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New line of APO refractors from TS Germany

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#1 Mihai

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:01 AM

https://www.teleskop...-TS-CF-APO.html

TS Germany have a new and very interesting line of refractors with top specifications...I'm interested in the 90mm,i want one as a portable visual setup...of course they are more inclined toward astrophotography,but I believe that they are also perfect for visual. What do you think? 😀
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#2 Mihai

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:03 AM

What is even more important is that most of them are IN STOCK,you don't have to wait for months to buy one.
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#3 Simoes Pedro

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:48 AM

Guys like me, who like to look through eyepieces, would like longer focal ratios. What's the problem with a 80 mm @ F8?


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#4 rerun

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 05:45 AM

A few days ago I watched these scope at the TS germany page. I found the 90mm scope interesting, too. But I am only a visual observer and 540mm was to short for me. Looks like a good package for traveling.


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#5 Pequod

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 06:13 AM

I only do AP and noticed when these came out because I was looking for a 5” APO. It appears they are identical to the TS Photoline scopes, but with a lower grade glass (FPL 55 vs 53 in the Photoline) and higher price. Maybe I missed something. Didn’t dig much deeper and ordered an Esprit 120ED instead. 



#6 Tapio

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 06:20 AM

As an imager I would probably choose SharpStar 94EDPH f/5.5 instead.



#7 Jethro7

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 06:24 AM

Guys like me, who like to look through eyepieces, would like longer focal ratios. What's the problem with a 80 mm @ F8?

 Hello Simoes Pedro,

Nothing would would be wrong with a 80mm F/8.I guess it is just a point of preference. My AT60ED F/6  360mm focal length works just fine for visual. My thoughts on that these scopes TS Optics that are below 102mm are geared more to the Imaging market. I do understand where you are comming from. My favorite all around refractor is a 102ED F/11 and I sure would like to  see a better selection of long focal ratio scopes being offered from top manufactures but they are out of voque right now. How ever the new TS 130 and 155 are a temptation.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AAND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 30 March 2021 - 06:25 AM.

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#8 Phillip Creed

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 07:05 AM

I only do AP and noticed when these came out because I was looking for a 5” APO. It appears they are identical to the TS Photoline scopes, but with a lower grade glass (FPL 55 vs 53 in the Photoline) and higher price. Maybe I missed something. Didn’t dig much deeper and ordered an Esprit 120ED instead. 

FPL-55 is virtually identical in performance to FPL-53.  My understanding is that it's easier to polish than FPL-53, so there is a cost savings.

Clear Skies,

Phil


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#9 Deadlake

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 07:38 AM

I suspect the glass is better figured, but no lens metrics supplied.

 

To me these scopes are too slow for AP and too fast for visual.


Edited by Deadlake, 30 March 2021 - 10:35 AM.

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#10 jcj380

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 09:16 AM

What, am I the only one who'd buy one just for the anodized blue accents?  lol.gif

 

Seriously, I've been thinking about an AT92, so this is an interesting development...

 

I'm visual only (for now anyway) and have no beef with either my f/5 ST80 or ST120.


Edited by jcj380, 30 March 2021 - 09:17 AM.

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#11 bobhen

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 09:59 AM

It seems that TS has, like Stellarvue, upped their game. Does this mean that these new CF refractors, like those offered by Stellarvue, are now also better than the standard Chinese optical quality that both companies previously offered (TS still does) in the past?

 

Both now seem to offer “test certificates” and the same size and FL with: 80mm F6, 102mm F7, 130 F7 and 155/152 F8 air-spaced, triplet refractors; with TS, even for their new CF versions, still the less expensive option.

 

SV promotes Strehls of .99 while TS says their new CF lenses are "indistinguishable from the world famous LZOS lenses".

 

Of course, everything is marketing until a few are independently tested to backup the marketing claims. But a race for better quality would seem to be a good thing.

 

Bob



#12 Deadlake

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:10 AM

It seems that TS has, like Stellarvue, upped their game. Does this mean that these new CF refractors, like those offered by Stellarvue, are now also better than the standard Chinese optical quality that both companies previously offered (TS still does) in the past?

 

Both now seem to offer “test certificates” and the same size and FL with: 80mm F6, 102mm F7, 130 F7 and 155/152 F8 air-spaced, triplet refractors; with TS, even for their new CF versions, still the less expensive option.

 

SV promotes Strehls of .99 while TS says their new CF lenses are "indistinguishable from the world famous LZOS lenses".

 

Of course, everything is marketing until a few are independently tested to backup the marketing claims. But a race for better quality would seem to be a good thing.

 

Bob

Where else to go but up. Hard to compete with mass produced scopes from Far East.

I suspect these TS scopes are better figured then Chinese lens and that TS has had the lens made in Taiwan, but thats just a guess as I know APM is sourcing non-LZOS lens from there.


Edited by Deadlake, 30 March 2021 - 10:34 AM.


#13 Simoes Pedro

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:33 AM

I only do AP and noticed when these came out because I was looking for a 5” APO. It appears they are identical to the TS Photoline scopes, but with a lower grade glass (FPL 55 vs 53 in the Photoline) and higher price. Maybe I missed something. Didn’t dig much deeper and ordered an Esprit 120ED instead. 

How is FPL55 "Lower grade"?

 

FPL55 is lighter, has better chemical resistance (Acid & Phosphate), cools faster, changes its refraction index slower with temperature, and is stiffer.

 

All of this for 99.72% of FPL53 Abbe number, 99.96% of the PF,e, and virtually identical Pg,F.

 

BTW is cheaper (-14%). 

 

So, which one is the "lower grade"?

 

All this information is freely and readily available. Just download the Ohara catalog.


Edited by Simoes Pedro, 30 March 2021 - 10:48 AM.

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#14 JMW

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 11:20 AM

The f/6 70mm with their 0.8 corrector would give a very wide 336mm focal length for imaging. That would be a 4° x 2.67° field of view with my ASI2600MC-Pro or 6.13° x 4.09° with a full frame sensor.

 

The photos show an included test certificate. The sample photo was for the 155mm f/8 with a strehl of 0.959.  There is no mention of the minimum acceptable strehl for the scopes. I would be curious if they have a minimum target and would they share it via email. At least they are including the test report with the scope when you buy it.


Edited by JMW, 30 March 2021 - 11:32 AM.


#15 Pequod

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 11:21 AM

FPL-55 is virtually identical in performance to FPL-53.  My understanding is that it's easier to polish than FPL-53, so there is a cost savings.

Clear Skies,

Phil

 

How is FPL55 "Lower grade"?

 

FPL55 is lighter, has better chemical resistance (Acid & Phosphate), cools faster, changes its refraction index slower with temperature, and is stiffer.

 

All of this for 99.72% of FPL53 Abbe number, 99.96% of the PF,e, and virtually identical Pg,F.

 

BTW is cheaper (-14%). 

 

So, which one is the "lower grade"?

 

All this information is freely and readily available. Just download the Ohara catalog.

Perhaps it is equivalent, but now see two references to FPL-55 being cheaper, yet the FPL-55 version of the TS 130 scope is about 600 euros more (30% higher) than the equivalent FPL-53 version. My primary point was that I didn't give it a second look due to the substantially higher price than the FPL-53 Photoline series.


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#16 Simoes Pedro

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 01:14 PM

Perhaps it is equivalent, but now see two references to FPL-55 being cheaper, yet the FPL-55 version of the TS 130 scope is about 600 euros more (30% higher) than the equivalent FPL-53 version. My primary point was that I didn't give it a second look due to the substantially higher price than the FPL-53 Photoline series.

The difference appears to be the test certificate. Either that or the blue anodizing. smile.gif

 

BTW, the triplets from TS are known to be extremely good. I do not know if you follow Mr. Rohr in astroforen. TS APOs are on par with the very best, sometimes at half price. http://r2.astro-fore...lles-ueber-apos

 

They have a 130 FPL53 triplet at 2000 Euros. They also have a lens assembly only for a 115mm FPL51 triplet (matting glass likely LAK8) at F7 for only 750 or complete OTA for 1349€. These look very reasonably priced. 


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#17 Jethro7

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 01:44 PM

What, am I the only one who'd buy one just for the anodized blue accents?  lol.gif

 

Seriously, I've been thinking about an AT92, so this is an interesting development...

 

Hello jcj380,

The blue Accents allow the scope to go deeper into space. lol.gif I do believe that the TS Optics and  Astrotech scopes are both manufactured by Kunming United Optics. I have never been disappointed by KUO. Products. I have several of their scopes. So yes it is tempting. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#18 sanbai

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 02:27 PM

Hello jcj380,
The blue Accents allow the scope to go deeper into space. lol.gif I do believe that the TS Optics and Astrotech scopes are both manufactured by Kunming United Optics. I have never been disappointed by KUO. Products. I have several of their scopes. So yes it is tempting.

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


If I'm not my mistaken, KUO is manufacturing the APM xwa 100° eyepieces and their several reincarnation. They get very good reviews.

BTW, when looking at OTAs one have to account not only for the optics but also for the mechanics (focuser!) and accessories (rings, case). At those budget prices an improvement adds significant extra cost.

We may see FPL55 slowly substituting fpl53. Don't get surprised if the old line is discontinued.

Edited by sanbai, 30 March 2021 - 02:28 PM.


#19 Timo I

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 03:55 PM

Here's an interesting read for those interested in different optical glasses and their usage in refractors:

https://ap-ug.groups.../79514097#83479

Roland Christen shares there his knowledge about that area of expertise... cool.gif


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#20 Ben the Ignorant

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:54 PM

I found the 90mm scope interesting, too. But I am only a visual observer and 540mm was to short for me.

Wide fields are nice to have for visualists, too, why discount them?



#21 Ben the Ignorant

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:55 PM

As an imager I would probably choose SharpStar 94EDPH f/5.5 instead.

All these scopes can be fitted with a 0.8x reducer/corrector.



#22 Ben the Ignorant

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:58 PM

The sample photo was for the 155mm f/8 with a strehl of 0.959.  There is no mention of the minimum acceptable strehl for the scopes.

It's got to be 0.95 to be competitive and justify the bigger cost.

 

I too had noticed these new scopes, they sure got my attention but I was intimidated by their higher price. However the FPL-55 glass is a plus so I asked if their 115mm f/7 triplet would also be offered with 55 glass, but they replied no, the 115mm is very well corrected thanks to a combination of FPL-51 and lanthanum lenses.

 

It has a newly formulated objective compared to the older version that Rohr had tested as having a 0.96 or 0.97 Strehl, and a tougher and more accurate 2.5" rack-and-pinion focuser.

 

Looked very interesting, and it might as well be an FPL-51 scope because I will spend less when I buy it several weeks from now, when finances improve drastically.


Edited by Ben the Ignorant, 30 March 2021 - 05:11 PM.


#23 Jethro7

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 07:37 PM

If I'm not my mistaken, KUO is manufacturing the APM xwa 100° eyepieces and their several reincarnation. They get very good reviews.

BTW, when looking at OTAs one have to account not only for the optics but also for the mechanics (focuser!) and accessories (rings, case). At those budget prices an improvement adds significant extra cost.

We may see FPL55 slowly substituting fpl53. Don't get surprised if the old line is discontinued.

Hello Sanbai,

I do believe you are correct. I have a couple of APM XWA  5mm110° and 13mm 100° eyepieces and I highly recomend them, their performance way out performes their price points At $299.00 USD.They beat out the ES 100° line of eyepieces but are close but not quite up to the performance of Televue's Ethos line. 

 

On another Topic Forum there was a good discussion on the glass used for the lenses. 

Dealing with the surprising quality of the Altair Starwave Ascent 102ED F/11 scopes, TS Optics, also sells this scope under their branding manufactured by KUO.They use FPL51 glass on this scope. Many people have reported that their Altair or TS Optics F/11 scopes that runs  about $749.00  approaches the performance of a premium scope I will testify to that notion by my own observations. And I fully understand why this scope has a such a vibrant Cult following. Any how it comes down to good engineering and good manufacturing execution. The long focal ratio of this scope just allows for any of the manufacturing deficiencies to not be realized as much at the eyepiece. I have owned scopes that should have performed much better by the components listed by the manufacturer, top glass plus a Lanthanum element and these scope were rather disappointing at the eyepiece. These scopes had good components and all but the manufacturing execution was poor. I dont pay as much attention to the glass type listed for the lenses as much as I do, actual reviews of the product from real people like your self. KUO, really does a marvelous job by putting out surprisingly  good products at reasonable price points. Astronomics Astrotech scopes are also manufactured by KUO, I have two of them an AT60ED and a AT102ED and none has any bad habits. So any new line of scopes by KUO catches my interest.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

My favorite viewing  arrangement, all Kunming United Optic scopes.

 

20201225 164253

Edited by Jethro7, 30 March 2021 - 09:22 PM.

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#24 Astronoob82

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:06 PM

What, am I the only one who'd buy one just for the anodized blue accents? lol.gif

Seriously, I've been thinking about an AT92, so this is an interesting development...

I'm visual only (for now anyway) and have no beef with either my f/5 ST80 or ST120.


I just got an AT92 a few weeks ago and everything from the focuser to the dew shield/front element looks almost the same. As far as the TMB design in the AT92 and whatever is in the TS90 im sure may be different. I'm very pleased so far with the AT92 and its a shame that the wait for a new run is probably 9 months to a year out if what I have been seeing is true. The new WO flt91 may be another good option for you to check out.
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#25 Voyager 3

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:35 PM

Did anybody notice that the 102mm F/7 comes with a 3.7" focuser (!) ?
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