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#51 Lookitup

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 12:16 AM

Bought and sold numerous things on CN and had no bad experience so far. Just make sure seller has good ratings! 

If I would get several offers with no acceptance, I would offer the first one to pay the highest offered price.

The biggest purchase I made so far was for a used Vixen SD115S. I send a check for $1,500 to the middle of Texas. Once the check was received, the seller send it without even waiting for the check to clear. Did not see the need to detail shipping cost etc. on the AD, since most CN folks stick to the honor system.bow.gif


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#52 bulletdodger

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:25 AM

     Unfortunately this turns every ad into an auction like Ebay. This could drag the time of the sale out almost indefinatly since the seller will just wait for the best offer once the ad has been posted. It could leave a potential buyer in a long time limbo waiting and not knowing until the seller decides no better offers are going to come his way.
      Next will come people sending PM's offering to buy the stuff listed in my signature which also may not be against the rules but it is very uncool.
Don't think we should travel down this road.


Edited by bulletdodger, 08 April 2021 - 07:25 AM.

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#53 sw196060

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:54 AM

     Unfortunately this turns every ad into an auction like Ebay. This could drag the time of the sale out almost indefinatly since the seller will just wait for the best offer once the ad has been posted. It could leave a potential buyer in a long time limbo waiting and not knowing until the seller decides no better offers are going to come his way.
      Next will come people sending PM's offering to buy the stuff listed in my signature which also may not be against the rules but it is very uncool.
Don't think we should travel down this road.

Naah, CN classifieds, and Astromart, have been around for decades.  This hasn't happened so, we shouldn't get too wound up over it.  It is something that happens infrequently, at most.

 

Personally, I would tend to sell to the first offer that meets my price and not jump at over-offers.

Given that, I have no problem with someone offering more than posted price.  I don't feel it is unethical and it doesn't bother me one bit.  I just decide which offer to take.    Besides, It is extremely common to get lower offers than asking price.  Is this also unethical??

 

  Other factors also come into play before I accept an offer ... can they pick it up to avoid shipping? ... method of payment?

etc.


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#54 whosthebadman

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 11:08 AM

     Unfortunately this turns every ad into an auction like Ebay. This could drag the time of the sale out almost indefinatly since the seller will just wait for the best offer once the ad has been posted. It could leave a potential buyer in a long time limbo waiting and not knowing until the seller decides no better offers are going to come his way.
      Next will come people sending PM's offering to buy the stuff listed in my signature which also may not be against the rules but it is very uncool.
Don't think we should travel down this road.

You can try an argue with the market, but you're screaming into the wind. 

It's a strong, strong seller's market, and "honor amongst thieves" is wishful thinking, when transacting amongst strangers. 

 

There's an awful lot of pearl-clutching in this thread, IMO.  Sending $3500 to someone you've never met, and first heard of online, is a gamble no matter how wholesome you believe your online community could/should/would/oughtta be. 

 

All's fair in love and war.  What is the used astro market in 2021, if not war?



#55 Nippon

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 12:49 PM

I consider this an unethical practice. If OBO is not expressed, the item should go to the first "I'll take it", for the asking price. I, also, feel a good seller will allow a prospective buyer due diligence. A queue is then created.

 

But, hey, if trying to snake others out of a deal is within your moral bounds, so be it.

I too feel that first taker at the asking price should get the item. But negotiating sales is common for many and I certainly think that is perfectly fine. People do it buying cars, houses you name it. 


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#56 bulletdodger

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 02:41 PM

   Sign of the times I guess. Lowered production has caused a lot of speculation and appreciation of goods astro. Seems especially true for quality refractors right now. Good time to sell even though you know you will regret it!


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#57 daquad

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:02 PM

I too feel that first taker at the asking price should get the item. But negotiating sales is common for many and I certainly think that is perfectly fine. People do it buying cars, houses you name it. 

Speaking of buying houses, if someone offers the asking price without a financial commitment, then all other offers are still on the table.  If, then another buyer offers more than the asking price with a financial commitment, then they get the sale, not the first who said I'd like to buy it.  

 

Same goes for astro equipment.  If someone says I'm interested and asks questions (especially those that can be answered just by reading the ad) but makes no commitment, I do not feel obligated to give that buyer first dibs, especially when others have said give me your Paypal ID.  

 

Dom Q.


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#58 Blueox4

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 05:38 AM

I’ve sold many things here. High dollar scopes, mounts, etc. I have had several instances where a prospective buyer was asking questions and has not said the magic words-“I’ll take it” then another buyer chines in with “I’ll take it”. They get the item as they were the first to say they would take it. If I had a buyer say they would take it then another buyer offered more money I would sell to the first one to say they would take it regardless if the second buyer offered more. If no one has said the magic words then I would take the higher offer. It comes down to whoever says they will take it first for me. What would be wrong in my opinion is to accept an offer on on item and then get a higher offer and screw over the first guy who said he’d take it. 


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#59 CHASLX200

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 05:43 AM

Yep, that's the way nearly all of the best deals transpire. As you put it --- Woosh! I've bought and sold a lot here and (mostly) on the other site. If I truly want something rare and coveted that only occasionally comes up... I pre-decide my happily-willing highest price and then lurk incognito for days, months or even years. And then BLAM when it comes up offer (5-10%) more than the seller is asking, immediate cash, no conditionals, knowing that others could be offering less or equal, typically with questions and additional buyer-conditionals. That almost always clinches the deal for me. Note: It's perfectly acceptable for a buyer to generously offer more than the asking price. The seller certainly can't raise his asking price after the fact; but a buyer is perfectly free to do so. So, if great deals seem to habitually evaporate before your hungry eyes --- that's a strategy to keep in mind. In e.g. gambling, it's called "leaving (some token) cash on the table". You then become a participant who others are glad to engage with. It also makes for consistently great reviews!    Tom

I have done all them tricks as well and everything else you can think of. I am in FL land of no real scopes so i am happy to offer more than a normal price for something i want.  Now that shipping has a put a end to my buying i just wait for years for something local to pop up.

 

As for paying $3500 for a sub 4" APO just not gonna happen unless i was gonna flip it for money. I am fine at $2k. I just have a set price in my head on what i will pay for a scope. Shipping prices really took me out of the game and i was lucky after a 20 year wait that a 18" Obsession popped up local for a good price and i jumped. Had over 250 scopes since the 1970's but really slowed down since shipping went to the moon around 2005.



#60 CHASLX200

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 05:51 AM

How would "first offer gets it" be policed anyway?   What if first offer is from 2k miles away, and second offer is local pick up?   I think, on a hot item, some sellers may wait for multiple offers and see which one is the easiest and safest to accept.  It is up to the seller.  Again, it cannot be policed.  Some buyers may have more credibility than others.....thats why we have a buyer/ seller rating system. 

Local pickup always comes first in my book. I will offer some money off for local pick up. I hate shipping stuff anymore.  As for selling. I always sell to the first person that says I will buy it.  Many times you get tire kickers or peeps saying they will buy and you don't hear back from them for hours or more than a day while buyer number 2 will take it and or buyer number 3 and so on.  I just have to judge was it right.  I have great ratings at Astromart so i must have done something right.


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#61 TOMDEY

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 08:04 AM

Local pickup always comes first in my book. I will offer some money off for local pick up. I hate shipping stuff anymore.  As for selling. I always sell to the first person that says I will buy it.  Many times you get tire kickers or peeps saying they will buy and you don't hear back from them for hours or more than a day while buyer number 2 will take it and or buyer number 3 and so on.  I just have to judge was it right.  I have great ratings at Astromart so i must have done something right.

That definitely describes me. As a seller, I don't want Top Dollar or to squeeze the blood out of a buyer... but I want convenience for myself and my stated firm bargain telling price and conditions... which includes pick-up at my place for the big stuff. Yet I still attract people trying to chew down the price further and for me to ship it. I entirely ignore those inquiries. Then some get miffed when the item appears as sold. Go figure. My received reviews are uniformly positive. I even sold a house that way. Nicest house on the block, good attractive price, as-is, clean deal. Early offers were loaded with picayune conditionals and low-ball offers. My realtor wanted me to help construct counter-offers; but I instructed her to completely ignore those, specifically to not even respond or return calls. And to not inform or bother me with less than offers. Two days later we got a full cash-in-hand offer from a serious buyer and closed within the week. One's time and bandwidth are worth a lot. Buyers should consider that when seeking bargains.   Tom


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#62 peleuba

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 08:13 AM

 Next will come people sending PM's offering to buy the stuff listed in my signature which also may not be against the rules but it is very uncool.
Don't think we should travel down this road.

 

What?

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making an offer to purchase something in someone's signature.  You should be flattered that someone thinks your taste in gear is terrific grin.gif.  If you are not interested in selling, simply respond with a "No Thanks" type of PM.   And, if you're not trying to draw attention to it, you might consider removing from your sig.  

 

This sort of 1:1 private communication is how most of the really high-end, coveted equipment changes hands.  Its people back-channeling each other with an offer to buy (or sell).  There are several CN members participating in this thread - right now - who are friends of mine and they know exactly of what I speak.  When high end gear changes hands, one or both parties, for any number of reasons, may want to be discreet about the transaction.  So they contact each other privately about a perspective sale.  

 

Trust me, the really high-end, limited production gear never makes it to the classifieds.


Edited by peleuba, 09 April 2021 - 10:02 AM.

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#63 peleuba

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 10:02 AM

Maybe you should edit your post.cool.gif

 

Done.  Thank you.   Its a thin line between being a "fiend" and being a "friend"


Edited by peleuba, 09 April 2021 - 10:03 AM.

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#64 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 10:28 AM

That definitely describes me. As a seller, I don't want Top Dollar or to squeeze the blood out of a buyer... but I want convenience for myself and my stated firm bargain telling price and conditions... which includes pick-up at my place for the big stuff. Yet I still attract people trying to chew down the price further and for me to ship it. I entirely ignore those inquiries. Then some get miffed when the item appears as sold. Go figure. My received reviews are uniformly positive. I even sold a house that way. Nicest house on the block, good attractive price, as-is, clean deal. Early offers were loaded with picayune conditionals and low-ball offers. My realtor wanted me to help construct counter-offers; but I instructed her to completely ignore those, specifically to not even respond or return calls. And to not inform or bother me with less than offers. Two days later we got a full cash-in-hand offer from a serious buyer and closed within the week. One's time and bandwidth are worth a lot. Buyers should consider that when seeking bargains.   Tom

Local pickup rules for me, for which I will discount the price.   Packing properly and shipping is a hassle best avoided if possible.



#65 25585

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 01:07 PM

Similarity: My wife sent me to Dollar General last Sunday to buy a few cans of dog food for our three pets that we rescued from abusive owners. The two masked girls frenetically tending store were rather harried and working hard to keep up with antsy customers. I paid and commented, "Working hard on Easter, I see." They chuckled and wished me a happy Easter too. I plopped down a twenty and said, "Here's a tip for you young ladies to share; Happy Easter!" I returned home feeling good for them, our pets, my wife, and me. That's my idyllic notion regarding greediness. Next time you buy something --- seriously consider paying more, rather than trying to negotiate less, then accusing other buyers of greed. It's a fulfilling feeling making startled sellers any yourself a bit happier. To quote a wise man, "Give, and it shall be given unto you."    Tom 

Tom, & everyone else who has, thank you for adopting rescue animals! 



#66 bulletdodger

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 02:37 PM

    NO it is not alright make an offer on one of my signature telescopes...EVER!! Every 2 post Sputnick would be sending low ball offers just to get a possible deal.

    I am reminded of Jake and Elwood Blues. "How much for the women and the little girls". This is not a classified with a forum section, this is s forum with a classified section. On the other hand, should you offer me double the going rate on a signature item I could possibly forgive the transgression. grin.gif



#67 BillP

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 07:28 PM

I don't see anything unethical about Tom’s idea. 
You can always offer more. It is up to the seller to decide

to stick with asking price or not. 
I would say that if the seller got his asking price on an offer,

and later got another offer for more, he should honor the first

offer. Again, that is on the seller.  
The buyer with the up-offer has no idea if he is the first in line

or if there are any other offers.  

I agree.  If a buyer wants to offer more, that is their prerogative and nothing unethical or immoral with that practice.  On the seller side, also up to them by what parameters they judge who to sell to, person with best ratings, person they know, person offering the most, person who replies first, person in greatest need, person who replies last, person they feel most secure in selling to, person who it is going to be easiest to get the item to.  There is no required protocol so totally up to the seller.  Anyone who has problems playing by open rules, should just not play.  No call for pointing judgemental fingers based on personal per-conceived notions.


Edited by BillP, 09 April 2021 - 07:30 PM.

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#68 weis14

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 10:31 PM

Trust me, the really high-end, limited production gear never makes it to the classifieds.

I agree with this, but will add that that a wanted ad can be very useful if you are looking for a specific piece of high end equipment.  I sold a TEC160FL and an AT92 by responding to wanted ads here and on the other site.  In both cases, these were scopes that were made redundant by other purchases (the Stowaway and the CFF160) and the wanted ads motivated me to move these scopes to very interested parties quickly and easily. 


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#69 TOMDEY

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 11:54 PM

I agree.  If a buyer wants to offer more, that is their prerogative and nothing unethical or immoral with that practice.  On the seller side, also up to them by what parameters they judge who to sell to, person with best ratings, person they know, person offering the most, person who replies first, person in greatest need, person who replies last, person they feel most secure in selling to, person who it is going to be easiest to get the item to.  There is no required protocol so totally up to the seller.  Anyone who has problems playing by open rules, should just not play.  No call for pointing judgemental fingers based on personal per-conceived notions.

Very nicely explained, Bill!

 

The offering seller is presumptively committed to honoring his proposal, but not to any specific buyer, until both mutually-agree. That's why we have things like ratings, history, location, experience, earnestness, comfort percolating in the background. First response generally carries a lot of weight... but is not the only or even overriding consideration. 90+% of the time, deals here are friendly, direct, quick and agreeable.

 

But there's the few % habitual tire-kickers wheeler-dealers who we experienced buyers and sellers learn to avoid. One guy, on a minor $50 bargain item I was selling peppered me with interminable questions, and then went ballistic when I stopped responding to more and more questions. I deleted his messages and swore (to myself) that I would never communicate with him again, on this or any future deals. Someone else happily got the item; I even threw in extras gratis because he was considerate. I've casually discussed this sorta dynamic with some commercial vendors and learned the same thing. We have our secret lists... and they also have theirs! If you earn yourself a reputation as disagreeable, might explain why the communication channels seem to dry up and go dark... and yet others seem to be having no issues.   Tom


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#70 rowdy388

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 12:28 AM

I feel I should be able to sign off on all deals made here in case something comes up that I want.


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#71 CHASLX200

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 05:44 AM

I just got tired of dealing with peeps in the long run after 40+ years of dealing. Then shipping did me in for good. Very small things like a eyepiece i am fine with shipping, but never anything big anymore. Seems more stuff gets broke today vs 40 years ago.  If i sell my Obsession it will be for a good price and pickup only when the day comes.



#72 BillP

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 10:22 AM

Both purchasing and selling on any platform for individuals is like fishing, all you can do is to cast your line out there, no guarantee of a bite, if there will be a fight or not, and it it will stay on to reel in.  As far as I'm concerned, no harm and no foul as long as no money is actually lost.  Just all part of the fishing lol.gif


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