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Any APOs you would avoid?

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#1 godelescher

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:16 AM

There's an inherent compulsion in all of us to make glowing recommendations about the telescopes we own. I do it, too. Unfortunately, that bias makes the recommendations maybe not so reliable.

 

I think it might be more objectively helpful to me to find out what people dislike about some APOs. So I'm asking this question:

 

What APOs in the 80mm - 120mm range do you NOT recommend and why?


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#2 Dynan

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:29 AM

I found out, after buying a scope and returning it for severe chromatic aberration, that glass quality is very important. The two scopes of the same brand and design had a big difference in FCD-1 glass and FCD100. Something to consider, no matter the brand.


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#3 salico

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:33 AM

I really don't like the TSA 120 by Takahashi at all, they are total rubish - so if anyone wants to get rid of it, I might consider to take one for free,,,


Edited by salico, 04 April 2021 - 08:33 AM.

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#4 StarAlert

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:38 AM

I would not recommend a Tak DZ. It could be months before they are available again. And I can’t recommend a DL, either because Takahashi doesn’t make them anymore. 


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#5 junomike

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:42 AM

Recommend is different for Visual vs AP.


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#6 Supernova74

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:51 AM

Well if that covers products from China also as I don,t often here a bad one comming off the assembly line as like most things APO refractor related attack of the clones!?in most part are very similer apart from an odd accessory or two perhaps slight improvements over the focuser.doublets in most cases are for visual observers and the triplets and Quads for imaging 



#7 Mirzam

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 09:13 AM

This is an easy question to answer.  Avoid any triplet that does not have a company that stands behind the product and is willing to provide customer service.  It’s also helpful if said company is not on the other side of an ocean. Triplets are not always trouble free, and they tend not to be user serviceable.  
 

JimC


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#8 godelescher

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 09:26 AM

This is an easy question to answer.  Avoid any triplet that does not have a company that stands behind the product and is willing to provide customer service.  It’s also helpful if said company is not on the other side of an ocean. Triplets are not always trouble free, and they tend not to be user serviceable.  
 

JimC

Such as?



#9 Kevin_A

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 09:41 AM

I know its a doublet but I wouldn’t recommend a WO Z61 Mark2 due to pinched optics and odd corner star shapes in all directions. Had mine replaced and same thing again. It is well made but even with zero tenson on the 4 rear lens cell screws it still is pinched badly when below 32F. Big stars look like they exploded! The only way i can image is by putting 4 lens heater dew straps around it. Some people have no issues where some are nightmares. I don’t expect much from a low cost doublet scope but it has made me rethink WO products made recently. Your milage may vary!


Edited by Kevin_A, 04 April 2021 - 09:52 AM.

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#10 Phillip Creed

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 09:59 AM

I know its a doublet but I wouldn’t recommend a WO Z61 Mark2 due to pinched optics and odd corner star shapes in all directions. Had mine replaced and same thing again. It is well made but even with zero tenson on the 4 rear lens cell screws it still is pinched badly when below 32F. Big stars look like they exploded! The only way i can image is by putting 4 lens heater dew straps around it. Some people have no issues where some are nightmares. I don’t expect much from a low cost doublet scope but it has made me rethink WO products made recently. Your milage may vary!

Given similarities between models, I wonder if that's a problem with all 60mm f/6 doublets, though I haven't heard any reports of that with the AT60ED.

My strategy is to couple that with either a 0.8X reducer (288mm FL @ f/4.8) or, if I'm feeling adventurous, the 0.65X APEX-S (234mm @ f/3.9).

 

I'm wondering now, though, if the 60mm ED doublets are prone to this issue, whether or not just to couple my 135mm Samyang with either a 1.4X (189mm @ f/2.8) or 1.7X (230mm @ f/3.4) teleconverter.

Clear Skies,

Phil



#11 Mirzam

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 10:07 AM

Such as?

Depends on where you live, but I’m very comfortable owning and have owned TEC, AP, Stellarvue, and Takahashi telescopes.  I don’t have experience with customer service for any of the Chinese made brands so I can’t really comment on those.  An older APM scope was a big headache for me and APM is far away. YMMV.

 

JimC


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#12 25585

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 10:21 AM

I really don't like the TSA 120 by Takahashi at all, they are total rubbish - so if anyone wants to get rid of it, I might consider to take one for free,,,

Mine is going for free, but £4000.00 shipping charge lol.gif


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#13 25585

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 10:26 AM

Tele Vue NP101, some have collimation issues & they have to be sent back to Tele Vue for fixing, you pay both ways I understand. And TV don't do emails either. 


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#14 imtl

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 10:30 AM

Tele Vue NP101, some have collimation issues & they have to be sent back to Tele Vue for fixing, you pay both ways I understand. And TV don't do emails either. 

That's funny.



#15 godelescher

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 10:44 AM

Tele Vue NP101, some have collimation issues & they have to be sent back to Tele Vue for fixing, you pay both ways I understand. And TV don't do emails either. 

I didn't know that. That's good to know.

 

I know its a doublet but I wouldn’t recommend a WO Z61 Mark2 due to pinched optics and odd corner star shapes in all directions. Had mine replaced and same thing again. It is well made but even with zero tenson on the 4 rear lens cell screws it still is pinched badly when below 32F. Big stars look like they exploded! The only way i can image is by putting 4 lens heater dew straps around it. Some people have no issues where some are nightmares. I don’t expect much from a low cost doublet scope but it has made me rethink WO products made recently. Your milage may vary!

Also good to know



#16 Nippon

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:09 AM

I don't think asking CN members what scope to avoid is helpful. People tend to post about problems and disappointments with a product far more than post about products they are pleased with. 


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#17 skybsd

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:33 AM

I don't think asking CN members what scope to avoid is helpful. People tend to post about problems and disappointments with a product far more than post about products they are pleased with. 

THIS - for these and sadly other, more reprehensible reasons - as evidenced in some responses already submitted.., 

 

skybsd 


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#18 Supernova74

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:33 AM

Don,t get me wrong guys unless for AP,imaging purposes I can really see the appeal for obvious reasons because more and less completely colour free optics and flat feild of view with flattener,etc generally for long exposure deep sky imaging and planetary imaging!?however for visual observing you have to be a serious enthusiast to puchase one in my eyes anyway what’s the strong appeal and following all about please educate me!? Also the planets are not observable all year round anyway So anything below at least let’s say 6” aperture also considering sky conditions and transparency in true dark sky’s 

come into play and very important.why so much doller so to speak for an instrument is very limited in light gathering power 

As generally aperture always rules in most case kind of scenarios.don,t get me wrong I would love an large aperture APO refractor however I think I would feel very disappointed for deep sky observing in genral and to the average guy anything larger than 6” for most of us is out of reach for the most of us because of the price!?

 

(I apologise to moderators if this post is out of context to this thread however it was spare of the moment!?)


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#19 godelescher

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:34 AM

I don't think asking CN members what scope to avoid is helpful. People tend to post about problems and disappointments with a product far more than post about products they are pleased with. 

I haven't found that to be the case, but I appreciate your point of view.

 

I'm looking for the flaws so I can make an informed choice beyond the rose-colored glasses that many people wear when discussing their own telescopes. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but this is specifically the information I'm looking for.

 

No telescope is perfect, and I'd like to know what to expect before spending several thousand dollars. As an example, I know many refractors have push - pull screws for collimating, but I didn't know the TV-NP101 was prone to collimation issues and would have to be sent back to be collimated. That may or may not be a deal breaker, but it's information I want to know.

 

Maybe I could have found that info if I was specifically looking for it, but if I google (or search on CN) for reviews of that particular scope, I'm much more likely to hear about how everyone who bought one loves it and it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's much more convenient for me to get these helpful nuggets in one thread than have to track them down all over the internet.


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#20 StarAlert

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:53 AM

I don't think asking CN members what scope to avoid is helpful.

I agree.

 

Here's another thread with basically the same request. 

https://www.cloudyni...e#entry10658125



#21 StarAlert

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:57 AM

I haven't found that to be the case, but I appreciate your point of view.

 

I'm looking for the flaws so I can make an informed choice beyond the rose-colored glasses that many people wear when discussing their own telescopes. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but this is specifically the information I'm looking for.

 

No telescope is perfect, and I'd like to know what to expect before spending several thousand dollars. As an example, I know many refractors have push - pull screws for collimating, but I didn't know the TV-NP101 was prone to collimation issues and would have to be sent back to be collimated. That may or may not be a deal breaker, but it's information I want to know.

 

Maybe I could have found that info if I was specifically looking for it, but if I google (or search on CN) for reviews of that particular scope, I'm much more likely to hear about how everyone who bought one loves it and it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's much more convenient for me to get these helpful nuggets in one thread than have to track them down all over the internet.

Asking for general (negative) information about the universe of refractors between 80-120mm is inefficient. It might be more helpful if you provided us with a list of the refractors you're considering. 



#22 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 12:16 PM

Tele Vue NP101, some have collimation issues & they have to be sent back to Tele Vue for fixing, you pay both ways I understand. And TV don't do emails either. 

 

Refractors are not immune to collimation issues. Triplets are much more susceptible than doublets and probably have to go back to the factory for collimation.

 

I have an NP-101. The previous owner had messed with the collimation. I was able to align it myself.

 

https://www.cloudyni...g-my-tv-np-101/

 

TeleVue customer support is telephone based and you just might get Al Nagler.  When I had a question about my Paracorr 2, David Nagler answered and turned me over to Paul Dellechiaie, Paul designed the Paracorr 2.

 

It doesn't get any better than that...

 

Jon


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#23 Nippon

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 12:43 PM

I think that if an individual considers what they expect from a certain telescope carefully chosen for the intended purpose. Pick a brand with a good reputation for quality and customer service they will be pleased with the scope. This has been the best way to buy products always.


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#24 Phillip Creed

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 12:53 PM

If there's one "apo" I'd avoid, it's any iteration of the 110mm f/6 FPL-51 doublets (e.g. Orion 110 Eon, WO Megrez 110).  That's just too fast for FPL-51 glass and the lens cell isn't easy collimatible on the Orion 110 I had.  It was nerve-racking in the extreme to get that blasted thing recollimated.

Clear Skies,

Phil


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#25 Supernova74

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 01:35 PM

On a slighty different note tho would it be fair to scrutinise a particular brand name that particular user has used or perhaps had a bad experience with as a fair judgment!?im not sure on this how can we all possibly know if this is more hardcore proof by just one or two individuals have had a bad experience with that brand which I’m thinking it would be mainly the glass side of things so I’m not saying all reports and feedback being 100% accurate,myself personally would want more sufficient evidence to support the evidence that’s all!?.even more so the price point is definitely not cheap to say the least 

so in some circumstances I would take some cases by a narrow grain of salt that’s all.




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