on the GSO 6" f/6, might be better to pay more and get an overall better scope later. I do love the GSO for the price, it really is a bargain, and has outperformed my expectations of $300.


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#24 RLK1

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 02:27 PM

Wow I forgot about Orion UK, will consider them. I am going to hold off on the mirror and plan for a better scope overall. I am seeing that this mirror cell and spider isn't great on the GSO 6" f/6, might be better to pay more and get an overall better scope later. I do love the GSO for the price, it really is a bargain, and has outperformed my expectations of $300.

So it appears that you either own or have used a GSO scope. As far as the optics go, would you rate them the same, worse or better than these samples? http://r2.astro-fore...newton-320-1500



#25 stargazer193857

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 03:26 PM

If there are six 1/8 wave mirrors and one 1/10, it is very possible for the 1/10 to be well over 4x the price just because of fabrication time/luck and people being willing to pay for the very best one. It does not mean the view will be 4x as good. Some people will pay for the chance to see a bit more detail.


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