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Antlia Pro 3nm Filter Halo Comparison

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#26 Jack2338

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 01:25 AM

Here's an update.  The dealer was nice enough to reverse the 3nm Oiii Antlia Pro filter in the 2" cell.  The results are much better with the coated shiny surface facing the sky away from the camera.  The halo is still there, but greatly reduced.  Therefore, try reversing the filter direction if you are getting severe halos.  The test star was Sirius, and the exposure was at 95% of saturation at the star center. One image is calibrated but no stretch.  The other image is stretched to show the residual halo.

 

Oiii Sirius 95% No Stretch.jpg Oiii Sirius Stretched.jpg



#27 Cfreerksen

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 10:15 PM

Here are some tests on the filters I just installed. Can't say that I am happy. Has anyone seen the ray artifact that I am getting on the SII? The halo on the Ha doesn't look good either.

 

The star selected is Eta Geminorum a magnitude 3.3 near the Jelly fish Nebula IC443.

 

All single frames w/ ASI2600MM and WO GT102 w/.72 reducer. Soft Stretched. Antlia filters 3nm.

 

Chris

 

 

As far as the OIII, not too shabby.

 

I also have a strange artifact on the Red filter. Any ideas?

 

Chris

To update: The Antlia filters are going back to the vendor. Threw down on a set of Chroma but went on the cheap with 5nm. I have to say the improvement is dramatic. So was the price difference, about double. But the shipping was fast about 10 days from order to door.

 

Chris



#28 AnakChan

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 03:12 AM

My heart's sinking. I've just paid for a set of Antlia full set 50mm round unmounted. The Oiii is meant to be the latest revision but am surprised to hear about the Sii and R as that shouldn't be the case. Another forum member had an issue with his R which AFAIK was replaced.


Edited by AnakChan, 06 April 2021 - 03:13 AM.


#29 Cfreerksen

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 09:31 AM

My heart's sinking. I've just paid for a set of Antlia full set 50mm round unmounted. The Oiii is meant to be the latest revision but am surprised to hear about the Sii and R as that shouldn't be the case. Another forum member had an issue with his R which AFAIK was replaced.

The ray SII pattern disappeared after a cleaning and of course position change (rotation). Not sure what was the issue. The moire pattern on the red is not the filter. I have seen this now (last night) on the Chroma and a very bright star in red. looking into that, camera window maybe? So the result is the OIII seemed to be fine with a fair to minor halo. The SII and Ha showed strong halos. This perplexed me as the complaints I have seen were all about the OIII having strong halo. All the filters showed very good contrast and excellent detail.

 

Antlia and the vendor were fairly responsive. Their assessment was reflections from the reducer were the cause. I would tend to agree with the halos being off-center and directionally dependent on the position around the center of the image. Your setup may be more forgiving. Mine was with a .72 WO Flat8 reducer on a GT102 @ f5.

 

I originally purchased because they were reviewed well but in the end not up to the quality I was expecting. I would say you get what you pay for.

 

Chris

Attached Thumbnails

  • Screenshot 2021-04-07 083844.jpg

Edited by Cfreerksen, 07 April 2021 - 09:40 AM.


#30 AnakChan

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:53 AM

Chris this from post #18, it looks like Antlia is talking about this reflection circled in red (i.e. the reflection bouncing back 'n forth between the outward facing side of the filter back to the reducer, then bouncing back in toward the sensor)? I guess that'll depend on how far that reducer glass is away from the filter 'cos if it's pretty far away I'd guess that light to be quite diffused and wouldn't be such a strong halo. But if it's close to the filter, then maybe it could result in a strong halo? Just found on CyclopsOptics that the backfocus for the Flat8 for the 102 is 12.1mm.

 

Reflection.jpg

 

There's another thread here which as been extremely useful. @sharkmelley's probably the best to comment as he's the expert on this.

 

Anyhow, I should get my Antlia filters before month end so will get a chance to play with it myself.


Edited by AnakChan, 08 April 2021 - 04:03 AM.


#31 Sponge

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 04:38 AM

The ray SII pattern disappeared after a cleaning and of course position change (rotation). Not sure what was the issue. The moire pattern on the red is not the filter. I have seen this now (last night) on the Chroma and a very bright star in red. looking into that, camera window maybe? So the result is the OIII seemed to be fine with a fair to minor halo. The SII and Ha showed strong halos. This perplexed me as the complaints I have seen were all about the OIII having strong halo. All the filters showed very good contrast and excellent detail.

 

Antlia and the vendor were fairly responsive. Their assessment was reflections from the reducer were the cause. I would tend to agree with the halos being off-center and directionally dependent on the position around the center of the image. Your setup may be more forgiving. Mine was with a .72 WO Flat8 reducer on a GT102 @ f5.

 

I originally purchased because they were reviewed well but in the end not up to the quality I was expecting. I would say you get what you pay for.

 

Chris

This is almost certainly a halo caused by an internal filter reflection. I had a similar issue with my Antlia 3nm Ha Pro and returned it for a different sample which did not exhibit the same issue.

 

If you could measure the size of your halos in pixels, and state the pixel size of your camera then we can calculate the reflection path length easily.

 

The reflection path distance can be derived using the formula d=t/(nF), where:

d = size of halo;
t = reflection path distance;
n = refractive index; and
F = focal ratio

 

Substituting in values for your system and assuming n=1.5 for glass, the size of the halo (if the 2mm thick filter is the culprit) should be ~266um.



#32 lakerunr

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 07:25 PM

I bought a set of Antlia 36mm LRGB and 3nm SHO. Nice packaging, mediocre product. The Green filter in the LRGB set had the center totally messed up. Like no coating in center. Made LRGB imaging useless. SHOs had halos on bright stars, not as bad as earlier 3.5nm Antlias, as seen on forums here, but a lot more than my set of 31mm 5nm Astrodons, or 31mm 3nm Chromas. 

 

Sent them back. Bought 36mm Astrodons, LRGB and 5nm SHO to keep price down a bit. No problems.

 

I checked them with ASI183MM and ASI294MM, where I had the 31mm sets. I initially had them on my ASI2600MM, which is what I bought them for because 31mm filters gave too much vignetting.

 

Anyway, that was my first and last experience with Antlias. Good luck!


Edited by lakerunr, 15 April 2021 - 07:28 PM.

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#33 DennisOrion

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 10:16 PM

I was looking into a full set (7) of the Antlia 36mm filters. I actually have the SII already and I'm waiting for the Ha and OIII to come in stock. I still haven't seen the LRGB Pro set listed. With the unknown delivery of the rest of the filters I need and the issues pointed out in this thread, I'll look for other options, like the Chroma's: The LRGB set will be a little more than the Antlia's, no big deal. It's the narrowband filters:

 

3nm are $775

5nm are $620

8nm are $355

 

The Antlia narrowband filters are $360, $330 and $330, so close to the Chroma 8nm. I know narrower should be better, but I have no idea what the performance difference would be between 3, 5 and 8nm filters. In other words Antlia 3nm or Chroma 8nm? Will I regret going with 8nm filters? Any suggestions?

 

Dennis


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#34 AnakChan

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 12:24 AM

I bought a set of Antlia 36mm LRGB and 3nm SHO. Nice packaging, mediocre product. The Green filter in the LRGB set had the center totally messed up. Like no coating in center. Made LRGB imaging useless. SHOs had halos on bright stars, not as bad as earlier 3.5nm Antlias, as seen on forums here, but a lot more than my set of 31mm 5nm Astrodons, or 31mm 3nm Chromas. 

 

Sent them back. Bought 36mm Astrodons, LRGB and 5nm SHO to keep price down a bit. No problems.

 

I checked them with ASI183MM and ASI294MM, where I had the 31mm sets. I initially had them on my ASI2600MM, which is what I bought them for because 31mm filters gave too much vignetting.

 

Anyway, that was my first and last experience with Antlias. Good luck!

Do you have any pictures of :-

1) the filters
2) the results you got

that you're able to share please? I'm really surprised to hear that and news such as this worries me as I have paid and am waiting for my Antlia filters.


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#35 RJF-Astro

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 01:31 AM

I was looking into a full set (7) of the Antlia 36mm filters. I actually have the SII already and I'm waiting for the Ha and OIII to come in stock. I still haven't seen the LRGB Pro set listed. With the unknown delivery of the rest of the filters I need and the issues pointed out in this thread, I'll look for other options, like the Chroma's: The LRGB set will be a little more than the Antlia's, no big deal. It's the narrowband filters:

 

3nm are $775

5nm are $620

8nm are $355

 

The Antlia narrowband filters are $360, $330 and $330, so close to the Chroma 8nm. I know narrower should be better, but I have no idea what the performance difference would be between 3, 5 and 8nm filters. In other words Antlia 3nm or Chroma 8nm? Will I regret going with 8nm filters? Any suggestions?

 

Dennis

In my experience, moving from 7-8nm Baader filters to 3nm Chroma, the difference is significant. My narrowband images keep surprising me since I got the Chroma, especially Ha which I really like to do in B/W.

 

Halo's did bother me with the Baader too. Some targets were just not possible to image, like the Horsehead, Y-cas and IC443 Jellyfish, others gave slight halo's but not too bad. That problem went away with Chroma, no issues whatsoever.

 

So yea, tough call. Actually I'd save up for 5nm Chroma at least if narrowband is your priority. It is a good investment.


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#36 AstroCatinfo

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 07:13 AM

I bought a set of Antlia 36mm LRGB and 3nm SHO. Nice packaging, mediocre product. The Green filter in the LRGB set had the center totally messed up. Like no coating in center. Made LRGB imaging useless. SHOs had halos on bright stars, not as bad as earlier 3.5nm Antlias, as seen on forums here, but a lot more than my set of 31mm 5nm Astrodons, or 31mm 3nm Chromas. 

 

Sent them back. Bought 36mm Astrodons, LRGB and 5nm SHO to keep price down a bit. No problems.

 

I checked them with ASI183MM and ASI294MM, where I had the 31mm sets. I initially had them on my ASI2600MM, which is what I bought them for because 31mm filters gave too much vignetting.

 

Anyway, that was my first and last experience with Antlias. Good luck!

Very useful Larry. I also ordered LRGB 36mm Astrodon for my ASI2600MM. But also asked for a 3nm Ha ANTLIA... now you make me hesitate if I should go the 5nm SHO Astrodon direction. 3nm SHO Astrodon are too expensive...


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#37 DennisOrion

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 08:12 AM

In my experience, moving from 7-8nm Baader filters to 3nm Chroma, the difference is significant. My narrowband images keep surprising me since I got the Chroma, especially Ha which I really like to do in B/W.

 

Halo's did bother me with the Baader too. Some targets were just not possible to image, like the Horsehead, Y-cas and IC443 Jellyfish, others gave slight halo's but not too bad. That problem went away with Chroma, no issues whatsoever.

 

So yea, tough call. Actually I'd save up for 5nm Chroma at least if narrowband is your priority. It is a good investment.

If I save up for the 5nm the 3nm aren't too far way! grin.gif

 

What about the Astrodon 5nm filters vs. the Chroma 5nm?  I see they are $501 each, but I have no idea of availability.



#38 RJF-Astro

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 08:46 AM

Yes, another combination you often see is 5nm Ha and 3nm O3 and S2. Because Ha is so abundant and you also pick up the signal from nitrogen. And when you image Ha from galaxies, redshift is less of an issue.

 

I don't know about Astrodon and Chroma. They seem to be on par. There were some reports on packaging and service issues with Astrodon here on CN, but I have no idea if this has been solved and how often that happens. Reports on Chroma have been mostly positive.


Edited by RJF-Astro, 16 April 2021 - 08:47 AM.

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#39 lakerunr

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 08:54 AM

If I save up for the 5nm the 3nm aren't too far way! grin.gif

 

What about the Astrodon 5nm filters vs. the Chroma 5nm?  I see they are $501 each, but I have no idea of availability.

When I bought the 36mm Astrodons, they were in stock at Farpoint, took a week to get. Ordered them 3/5/2021.

 

I have a 31mm set of 3nm Chroma SHO, and 31mm set of Astrodon with 5nm Ha and SII, and 3nm OIII. Honestly, I have not seen that big of a difference between 5nm and 3nm in those. I guess the 3nms are a bit more useful during bright moon phase, if the target is closer to the moon. I have not really had a chance to compare the 36mm Astrodon OIII 5nm to the 31mm 3nm versions. Not that many narrowband targets at 42 degrees N right now. :)



#40 PhotonHunter1

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 10:45 AM

Yes, another combination you often see is 5nm Ha and 3nm O3 and S2. Because Ha is so abundant and you also pick up the signal from nitrogen. And when you image Ha from galaxies, redshift is less of an issue.

Thanks for this information RJF! This answers a question I was getting ready to ask. 


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#41 RJF-Astro

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 11:25 AM

Thanks for this information RJF! This answers a question I was getting ready to ask. 

If the redshift is a consideration, this list might be interesting. It shows most common galaxies to image with the amount of redshift and if a 3nm is still usable. I made it a while back because I did get the 3nm. It turns out most of the popular targets like M82, M101 etc are fine. But with the Leo Triplet the Ha-signal drops for instance. Maybe I will get like a 12nm filter in the future, but for now there is still plenty to photograph.


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#42 PhotonHunter1

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Posted 17 April 2021 - 07:56 PM

If the redshift is a consideration, this list might be interesting. It shows most common galaxies to image with the amount of redshift and if a 3nm is still usable. I made it a while back because I did get the 3nm. It turns out most of the popular targets like M82, M101 etc are fine. But with the Leo Triplet the Ha-signal drops for instance. Maybe I will get like a 12nm filter in the future, but for now there is still plenty to photograph.

Looking at the Chroma site, it appears the 5nm filter will capture the Ha in most if not all the galaxies you've listed. Would you agree?



#43 CosmicWreckingBall

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 02:09 PM

Hi All,

 

I conducted a halo test of the new Antlia Pro 3nm narrowband filters, using Sirius as the target. 

 

All exposures were 2 minutes with the FSQ-106EDXIII running at f/5, 2" (48 mm) filters on the QHYCFW3-L, QHY600m camera set at 27 gain and 18 offset cooled to -5 deg C.

 

Here the captures with intensity adjusted based on equal brightness of background stars.  Halo assessments with my configuration are:

 

Ha:  Negligible

Sii:  Trace

Oiii: Significant

 

The diameter of the halos were the same around other bright stars in the field.  This indicates the reflections are likely between the two faces of the Oiii filter. I notice, in the case of the Oiii filter, the shiny, first surface filter coating faces toward the camera sensor, away from the telescope objective, while the Sii and Ha filters and LRGB filters all face the other direction.  Antlia states that face direction should not matter and that halos are to be expected with the Oiii filter.

 

I hope these test results are informative.

 

Cheers

Anyone in here have a photo of the filters before they went in?  Just received a new set of Antlia Pro Narrowband 50mm unmounted and want to make sure I don't have two HA filters because the HA and S2 look identical... maybe with a slight difference.



#44 AnakChan

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 08:27 AM

Anyone in here have a photo of the filters before they went in?  Just received a new set of Antlia Pro Narrowband 50mm unmounted and want to make sure I don't have two HA filters because the HA and S2 look identical... maybe with a slight difference.

I've installed mine already so I don't know if this will help.

 

(2) Antlia Ha (3) ZWO Ha (4) Antlia Oiii (5) ZWO Oiii (6) Antlia Sii (7) ZWO Sii

P4300008.jpeg

 

Closeup of Sii

P4300009.jpeg

 

Closeup of Ha

P4300011.jpeg


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#45 CosmicWreckingBall

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 08:38 AM

I've installed mine already so I don't know if this will help.

Huge help!  Thanks for taking the time to respond!



#46 AnakChan

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 02:36 AM

I received my new Antlia LRGB Pro and 3nm NB 50mm unmounted a few weeks ago but due to weather haven't been able to do a lot of testing with them.

 

In months of reading about Antlia as well as talking to them directly, I've concluded that with bright stars, no filter brands are immune to them. From samples other people have shared with their Chromas and Astrodons, they seem to be susceptible to halos too on bright stars. However now I'm going to a different approach of trying different star magnitudes to see until which point halos become apparent.

 

Early tests of Sirius and Antares undoubtedly showed halos, and my ASI6200MM's microlens reflections quite strongly. I've seen that from other filter brands too. So instead I'm testing dimmer stars beginning with Mu1 Scorpii. As below, Ha, Sii, and Red filters do seem to show nice control with the Oiii having a little bit of a halo still.

 

ASI6200MM/-10C/Gain0/Offset50/Bin1x1/5 min for NB and 3min for R on a Takahashi µ250CRS (2500mm/F10)

Screen Shot 2021-05-10 at 14.46.10.jpeg

 

Unfortunately I don't have Astrodons or Chromas to compare against but here's my ZWO 2" 7nm NB filters as a comparison. The halos are visible across all 3x NB filters to varying degrees but most prominent in Oiii.

 

ASI6200MM/-10C/Gain0/Offset50/Bin1x1/5 min subs on a Takahashi µ250CRS (2500mm/F10)

Screen Shot 2021-05-10 at 15.31.40.jpeg

 

Depending on weather, I'd like to start trying magnitude 4/5/6 stars with the Antlia too.


Edited by AnakChan, 10 May 2021 - 02:42 AM.

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#47 Cfreerksen

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 12:27 PM

Antlia 3nm Pro vs Chroma 5nm. Chroma $2700 full set SHOLRGB, Antlia 3.0 nm SHOLRGB $1320.

 

At 2x the price you decide.

Top: Chroma

Bottom: Antlia

 

Chris

Attached Thumbnails

  • Chroma 5nm.jpg
  • Antlia3.jpg

Edited by Cfreerksen, 11 May 2021 - 12:30 PM.

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#48 CosmicWreckingBall

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 05:27 PM

Antlia 3nm Pro vs Chroma 5nm. Chroma $2700 full set SHOLRGB, Antlia 3.0 nm SHOLRGB $1320.

 

At 2x the price you decide.

Top: Chroma

Bottom: Antlia

 

Chris

What scope, speed, and camera were you using here Cfreerksen?



#49 Cfreerksen

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 08:17 PM

What scope, speed, and camera were you using here Cfreerksen?

William Optics GT102 w/.72 Flat8 reducer, f5, ASI2600MM @ 600 sec, gain 100 and ZWO 36mm filter wheel new style. The Antlia exposures were 300 sec with same hardware in the previous post. All are single subs with a PI stretch. Yeah, went on the cheap with the Chroma 5nm instead of their 3nm.

 

Here (below) are both HA at 600 sec ALL same just stretched single sub. As you can see the detail is great in the Antila but the halo is quite prominent. The star is listed as "Magnitude of Tejat 2.88" "Tejat - μ Geminorum (mu Geminorum)"

 

This is what I was able to capture in 2 hours with the Chroma. https://www.cloudyni...443/?p=10992328

 

 

Chris

Attached Thumbnails

  • HA 600.jpg

Edited by Cfreerksen, 11 May 2021 - 08:55 PM.



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