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Newbie NV questions

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#1 Gschnettler

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 05:41 PM

I did read some of the newbie info on the site. I have a few basic beginner questions:

1) is NV always in monochrome or can you get color?

2) I don’t care for the green background I see in some photos. What would be a good starter NV device that isn’t green?

3) to get started, all you need is a C3 NV device and a 1.25” C3 adapter and then you can plop it in any telescope? And then you just get a few barlows to zoom in?

4) I see that some people use it with eyepieces, afocal. Is there any advantage to that? My understanding is that a device by itself acts like a 27mm eyepiece. So a 2X Barlow gives you 13.5” and a 3X gives you 9mm and 4X is about 6.75mm equiv. Is it better to use eyepieces and if so, do you need ones with special threads? Looks like Televue has some products designed for this.

5) has NV technology stabilized, or is it getting better and better with lower and lower prices from year to year? In other words, are the NV devices like cell phones or laptops where you expect to replace them every few years with better technology?

#2 Mazerski

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 10:13 PM

Based on your Qs:

 

1) White or Green Phosphor, no color

 

2) Others can chime in on starter NV as I don’t know

 

3) NV device with c-mount nosepiece does allow for a ScopeStuff c-mount to 1.25” adapter (the 1.25” filter screws in at front of adapter), then yes, slide in focuser. You can zoom and it depends on what the DSO is as the focal ratio increases and the view will be darker. Ok for bright globular clusters as example but not really useful on the Veil Nebula. Emission nebula does best at fast f ratio and lower power as many are surprisingly large

 

4) I have not used in Afocal mode

 

5) No no and no. But who knows what’s ahead



#3 slavicek

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 10:16 PM

1. At this time NV is monochrome only. Most people use white phosphorus technology, so the views are more natural.

2. Again the latest technology is white phosphorus. Also, it is more expensive.

3. if you mean MOD C3 then yes you are correct. Add some filters too.

4. Afocal use gives you wider FOV, which is what you want for large nebulas. I've used NV with barlows but that dims the image.

5. No it's not like I-phone. Prices will likely increase.



#4 Joko

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 04:03 AM

2) I don’t care for the green background I see in some photos. What would be a good starter NV device that isn’t green?
 

You will probably like your green color NVD, but if you compare with white phosporus tube, you will probably like it better.

White phosphorus is very close to natural view.



#5 bobhen

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 07:19 AM

1. Yes NV is always monochrome. But ask yourself, how much color do you see in deep sky objects when observed "visually"?

 

2. The green color is exaggerated in videos and photos. On most objects observed it is not seen as green but more as a gray. Even with the intensifier, there is not enough light from most DS objects to trigger a strong green response in your eyes. If your budget is “tight”, you will not be disappointed with a high quality green tube.

 

3. Yes. Using the  ScopeStuff c-mount to 1.25” adapter you attach the adapter to the Intensifier and use the Intensifier just like an eyepiece. You can add Barlows to increase magnification and image scale but you can also add reducers to get lower magnification and widen the field. Using NO eyepieces in the optical train is call Prime focus observing. The 1.25-inch filters that are necessary to get the best NV experience are also less expensive in the 1.25-inch size versus the 2-inch size.

 

4. There are some advantages to both Prime and Afocal observing (search some threads in this forum that go into detail). However, one of the disadvantages with the Tele Vue system that uses a PVS-14 intensifier is that you are ALWAYS locked into using afocal. This is not the case with all intensifiers. The simplicity of the optical train when using Prime is also an advantage, as seen below.

 

5. No, I would not expect the technology to offer lower prices. The technology does not use computer components like “chips” that have a history of getting smaller, more powerful and cheaper. In the future there might “someday” be a digital alternative to the image intensifier but not currently.

 

HERE is a website that offers some advice on getting started. 

 

To give you an idea, below is how I use my intensifier in Prime Observing mode for all of my telescopes.

 

From left to right…

1. The refractor optical tube, or any OTA
2. A GSO 2” focuser, or any 2” focuser
3. An Astro-Physics 2” diagonal (these have short light paths)
4. Optional: An Antares 2” .7 reducer (the reducer screws onto the bottom of the 2” to 1.25” adapter that comes with most diagonals or can be bought separately)
5. The 2” to 1.25 adapter that comes with most 2” diagonals
6. 1.25” filter (Ha or Pass) 6 or 7nm Ha filters are popular, 685 pass filters are popular in "heavy" light pollution
7. C-mount to 1.25” adapter (screwed onto the nose of the intensifier)
6. The NVD Micro Image Intensifier

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

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#6 Gschnettler

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 09:42 AM

Thank you,.  I read through Pete’s introductory page.  Very helpful.  He mentions 4 main devices to choose from, but it seems like the Mod3 would be the best one to get:

 

PVS-7 - no manual gain control

PVS-14 - afocal only

NVD Micro - no manual gain control

Mod3 - manual gain control and white tube

 

The information and videos I’ve watched really stress the benefits of the manual gain control. And I think I would like the white phosphor tube. 

 

The Mod3 seems kind of expensive but I know that’s the main thing about this part of the hobby.  

 

I think I would mainly use the Mod-3 for 1X views as well as prime views with various telescopes.  But can you use the Mod3 as afocal if you want?

 

Also, is this a special version that is somehow better for astronomy use?

- MOD-3 ASTRO C-Mount Night Vision Monocular with Gain Control - Filmless White Phosphor - This MOD-3 C has a high performance L-3 filmless white phosphor image intensification tube that has been specially selected for Astronomy use.



#7 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 10:49 AM

1. Yes NV is always monochrome. But ask yourself, how much color do you see in deep sky objects when observed "visually"?

 

And it has always been that way - until the NV detractors suddenly were claiming to see color in DSO's as a reason not to do NV. (You had to be here a few years ago for those flame wars.)

 

It kind of made me think of the old Seinfeld episode about the Technicolor Dream Coat:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=aC2kF6GGHHw



#8 bobhen

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 12:41 PM

Thank you,.  I read through Pete’s introductory page.  Very helpful.  He mentions 4 main devices to choose from, but it seems like the Mod3 would be the best one to get:

 

PVS-7 - no manual gain control

PVS-14 - afocal only

NVD Micro - no manual gain control

Mod3 - manual gain control and white tube

 

The information and videos I’ve watched really stress the benefits of the manual gain control. And I think I would like the white phosphor tube. 

 

The Mod3 seems kind of expensive but I know that’s the main thing about this part of the hobby.  

 

I think I would mainly use the Mod-3 for 1X views as well as prime views with various telescopes.  But can you use the Mod3 as afocal if you want?

 

Also, is this a special version that is somehow better for astronomy use?

- MOD-3 ASTRO C-Mount Night Vision Monocular with Gain Control - Filmless White Phosphor - This MOD-3 C has a high performance L-3 filmless white phosphor image intensification tube that has been specially selected for Astronomy use.

Again, if budgets are “tight”, a tube spec that is down a few notches will still knock you out. As will a green tube. Of course, a high spec, Mod 3, white, with gain, is very desirable and get it if you can afford it, but it is not absolutely necessary.

 

Yes, you can use a Mod 3 afocally.

 

The tube listed has high specs but nothing “special” per se for astronomy. But you will pay for those tube specs. You can get a “nice performing” tube for a thousand or two less. Do some research (search tube specs in this forum). For example, a “good tube” might have a resolution of 64 or greater, EBI of 1 or less and SNR greater than 25 with 0 blem. And compare those specs with the “excellent tube” specs they quote. There are of course in-between specs with in-between prices as well.

 

Bob



#9 Gschnettler

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 06:30 PM

I just took at the OVNI website.  Is that the really expensive stuff?



#10 cnoct

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 03:54 AM

Re-furbed PVS-7D's for $1200 seem to be available from https://www.nvdevice...vision-goggles/ .

 

Seems a good opportunity for those looking for low entry cost, those who want to take a dip without taking a soak or those that are just curious.



#11 Mario_S

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 05:02 AM

Hi!

I used a PVS-7 with FOM about 1000, green phosphor and no gain control.
Now I have a good OVNI-B.

 

The green PVS-7 war fun, but the OVNI-B is many times better. Another world again.

Here a Livestream with my old PVS-7: https://www.youtube....h?v=hMOnlolWoaQ
And here with the new OVNI-B: https://www.youtube....h?v=OsFx4e4rqWk

So you can compare what is possible with more inexpensive solutions.
Mario



#12 Gschnettler

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 08:19 AM

A $1200 PVS-7 does seem like a good price point to try it out (better than $5000).

Is there a good used market for these? Meaning, could I get a good portion of this money back if I decide to upgrade later?

Is it easy to put a 1.25” adapter on the PVS-7 so that I can use it at prime focus?

Can you also use the PVS-7 as afocal?

Finally, do you see any reason why I’d have problems doing these things with my two scopes? I have a 12” f/5 dob and an AT72EDII.

Edited by Gschnettler, 05 April 2021 - 08:30 AM.


#13 Mazerski

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 09:43 AM

For the 1.25" adapter... yes, use ScopeStuff C-mount to 1.25". Can use like this in focuser or filter wheel.

You will also want the ScopeStuff C-mount to 2" adapter to use a focal reducer in your f/5 scope.

 

More info available if you need more... see photos:

 

PVS7 with C-mount nosepiece

Nikon C to F adapter for hand held mode

1.25" adapter

2" adapter with optional focal reducer (also from ScopeStuff, the Antares brand does focus, true for the 2" 0.7x and 2" 0.5x

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#14 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 09:58 AM

Re-furbed PVS-7D's for $1200 seem to be available from https://www.nvdevice...vision-goggles/ .

 

Seems a good opportunity for those looking for low entry cost, those who want to take a dip without taking a soak or those that are just curious.

 

Got to say, I am tempted to grab one of those for the girlfriend to use as a low power hand-held unit.

 

She has been spoiled by NV, she doesn't want to look thru my regular eyepieces anymore. Tele Vue, Docter, Leica, and Zeiss are just too pedestrian for her lol.gif


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#15 cnoct

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 11:11 AM

A $1200 PVS-7 does seem like a good price point to try it out (better than $5000).

Is there a good used market for these? Meaning, could I get a good portion of this money back if I decide to upgrade later?

 

^  At $1200, without a question.
 


Is it easy to put a 1.25” adapter on the PVS-7 so that I can use it at prime focus?

 

 ^  as easy as, thread off - thread on...

 

Can you also use the PVS-7 as afocal?


^. Absolutely you can, the objective on the 7's are the same as on the 14's so what works on the 14 will work on the 7's.
 

 

Finally, do you see any reason why I’d have problems doing these things with my two scopes? I have a 12” f/5 dob and an AT72EDII.

 

^  There's always that chance but usually simple solutions are often found.



#16 cnoct

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 11:16 AM

Yea, $1200 with a 1 year warranty is stupid cheap, that's close to the price some places sell just the housing kit for.  

 

The price is so low that's there's really no gamble, one could easily recoup that buy in price selling it on the second hand market.

 

 

Got to say, I am tempted to grab one of those for the girlfriend to use as a low power hand-held unit.

 

She has been spoiled by NV, she doesn't want to look thru my regular eyepieces anymore. Tele Vue, Docter, Leica, and Zeiss are just too pedestrian for her lol.gif

 

My optics room is a bit full or I'd hit it up, do for another NV purchase anyway but I'm holding out for the a Photonis/NVLS system with f/1.14 broad band (350 - 1100nm) objectives.


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#17 Gschnettler

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 12:05 AM

I just ordered one. I normally would have done much more research, but I got concerned about the “supplies limited” wording and didn’t want to miss out. Plus I trust you guys and your recommendations.

#18 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 02:33 AM

I just ordered one. I normally would have done much more research, but I got concerned about the “supplies limited” wording and didn’t want to miss out. Plus I trust you guys and your recommendations.

 

Go have fun with it for a few months, at a minimum it will suggest the possibilities to be had with a newer higher spec tube.

 

And when it is all over and you decide to stay Conventional or go All In, you can sell it and probably lose no more than the shipping costs.



#19 AllStarez

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 03:38 AM

Nice move, it is « out of stock »



#20 Gschnettler

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 06:37 PM

Alright, so I ordered this:

https://www.nvdevice...vision-goggles/

But...now I am concerned that I may have made a mistake. Is it possible and or will it be easy for me to unscrew the nosepiece and replace it with a c-mount? I just learned that there may be grease inside that could contaminate things.

Any advice and help would be much appreciated!

#21 shohin

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 06:46 PM

Alright, so I ordered this:

https://www.nvdevice...vision-goggles/

But...now I am concerned that I may have made a mistake. Is it possible and or will it be easy for me to unscrew the nosepiece and replace it with a c-mount? I just learned that there may be grease inside that could contaminate things.

Any advice and help would be much appreciated!

The whole front end screws off and you attach a c-mount adapter such as this:

 

https://www.ebay.com...KAAAOSwHv1d89AQ

 

To this adapter you attach a c-mount to 1.25" eyepiece adapter such as this:

 

https://www.ebay.com...yUAAOSw9shf~m0p

 

BTW, do you know anything about the specs of the tube you are getting?  If no specs, is it at least a Gen III tube?



#22 shohin

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 07:02 PM

This is another c-mount adapter.  This one can be inserted directly into a 2" focuser (up to the third step of the adapter).  Or you can still screw a 1.25" adapter to the nose.  Unfortunately this one comes packaged with some sort of commercial c-mount lens that you may or may not need.

 

https://www.ebay.com...oAAAOSwkgxetYy7



#23 Gschnettler

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 09:03 PM

It says it’s a Gen 3 tube:

From the website:

“These AN/PVS-7B/D Refurbished Night Vision Goggles feature a Gen 3, green phosphor image tube originally manufactured by one of these prior brands: ITT Night Vision, Harris, or Exelis. Each comes with a 1 year warranty and a new standard accessory kit.”

#24 Gschnettler

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 12:30 PM

Ok, so I need to get a c-mount for the PVS-7 and then probably a c-mount to 1.25” adapter. Or 2” adapter

Two more questions:

1) is there any point to doing 2”? The PVS-7 field of view is pretty narrow, right? What benefit would there be to using a 2” adapter and then buying 2” filters, etc?

2) the c-mount takes care of the part that goes into the telescope. But what about the side that you look through? It appears that mine is going to come with some sort of binocular setup with a head strap. Should I plan to use that? Or can I disconnect it all and then reassemble it as a monocular?

#25 shohin

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 01:04 PM

1) Going 2" (using the second c-mount adapter) allows you to insert the PVS-7 deeper into the focuser, if that is necessary for you to achieve focus.  Adding a 1.25" adapter to the c-mount adapter pushes you further out.  Sort of like a Morpheus eyepiece.  You may have to experiment a bit to see what works for you.  I have no input on 2" filters.  I only have 1.25".

 

2) You won't need the headgear.  You'll use the PVS-7 essentially as pictured in the listing.  The only disassembly you will do is remove the lens when you want to swap in the c-mount adapter.  It's a biocular, not a monocular.  It doesn't break down into two monoculars like a Mod3 binocular.




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