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BB's Jaegers Classic Refractors Duo-Scope

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#1 Bomber Bob

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 04:18 PM

Just how crazy and/or senile is Ole Bomber Bob?  Yes, I'm down-sizing, while actively shopping for a Classic top-tier 4" APO, so let's go ahead & buy & build 2 small Jaegers refractors while we're at it...  No Sweat!!

 

FTR:  These will be my 2nd & 3rd A. Jaegers Refractors -- my first & largest is the JaegerMeister 4" F5 RFT that our grandkids are having 100% pure-dee FUN with.

 

DUO-SCOPE:  2 complementary scopes physically attached to each other, and with similar capabilities -- more than just Big Scope + Finder.  In this case, 2 x 1970s Jaegers achromatics at 1 :: 0.56 apertures...

 

Jaegers 89 is an unmounted & coated 89mm F4.5 RFT:

 

Jaegers 89mm OTA A04.jpg

 

Jaegers 50 is a mounted & coated 50mm F10 versatile, and part of an original Jaegers ATM Kit:

 

Jaegers 50mm OTA A02.jpg Jaegers 50mm OTA A01.jpg

 

Main Goal:  Both Jaegers will have that late 1960s / early 1970s look & feel -- no modern components -- easier than it sounds.


Edited by Bomber Bob, 16 March 2021 - 04:35 PM.

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#2 Bomber Bob

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 05:30 PM

Jaegers 50 is a Complete Kit.  All I gotta do is make sure all the parts fit; blacken the tube interior, and paint the exterior.  It'll have a 1.25" focuser.

 

Jaegers 89 will take longer to complete.  First, I gotta gather parts.  I already have that Edmund 2" rack & pinion focuser headed to The Swamp.  I have several ~ 90mm aluminum tubes in my shed.  I have an antique brass tube, too -- but I think it's too small diameter to use.  The Lens Cell... gonna try to find a Jaegers model first; or, modify a used one; or, have The Boys make one -- like they did for the JaegerMeister (and they did an Outstanding job!). 


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#3 Bomber Bob

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 03:54 PM

Jaegers 89 - Focuser End:

 

Jaegers 89 Build T01 - Focuser Hardware.jpg Jaegers 89 Build T02 - Focuser Hardware.jpg Jaegers 89 Build T03 - Focuser Hardware.jpg Jaegers 89 Build T04 - Focuser Hardware.jpg

 

I used a piece of that NexStar 90 tube + cell & dewshield + focuser on that 85mm F5 RFT that I built from a WWII military binocular objective.  I found that flange in my brass bin.  I'm pretty sure it was part of an antique AZ mount -- a coupler between the tripod hub & the vertical column.  Used my Dremel to carve off its upper parts, then filed & sanded it flat.  The Edmund 2" R&P will bolt to it, and the flange will fit inside the aluminum tube - with a thin gold brass trim ring showing.  I may repeat what I did with the JaegerMeister:  Add 3 more holes to make push / pull pairs for alignment with the optical axis.

 

My Drop Back & Punt Plan:  Cannibalize the Meade 390 -- chop the tube to the appropriate length, and adapt the J 89 lens to its cell. 

 

BIF:  As I suspected, the brass tube is too small for an 89mm lens & cell.  That 2" to 1.25" adapter came with the Dakin 4.  It was machined from a single piece of aluminum & is black anodized.  Add it to the very heavy Edmund focuser, and the J 89 is gonna be severely tail-heavy!


Edited by Bomber Bob, 18 March 2021 - 04:14 PM.

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#4 Bomber Bob

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 03:18 PM

Jaegers 50 - Kit Delivered:

 

Jaegers 50 Restore S01 - Complete KIT.jpg Jaegers 50 Restore S02 - Cast Hardware.jpg Jaegers 50 Restore S03 - Cast Hardware.jpg Jaegers 50 Restore S04 - Shipping BOX.jpg

 

All in mint condition.  It was ordered from Jaegers in 1994 -- 27 years gone by in a flash!!  (I was just getting settled into life at The Swamp after Desert Storm.)  Lens Cell:  Retaining Ring is on the eye side; and, the cell slips over the tubing.  BIG Finder Bracket!  The Dinky R&P Focuser is for 1.25" accessories (looks smaller than that in person).  Dig the Old Stamps on the box!


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#5 Bomber Bob

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 03:20 PM

Jaegers 89 - Lens Delivered:

 

Jaegers 89 Build P05 - Lens BOX.jpg

 

Lens is Pristine!  I ordered a cheap plastic cell from Sheldon to use for testing & the initial build.

 

I'll check both Jaegers objectives on the DPAC when this one is ready.


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#6 clamchip

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 04:20 PM

Those white Jaegers knobs are rare and I can't seem to establish a date for them.

At one time I thought mid-fifties, and this may still hold true for the most part I think.

 

Robert


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#7 Terra Nova

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 05:24 PM

I didn’t realize that Jaegers was still in business as late as 1994? Nice stuff. Should make a neat little project.


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#8 Bomber Bob

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 05:59 PM

Those white Jaegers knobs are rare and I can't seem to establish a date for them.

At one time I thought mid-fifties, and this may still hold true for the most part I think.

 

Robert

I don't recall ever seeing that color on Jaegers stuff, but it's been decades since my B'ham parties.



#9 clamchip

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 08:00 PM

I don't recall ever seeing that color on Jaegers stuff, but it's been decades since my B'ham parties.

I wish I knew more about the white knobs.

I'm sure there was a time you could buy these wonderful Bakelite knobs in all

different colors.

Unbelievably, in fact almost borderline downright unfathomable, you can still buy 

the black ones at Ace Hardware.

 

Robert  


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#10 Kasmos

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:56 AM

Jaegers only loosely sold what you'd call a kit. The 4 complete refractor OTAs they showed didn't have a single order number, but instead just gave you a list of the parts with order numbers, and each of their prices. It was really just an easy way to the order the parts to build a scope without going thru the catalog and looking up each component. Long lists on different pages with really small type and back and forth page flipping wasn't very user friendly.

 

You might want to check the lens size. Jaegers list them as 54mm. The one in the "kit" has a f.l. of 30". As for the focuser. The white knobs are very cool but it's probably not a untouched focuser. It looks like someone machined it to fit that tube and drilled holes to attach it. They came from Jaegers undrilled with the black anodizied finish intact where they slip into the tube and it should also have the wrinkle black paint on the lip. The catalog also states the rack tube travel for all refractors is 4 5/8" and 2 1/4" for reflectors. Yours looks like the shorter rack tube.

 

The 30mm finder for the 54mm kit (and others), had two ring mounts like on a Unitron. I can't locate single stalk finder mount like yours in the catalog, so it might be an early Edmund, but their is perhaps some evidence (I won't go into now) they also sold one like it at one time. Also, the "kit" had a 22mm Kellner but no diagonal.

 

BTW, If you look in the catalog index for a focuser you're not going to find them since they called them "Eyepiece Mounts". hmm.gif


Edited by Kasmos, 23 March 2021 - 03:08 AM.

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#11 Terra Nova

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 08:06 AM

Jaegers only loosely sold what you'd call a kit. The 4 complete refractor OTAs they showed didn't have a single order number, but instead just gave you a list of the parts with order numbers, and each of their prices. It was really just an easy way to the order the parts to build a scope without going thru the catalog and looking up each component. Long lists on different pages with really small type and back and forth page flipping wasn't very user friendly.

 

You might want to check the lens size. Jaegers list them as 54mm. The one in the "kit" has a f.l. of 30". As for the focuser. The white knobs are very cool but it's probably not a untouched focuser. It looks like someone machined it to fit that tube and drilled holes to attach it. They came from Jaegers undrilled with the black anodizied finish intact where they slip into the tube and it should also have the wrinkle black paint on the lip. The catalog also states the rack tube travel for all refractors is 4 5/8" and 2 1/4" for reflectors. Yours looks like the shorter rack tube.

 

The 30mm finder for the 54mm kit (and others), had two ring mounts like on a Unitron. I can't locate single stalk finder mount like yours in the catalog, so it might be an early Edmund, but their is perhaps some evidence (I won't go into now) they also sold one like it at one time. Also, the "kit" had a 22mm Kellner but no diagonal.

 

BTW, If you look in the catalog index for a focuser you're not going to find them since they called them "Eyepiece Mounts". hmm.gif

Someone else’s partially done yet unfinished project no doubt.


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#12 Bomber Bob

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 11:47 AM

Jaegers 50 - Lens Details:

 

Jaegers 50 Restore S12 - Lens & Cell (Crown).jpg Jaegers 50 Restore S14 - Lens & Cell (Flint).jpg

 

Cemented Achromatic Doublet
LD = 53.65 mm / 2.1"
CA = 51.55 mm / 2.0"
FL = [est] 635 mm / 25"
FR = [est] 12.3
Edge Markings:  Crown & Flint #21 (faint pencil); Flint only 249 & #951 (dark pencil) - Part Number?  A. Jaegers 1966 Catalog:  #951 - Uncoated! / FL = 622 mm / 24.5"  [FR = 12.1].

 

So... my yardstick + white screen Focal Length tool is good to about 0.5" -- not bad.  With DPAC, I get the FL to about +/- 5mm.  At first glance, the lens in its cell looked coated, but out of the cell, nope!

 

Very faint & stylized 21 on the edge of both elements.  The thicker flint has a very dark 249, and a slightly fainter (older?) #951 (the 5 looks like an S).  According to my 1966 Jaegers Catalog, that makes it an uncoated version of this lens.  I wonder... does the 249 refer to quantity?  Did Jaegers really have that many of these surplus lenses?  They are very scarce as War Surplus.

 

I cleaned the cell parts, then polished away a small water spot on the crown.  Looking forward to checking this lens on my DPAC Rig.


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#13 Kasmos

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:34 PM

Under Big Lenses/Achromatic Objectives, my 1978 catalog shows the 24 1/2" FL as catalog# 28951 and it's one of only two 54mm that they indicate as uncoated. It jives with what you have and see. I don't know if the 249 is the quanity, but since they were advertising and selling them for many years, I wouldn't be surprised if they had more than that in stock.

 

All this catalog browsing made me look up the 89mm lens. My catalog shows no such animal anywhere, does yours? Since I've noticed that a lot of sellers make assumptions about both Jaegers and Edmund there's a possibility that the seller was mistaken.

 

As for Jaegers being around in 1994. My collection of S&T is now incomplete but IIRC believe I have an issue from '94 with a Jaegers ad (I know I have one from '91). When I came across them, it made me wonder when they quit doing business?


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#14 Bomber Bob

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:47 PM

Yeah, I found it -- pg 43.  The number on the box looks like 1176, but it's actually 1196 (box has weathered a lot!).  It's an 89x423 Field Lens -- not a scope Objective.  Odds are, it'll have more colors than a Kaleidoscope!! (Which STINKS, as the box states 1/20th wave, and it looks like a high-quality hunk of glass -- possibly vintage surplus B&L or Wollensak.)

 

The cell came in today, so I'll mount it, and test it with an eyepiece, BEFORE I build a scope around it. 


Edited by Bomber Bob, 23 March 2021 - 03:50 PM.

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#15 Bomber Bob

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 04:43 PM

Jaegers 89 - Lens Mounted:

 

Jaegers 89 Build S11 - Lens & Cell.jpg

 

Well... it may not be a real Jaegers Objective, but it could play one on TV...


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#16 Kasmos

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 03:44 AM

I ran across the CN ad you got the 54mm from and it says he bought it 9/74, so it's only been sitting another 20 years.



#17 Bomber Bob

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Posted 28 March 2021 - 02:23 PM

Jaegers 50 - DPAC:

 

Jaegers 50 F12 DPAC T01 - OF (GS).jpg Jaegers 50 F12 DPAC T02 - IF (GS).jpg

 

The photos are proof of effort, not a reflection of the visual results.  Overall, Very Good DPAC.  But, saw a small zone (bright spot at IF), most obvious at Inside Focus (maybe a flaw in the cement?).  No obvious turned edge.  Vertical Lines are straight,black, but slightly thicker than the Swift 838 -- my reference small achromat.  Green Light only.

 

FL = [DPAC] 626 mm / 24.6"
FR = [DPAC] 12.1

 

A. Jaegers 1966 Catalog:  #951 - Uncoated! / FL = 622 mm / 24.5"  [FR = 12.1].

 

When I bought that Tak SC EQ, it came with some extras, including this Camera Mount:

 

BBs DPAC Gear v3 T11 - Camera Mount.jpg

 

Once I work out the best placement, I'll bolt it to the Ronchi Platform.  No more jitters.  In fact, it takes this Nikon about 6 seconds from pressing the button to making the photo!  I can step back & watch it make a lousy picture.  And... in AUTO, the lens extends about 5mm towards the screen before it locks focus & makes an exposure -- so I have to allow for that behavior.


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#18 Bomber Bob

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Posted 31 March 2021 - 09:30 AM

Jaegers 50 - Baffles & Rotating Focuser:

 

Jaegers 50 Restore T21 - Brass Baffles (BEFORE).jpg Jaegers 50 Restore T22 - Brass Baffles (Felt).jpg

 

Found a 7" length of thin-wall brass tubing in the shed to make 3 baffle frames and a collar for the focuser.  Each frame is about 1.5" long, and with the felt strips attached, are a snug fit inside the aluminum tube.  Baffle material?  With our heat & humidity, it has to be something that won't sag, pucker, etc. -- like that sandpaper flocking I tried once...

 

Back when I built the 4" JaegerMeister, I wanted to give it a rotating focuser... The hardware / components nixed it -- too complicated for my tools & experience.  The J50 is much easier to deal with, and I can see a simple way to make one that'll stay aligned.  It starts with attaching the Jaegers focuser to that brass collar...  Previous owner filed the flange such that it's no longer centered -- I'll correct that with my belt sander.


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#19 GreyDay

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Posted 31 March 2021 - 10:00 AM

Jaegers 50 - DPAC:

 

attachicon.gifJaegers 50 F12 DPAC T01 - OF (GS).jpgattachicon.gifJaegers 50 F12 DPAC T02 - IF (GS).jpg

 

The photos are proof of effort, not a reflection of the visual results.  Overall, Very Good DPAC.

Great news on the DPAC, sounds like it's gonna be a nice little 2" star killer! With the extra baffles it should have great contrast, can't wait for the first light report.

 

Keep up the good work JW. :)


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#20 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 05:59 PM

So, I got 3 brass baffle frames.  In my free time, I've been experimenting with knife-edge apertures.  By experimenting, I mean trying several materials that would not work...

 

- Thin black plastic (coffee can lid):  Too wobbly & soft to Dremel, too thick for precise cuts with an X-Acto knife.

- Aluminum Foil:  Yes!  Very round center holes using Debbie's curved nail (?) scissors, true thin edges; but, slips, slides, & puckers when attaching to a tube end -- can't keep it centered.

 

At this point, I went to the Mac-Carr site, and looked at the Brass Washers...

 

Two materials I haven't tried:  the flat black hobby foam I've used for flocking; and, thin cork sheets.  If these don't work...  Edmunds black paper will look real good.


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#21 GreyDay

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 06:20 PM

Two materials I haven't tried:  the flat black hobby foam I've used for flocking; and, thin cork sheets.  If these don't work...  Edmunds black paper will look real good.

I've used thick black card to make a reinforcing tube with thin card (finer edge) for the baffe discs, a bit like traditional metal baffles that can be moved. once in place a bit of adhesive keeps them there. a quick sand with 600 grit paper takes the slight shine off the face of the paper before you cut it. I tried spraying sandpaper flat black and installing that as flocking, after a few outings i was getting black sand in the focuser! i wont do that again :)


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#22 starman876

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 10:27 AM

https://alien-observatory.com/

 

this place will 3d print any baffle you want.


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#23 Bomber Bob

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 05:57 PM

Hope the weather cooperates!  The Jaegers lens cell fits snugly on the cell for my Monolux (T) 4348 50mm F12:

 

Jaegers 50 Restore S42 - M4348 Test OTA.jpg

 

(Blue Tape insurance policy!)


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#24 starman876

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 07:08 PM

Hope the weather cooperates!  The Jaegers lens cell fits snugly on the cell for my Monolux (T) 4348 50mm F12:

 

attachicon.gifJaegers 50 Restore S42 - M4348 Test OTA.jpg

 

(Blue Tape insurance policy!)

so good to see I am not the only one that builds telescopes like thislol.gif


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#25 Terra Nova

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 10:48 PM

https://youtu.be/J2l-F1ElJMc
 

:lol:


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