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First light with a high spec PVS 14

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#1 Jethro7

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 10:04 PM

Hello Cners,

I finally had First light with my new NV device without a bright Moon. For other Newbys one piece of advice that I give you is buy the best tube you can. The first wonderful aspect that I noticed is I could turn down the gain till there was almost zero scintellation before losing resolution. I tried all the filters that I had 7nm, 12nm Ha Longpass filters and both the 610nm and 542 IR Longpass filters. The 7nm Ha and the 642nm were the ones that worked the best by far. Thank you Bobhen, and Mazerski, you were on the spot here. I know now that I need to try a shorter wave length Ha and a 685nm filters.

Mazerski, you are right M42 does "looks wicked with the 642 IR Longpass filter".  

I stayed out under the stars pretty much all night even though I had to work today. I just did not want to call it quits. I am sort of grateful in a odd way that tonight is cloudy, I need the rest. Sunday night is going to be clear skies and I am waiting with the kind of anticipation that a child has on the night before Christmas.

 

Night Vision Astronomy does present one huge problem. You very quickly begin to notice that all of your Celestial visual references are useless especially when viewing open clusters. I know exactly what M36, M37, M38 and other clusters look like through conventional eyepieces. They look totally different, nearly unreconisable with Night Vision, lost in a sea of stars. What a wonderful problem to have. Another good thing that happened was I finally found somthing that my C8 Edge HD scope was good at. It has been sitting around unused for quite sometime now, having fallen out of favor for refractors and the Dob and it was nice to be using it again. 

 

Thank you everone for your help and guidance, it is much appreciated.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

 

 


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#2 a__l

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 03:34 AM

For other Newbys one piece of advice that I give you is buy the best tube you can. 

What other did you compare your tube to?

Just numbers.

Take the OMNI 7 specification for example (2006 year).

http://aunv.blackice...ions&story=omni

https://usnightvisio...ision-tutorial/

Photocathode sensitivity 2200 minimum, maybe more

What is your tube? 2700?

2700/2200 = 1.2 difference

С8 - f/10

cheap Chinese newt 8" f/4

10/4=2.5 difference

1 magnitude = ~2.5 difference


Edited by a__l, 04 April 2021 - 03:34 AM.


#3 bobhen

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 06:19 AM

Wait until you observe Cygnus. Use a low power wide field scope. Cygnus looks like one big cloud.

 

Spring is galaxy season so use the C8 for image scale. The galaxies in the Virgo cluster will just pop into view.

 

Clusters don't get much press but they are much richer with NV. Try resolving 1907 the small cluster near M38 or 2158 the small cluster near M35.

 

Bob


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#4 Jethro7

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 07:40 AM

What other did you compare your tube to?

Just numbers.

Take the OMNI 7 specification for example (2006 year).

http://aunv.blackice...ions&story=omni

https://usnightvisio...ision-tutorial/

Photocathode sensitivity 2200 minimum, maybe more

What is your tube? 2700?

2700/2200 = 1.2 difference

С8 - f/10

cheap Chinese newt 8" f/4

10/4=2.5 difference

1 magnitude = ~2.5 difference

Hello a__i,

 My comparison came from memory. My new PVS 14's spec are so much higher than the one I owned briefly.  Certainly so far advanced than the NVD's that I was issued in my past life, those were junk by comparison. I'm not sure if I am allowed to print the exact specs of my PVS14 ?

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 04 April 2021 - 12:25 PM.


#5 Jethro7

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:55 AM

Wait until you observe Cygnus. Use a low power wide field scope. Cygnus looks like one big cloud.

 

Spring is galaxy season so use the C8 for image scale. The galaxies in the Virgo cluster will just pop into view.

 

Clusters don't get much press but they are much richer with NV. Try resolving 1907 the small cluster near M38 or 2158 the small cluster near M35.

 

Bob

Hello Bob,

You can count on it. With any luck, tonight, it should be clear. 

I'm not sure why clusters are  kind of shoved to the curb? They are always on my to do list. The 1907 cluster near M38 was resolved for the first time on my first light. I had to look that one up on SkySafari to identify it. I never new it was there. Maybe my love of viewing clusters has something to do with the fact that over the years, I have never lost the child like excitement with the wonder and the anticipation of what is to come and the new discoveries  that may unfold before me on my next viewing session. This new NVD just added a entirely new and powerful dimension of what is possible now. It is a whole new world out there and I will have to learn some new things but that is half the fun. This new world has me pondering on what my next scope purchase should be. I was thinking before I wanted a 6" class APO but now I am thinking that maybe a larger Dob may be the ticket??? I am not sure if there is a point that the aperture size might start working against me for NVA, or go for one of those premium ultra fast Newt astrographs like a Takahashi 180- Epsilons. I would try a used cheap Astrograph Newt first and see if a upgrade is warranted. I know that in the world of conventional viewing in a light polluted area, aperture has its limits before it starts to work against you.  Thank you Bob, for your Wisdom and guidance, it is much appreciated.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro 


Edited by Jethro7, 04 April 2021 - 11:42 AM.

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#6 a__l

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 01:00 PM

Hello a__i,

 My comparison came from memory. My new PVS 14's spec are so much higher than the one I owned briefly.  Certainly so far advanced than the NVD's that I was issued in my past life, those were junk by comparison. I'm not sure if I am allowed to print the exact specs of my PVS14 ?

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

I don't think PVS-14 is a junk. It may have been faulty. You can see more by replacing your telescope and using a standard, serviceable PVS-14.



#7 Jethro7

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 05:49 PM

I don't think PVS-14 is a junk. It may have been faulty. You can see more by replacing your telescope and using a standard, serviceable PVS-14.

Hello a__i,

I am really not sure, maybe you misunderstood me or I was not clear. My first PVS 14 was just serviceable for Astronomy. It is having fun in the hunting world now. The PVS7's I was issued, probably Gen 1's and 2's were junk compared to my new PVS 14. I guess that the point that I was trying to make was, in this Genre of Astronomy and all visual Astronomy for that matter, all we are doing is gathering Photons and the efficiency that your equipment can collect, arrange and focus those Photons will make a huge difference in the quality of the image that you will have at the eyepiece. The Top end NVD tubes are well worth that price The difference in the image quality between a  $3,000.00 filmed tube and a $ 4,300.00  unfilmed tube is dramatic. Sure you can pair a serviceable PVS14 with a better scope and get better results. Pair a high spec unfilmed tube PVS14 with that same scope and the difference in the image quality will most certainly be noticeably improved over the lower spec PVS14 at the eyepiece. This noticable increase in image quality was well worth the extra $ 1300.00 difference that I paid. I feel that this is certainly one of those areas in the Astro Gear world that if you can afford the extra money for a higher spec PVS14, do it. You will be rewarded. The images produced by my new PVS14 are a lot like viewing with a conventional eyepiece. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 04 April 2021 - 05:55 PM.


#8 a__l

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 06:19 PM

In Europe, the price differs significantly.
It would be curious to compare the photocathode sensitivity 2200 and 2700+ side by side on astronomical objects
Difference in sensitivity 20% +
This figure is easy to obtain using faster optics (example above ~ 250%)

 

I have no opportunity to buy such a tube 2700+ . But I do not see the difference in what is published here and what I see. There are many ways to improve the performance of the Telescope + NV system. So I doubt the starting statement.

 

An additional factor from my experience. Transparency of the atmosphere. If your site does not provide this, your tube will not work at full capacity.


Edited by a__l, 04 April 2021 - 06:47 PM.


#9 Mazerski

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 12:21 AM

Jethro,

 

Nice report and glad that you are back in the game.


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#10 Jethro7

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 02:16 AM

Jethro,

 

Nice report and glad that you are back in the game.

Hello Mazerski,

Thank you. Tonight was very enjoyable, it is most definitely  Galaxie season. I just secured from my stargazing detail. I started out with M108, M101, M109, NGC's 3738 and 3756 in Ursus Major. Then moved on to the Whirlpool and Suflower Galaxies in Canes Venatici. I have dreamed of being able to view the Whirlpool Galaxie from my backyard and there it was. Then it was off to that amazing Open Cluster of Galaxies between Denebola in Leo and Vindemiatrix in Vergo. Oh my Galaxies everywhere. I had as many as five in the field of view at the same time. There were just to many to keep track of. I wished that I could have stayed out longer but I have to be up in a couple of hours for work. It is good go be back in the game.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND HAPPY GALAXIE HUNTING, KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#11 Mazerski

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 10:31 AM

Jethro,

 

Just think, after you look at M86, the Needle or Spindle, Sombrero... the globulars will be next (M22 is big) and the 4 summer nebula left of Antares. My opinion is M17 ( Omega) is the most spectacular emission nebula of all.


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#12 Jethro7

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 02:52 PM

Jethro,

 

Just think, after you look at M86, the Needle or Spindle, Sombrero... the globulars will be next (M22 is big) and the 4 summer nebula left of Antares. My opinion is M17 ( Omega) is the most spectacular emission nebula of all.

Hello Mazerski,

Will do my friend. I have a 585nm IR Longpass filter on the way, I think I tracked down and bought the last one available.Agena Astro had one left as well as a Televue 67mm adaptor for the TV55 Plossl.  I will borrow and try out a 3.2nm and a 6nm Ha filter and see if any of them provide a noticeable improvment. Otherwise that money will be better spent on a fast Newt. I dont really remember who advised me to upgrade the NVD, I sure owe them a big THANK YOU, that was money very well spent. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 05 April 2021 - 05:53 PM.


#13 a__l

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 06:18 PM

The best view of galaxies (list above) without filters in a good sky. In the prime focus of a fast telescope. I saw this this spring with my 24" f/3.3


Edited by a__l, 05 April 2021 - 06:21 PM.

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#14 The Ardent

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 06:42 PM

Jethro7,

 

Look at W Cancri with normal visual eyepiece, the NV (either IR filter or no filter) and let me know what you think. 

 

I don’t want to spoil it for you. 


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#15 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 02:47 AM

My opinion is M17 ( Omega) is the most spectacular emission nebula of all.

 

Well, I could not argue with Opinion. And M17 is a solid choice, incredibly bright.

 

But he better have a head harness on when he turns to Cygnus, otherwise he could suffer and injury from the jaw hitting the ground.


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#16 Jethro7

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 08:41 AM

Jethro7,

 

Look at W Cancri with normal visual eyepiece, the NV (either IR filter or no filter) and let me know what you think. 

 

I don’t want to spoil it for you. 

Hello The Ardent,

Will do on my next opportunity.

 

Thanks And KEEP LOOLING UP Jethro.



#17 Jethro7

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 09:05 AM

Well, I could not argue with Opinion. And M17 is a solid choice, incredibly bright.

 

But he better have a head harness on when he turns to Cygnus, otherwise he could suffer and injury from the jaw hitting the ground.

Hello Jeff,

LOL, Sagitarius, is a amazing Constellation even without NV. The first good night I had with the NVD, I could not locate my jaw on the ground do to the tears in my eyes. 

 

This is a whole new ball game. This NVD just kicks the mess out of my first one. I have some studying and cyphering to do now. Dealing with finding a better scope. Maybe I can win the Powerball and buy the Atacama Obsevatory in Chile. LOL... Seriously I am pondering my next scope purchase and it will be geared with NV in mind. 

 

Jeff, how did you like your Takahashi Epsilon?

 

HAPPY BRAND NEW SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro.


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#18 pwang99

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 11:23 AM

 

Another good thing that happened was I finally found somthing that my C8 Edge HD scope was good at. It has been sitting around unused for quite sometime now, having fallen out of favor for refractors and the Dob and it was nice to be using it again.

 

During galaxy season, your C8 is going to be good at things like Needle, Markarian, Sombrero...

 

During summer, no matter how much your jaw drops under light polluted skies, don't fail to drive out to dark skies.  Under Bortle 1 I was able to barlow up my C11 and gaze into the heart of the Crescent Nebula.

 

I'll bet that this summer, your AT60 or AT102 is going to get a LOT of use.  But keep in mind: as good as the H-alpha views are, don't fail to look at Sagittarius in NV unfiltered (under dark skies, if possible).  The wisps of dark nebula in the star fields are just sublime.


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#19 PEterW

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 04:34 PM

Good thing Orion has gone away for a while...! Don’t miss out on 1x and 3x views of starfields I quite like the heart nebula, summer is round the corner and then you get from Cepheus, through cygnus all the way to saggitarius. Consider getting a copy of the astrophotography sky atlas by Bracken as your chart of choice for NV. Great to hear of another NV convert.

Peter
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#20 Jethro7

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 07:31 PM

During galaxy season, your C8 is going to be good at things like Needle, Markarian, Sombrero...

 

During summer, no matter how much your jaw drops under light polluted skies, don't fail to drive out to dark skies.  Under Bortle 1 I was able to barlow up my C11 and gaze into the heart of the Crescent Nebula.

 

I'll bet that this summer, your AT60 or AT102 is going to get a LOT of use.  But keep in mind: as good as the H-alpha views are, don't fail to look at Sagittarius in NV unfiltered (under dark skies, if possible).  The wisps of dark nebula in the star fields are just sublime.

Hello Thank you Pwang99,

Between you and Eddgie, Cnoct, Jeff Morgan, The Ardent and Vondragonnoggin, and most recently Bobhen and Mazerski.That this whole NVA endeavor is up and running. It started when I happened upon a bunch of your post and articles written by you and the others from years ago and CNocts videos on Youtube. Which brought back wonderful memories of looking up at the stars in North West Africa under very pristine skies with the NVD's issued to us and that got me to pondering " I think I need one of those" My first attempt at NVA was not a failure but there is a huge difference between my first device and the device I have now. I should have ponied up in the first place and bought the high spec tube in the beginning. The difference in cost was only about $1500.00 more and that's really pretty cheap for what you get out of it. Generally with Astronomy equipment you get what you pay for but there are always exceptions to that rule, the Astrotech scopes are one. NVD's are not. Even without a NVD I have never  gotten bored with Amatuer astronomy even under my moderately light polluted skies in my back yard but this new NVD just added a whole new amazing  dimension  to my Astronomy world that is just further fueling my addiction. I have a list of Celestial artifacts going but it will take time to get to all of them. A couple of nights ago I spent hours just viewing  the area in and between constellations Leo and Cancer, that are just full of Galaxies, Just absolutly stunning. But I will make my way around the skies eventually. Just way too many artifacts to view in one night. 

 

A SPECIAL THANK YOU to everone that responded to my Topic's you have all made a huge and totally amazing difference in my enjoyment in this hobby. This one is a big ONE.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND HAPPY GALAXY HUNTING AND MOST OF ALL KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#21 Jethro7

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 07:36 PM

Good thing Orion has gone away for a while...! Don’t miss out on 1x and 3x views of starfields I quite like the heart nebula, summer is round the corner and then you get from Cepheus, through cygnus all the way to saggitarius. Consider getting a copy of the astrophotography sky atlas by Bracken as your chart of choice for NV. Great to hear of another NV convert.

Peter

Hello Peter,

Will do. Thank you. If my NVD were to be lost I would replace it as fast as I could.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

P.S. "Astrophotography Sky Atlas" by Charles Bracken is ordered found a used like new one on Ebay. 


Edited by Jethro7, 06 April 2021 - 07:46 PM.


#22 Jethro7

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 08:56 PM

Jethro7,

 

Look at W Cancri with normal visual eyepiece, the NV (either IR filter or no filter) and let me know what you think. 

 

I don’t want to spoil it for you. 

Hello The Ardent,

Is W Cancri, known under another name I cant seem to locate it on a chart?

Thank you and KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

P.S. Found it, a giant star. (AKA Omega 1 Cancri) Visible only at a Dark sky site. I am guessing it will be with NV.


Edited by Jethro7, 06 April 2021 - 09:44 PM.


#23 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 01:34 AM

Hello Jeff,

LOL, Sagitarius, is a amazing Constellation even without NV. The first good night I had with the NVD, I could not locate my jaw on the ground do to the tears in my eyes. 

 

This is a whole new ball game. This NVD just kicks the mess out of my first one. I have some studying and cyphering to do now. Dealing with finding a better scope. Maybe I can win the Powerball and buy the Atacama Obsevatory in Chile. LOL... Seriously I am pondering my next scope purchase and it will be geared with NV in mind. 

 

Jeff, how did you like your Takahashi Epsilon?

 

HAPPY BRAND NEW SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro.

 

I loved the Epsilon. If you are looking for something in the 500mm range, it is amazing.

 

In prime focus mode stars were sharp all the way to the edge. No aberrations, flat field. Good aperture, good field. Rock solid mechanicals, could hold collimation for many, many sessions. I was checking it every six to eight months, it was refractor-like in stability.

 

It has a reputation as being hard to collimate, but I went in with a Newtonian mindset (and toolset!) and everything worked out great. BTW, I was not impressed with the Tak collimation tube. Used the Texas Nautical secondary alignment template (recommended!), a Tectron 1.25" sight tube, Tectron 1.25" Cheshire, and a Glatter thin beam laser. Orient the tube vertically so gravity is your friend, and only use one set of the opposing primary collimation screws. Either pullers or pushers, depending upon whether the tube is facing up or down.

 

Once you have it where you want it, gently tighten down the opposing screws. And don't forget, the Epsilon has side-mounted 2mm cell set screws, these must be loosened before beginning. And they will be the last ones you tighten.

 

The Epsilon comes with a 1.25" focuser. Since you have a PVS-14 and do afocal, you would want to get a 2" focuser to take advantage of 2" eyepieces. 

 

Once I ordered the 16" f/2.8 mirror set from Mike Lockwood, it made the Epsilon somewhat redundant for me so I sold it. Still miss it though.


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#24 Jethro7

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 07:19 AM

I loved the Epsilon. If you are looking for something in the 500mm range, it is amazing.

 

 

Hello Jeff,

Thank you. It looks like the basic rules are still intact with one extra concideration at hand. GO BIG, GO FAST.  go small go fast

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 07 April 2021 - 07:22 AM.


#25 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 07:38 PM

Hello Jeff,

Thank you. It looks like the basic rules are still intact with one extra concideration at hand. GO BIG, GO FAST.  go small go fast

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

Yes, I concluded that it is much easier to make an inherently fast mirror go slow (when needed) than to make an inherently slow mirror go fast.

 

For someone just getting into NV astronomy, getting by with the scope already owned makes sense.

 

But eventually, they will "see the light".


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