Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Not happy with results. Are you willing to process it for me? M81-M82-NGC3077

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 11 April 2021 - 08:36 AM

So,

I have collected about 15 hrs of total exposure. 

Data is HaLRGB.

Equipment:

  • NEQ6/SW Esprit100/ASI183MM/Astrodon gen 2 filters

Exposures were taken while guiding (tot RMS below 0.8 arc") at constant cooling temp of -20C

All the frames have been calibrated with DARKS, FLATS (calibrated with DARK flats).

Note: my area is in the white range in terms of light pollution.

 

I processed the frames in Pixinsight using quite s standard flow. Light frame processed separately and added in the end to the HaRGB after stretching.

 

Like i said i don't like the result. And i tried multiple times. Main problem that I don't like is the  inability to pull good colors form M81 and i am getting tired of trying over again BeatingADeadHorse.gif!!! 

Someone willing to try and see what you can do with my data? I believe the date is decent but still some good DBE needs to be applied.

 

Thanks!!!

 

Master L--> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Master Ha--> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Mater R --> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Master G--> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Master B-->https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

 
M81 M82 NGC3077 FINAL V2

 


  • NMCN, elmiko and marsbase like this

#2 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 11 April 2021 - 08:39 AM

HIgher resolution image can be found at this link

 

https://telescopius....xy/by-sebaastro



#3 NMCN

NMCN

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 400
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2006

Posted 11 April 2021 - 08:58 AM

Other than the core of M81 being blown a little bit and the stars a bit on the blue side (same problem I've been dealing with), this looks pretty good.  I would take a crack at your data, but I'm still trying to tame my own!


  • SebaAstro likes this

#4 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 11 April 2021 - 09:07 AM

Other than the core of M81 being blown a little bit and the stars a bit on the blue side (same problem I've been dealing with), this looks pretty good.  I would take a crack at your data, but I'm still trying to tame my own!

Awesome and thank you. I can't truly wait to see what you will be able to pull out. 

Thanks again!



#5 elmiko

elmiko

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Joined: 27 Jul 2009
  • Loc: Arizona

Posted 11 April 2021 - 09:57 AM

Looks good to me Seba! M81 is a tricky one. I like the Ha regions. 


  • SebaAstro likes this

#6 SilverLitz

SilverLitz

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,496
  • Joined: 17 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 11 April 2021 - 09:58 AM

Here is my version of the same target, with similar equipment, but I reduce my Esprit to 413mm & my filters are pedestrian (ZWO LRGB & Baader Ha):

 

M81_Group_LHaRGB90 (LoRes).jpg

 

I agree that your M81 is blown out.  Did you over expose or over-stretch?  My exposures were my typical: 60s for L, 120s for R,G,B, and 240s for Ha, but this was at f/4.13 and my skies are Bortle 5+.

 

You have much more blue than I get.  I even tried to boost my blue, but could not get much.  I tried to focus on get an "exploding" Cigar, which needs a lot of Ha.  I combined my Ha and Lum for my Luminance (80% Ha).  If I would go 50/50 the IFN comes out, but I would lose a little definition in M82 and the background would get mottled color.

 

I alway do a mild Deconv on all my channels before doing ChannelCombine while still linear.  I use AS for RGB.  I further work on my Lum and then stretch using MS and then HT, and do more sharpening.

 

I am still very much in the learning stage of this (PI for about 1.5 years), and my style is generally more detail and contrast than most.


  • SebaAstro likes this

#7 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 11 April 2021 - 10:41 AM

Here is my version of the same target, with similar equipment, but I reduce my Esprit to 413mm & my filters are pedestrian (ZWO LRGB & Baader Ha):

 

attachicon.gifM81_Group_LHaRGB90 (LoRes).jpg

 

I agree that your M81 is blown out.  Did you over expose or over-stretch?  My exposures were my typical: 60s for L, 120s for R,G,B, and 240s for Ha, but this was at f/4.13 and my skies are Bortle 5+.

 

You have much more blue than I get.  I even tried to boost my blue, but could not get much.  I tried to focus on get an "exploding" Cigar, which needs a lot of Ha.  I combined my Ha and Lum for my Luminance (80% Ha).  If I would go 50/50 the IFN comes out, but I would lose a little definition in M82 and the background would get mottled color.

 

I alway do a mild Deconv on all my channels before doing ChannelCombine while still linear.  I use AS for RGB.  I further work on my Lum and then stretch using MS and then HT, and do more sharpening.

 

I am still very much in the learning stage of this (PI for about 1.5 years), and my style is generally more detail and contrast than most.

Even if i am at f5.5 with my Esprit (so my scope is slower than yours since you use a reducer) my exposures are way shorter: L (10s), RGB (30s) and Ha (120s) and i believe i should run them even shorter that that considering that i live in white zone light polluted area.



#8 RedLionNJ

RedLionNJ

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,264
  • Joined: 29 Dec 2009
  • Loc: Red Lion, NJ, USA

Posted 11 April 2021 - 11:53 AM

Hi Seb,

 

Let me qualify these comments with the observation I have never been able to achieve this degree of detail on this target, but it's on my bucket list to accumulate so much data on it someday.

 

My 2c worth:

 

I also think the blue is far too dominant - just look at M82, for example. I'd back off on the blue contribution, balancing such that the majority of M82 (excluding the H-alpha) is more white.

 

This MAY "tame" M81 a bit, although the core does (as mentioned above) not take much to blow out completely.

 

One processing "trick" I sometimes deploy on galaxies is to convert to Lab color space, then apply an S-curve to the "a" component, then convert back to RGB. This can have the effect of making the yellows more yellow and the blues more blue, so you really need to cut back on the blue component beforehand.

 

Your work is awesome. I am envious.

 

Good luck!



#9 Pete_xl

Pete_xl

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,285
  • Joined: 29 Jan 2015
  • Loc: Germany

Posted 11 April 2021 - 12:13 PM



So,

I have collected about 15 hrs of total exposure. 

Data is HaLRGB.

Equipment:


  • NEQ6/SW Esprit100/ASI183MM/Astrodon gen 2 filters


Exposures were taken while guiding (tot RMS below 0.8 arc") at constant cooling temp of -20C

All the frames have been calibrated with DARKS, FLATS (calibrated with DARK flats).

Note: my area is in the white range in terms of light pollution.

 

I processed the frames in Pixinsight using quite s standard flow. Light frame processed separately and added in the end to the HaRGB after stretching.

 

Like i said i don't like the result. And i tried multiple times. Main problem that I don't like is the  inability to pull good colors form M81 and i am getting tired of trying over again BeatingADeadHorse.gif!!! 

Someone willing to try and see what you can do with my data? I believe the date is decent but still some good DBE needs to be applied.

 

Thanks!!!

 

Master L--> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Master Ha--> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Mater R --> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Master G--> https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Master B-->https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

Hi,

 

the color is all there but your data is somehow shifted to magents/red for some reason. It just needs a proper calibration e.g. according to the star color distribution. This is a screenshot after a background neutralisation, a standard "calibrate star colors" calibration  in Astro Pixel Processor and simple LRGB combination also in APP plus a little bit of saturation enhancement in PS. Just a rough 5-minute processing only to show the data is fine and the color is there...

 

51109112492_4032002b95_b.jpg

 

I think PI offers a comparable calibration method.

 

CS

Pete


  • NMCN, elmiko, leviathan and 3 others like this

#10 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:01 PM

Hi,

 

the color is all there but your data is somehow shifted to magents/red for some reason. It just needs a proper calibration e.g. according to the star color distribution. This is a screenshot after a background neutralisation, a standard "calibrate star colors" calibration  in Astro Pixel Processor and simple LRGB combination also in APP plus a little bit of saturation enhancement in PS. Just a rough 5-minute processing only to show the data is fine and the color is there...

 

51109112492_4032002b95_b.jpg

 

I think PI offers a comparable calibration method.

 

CS

Pete

THANK YOU Pete!!!!

Two things:

  • magents/red cloro shifting probably is due to my "friendly" neighbor that recently installed some powerful flood lights on the back that i need sun glasses at night when going to my backyard. I had to put some curtain around my gear to shield that "light house"
  • You gave me the idea to try APP. It seems a powerful tool that is probably worth to try for quick results. I love pixinsight but sometime it takes me hrs before getting to an end result!

 

Thanks again for your effort and for sharing the comments!

Seba


  • elmiko likes this

#11 Pete_xl

Pete_xl

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,285
  • Joined: 29 Jan 2015
  • Loc: Germany

Posted 11 April 2021 - 03:28 PM

Seba I work with APP since its beginning and can really recommend it with good conscience for stacking, calibration, gradient removal and a first stretch. You are probably aware that beyond these and other basic but most important tasks which APP handles easily and with brilliance you need 16 bit editing software like PS, Affinity Photo or GIMP for a high level result.

 

CS Pete


  • SebaAstro likes this

#12 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 11 April 2021 - 08:28 PM

Seba I work with APP since its beginning and can really recommend it with good conscience for stacking, calibration, gradient removal and a first stretch. You are probably aware that beyond these and other basic but most important tasks which APP handles easily and with brilliance you need 16 bit editing software like PS, Affinity Photo or GIMP for a high level result.

 

CS Pete

Thanks Pete for the clarification and additional information.

 

One thing I just noticed is that something may be not right with my data calibration,

 

I noticed some "bands" presence in the calibrated frame.

See link below of an example of single fram (not calibrated) and then after being calibrated

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

I believe i did everything right with  calibrating the FLATS with the DARK FLATS as well as calibrating the light frame with the DARKS and DARK FLATS in terms of matching temp, exposure duration, gain , etc...

 

 

Do you experience same type of "banding" noise? Is it normal after calibration?

My camera is an ASI183MM.

 

Seba



#13 Pete_xl

Pete_xl

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,285
  • Joined: 29 Jan 2015
  • Loc: Germany

Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:44 AM

Seba I am not an expert for calbration issues but think you are right and something went wrong with the calibration here. Do all the calibration files have the same offset values as the lights and flats? How long was the flat/darkflat exposure? Some cameras do not deliver reproducible results if the exposure time is very short.

 

BTW I do not know the 183mmp but with my 1600mmp and 2600mmp I made good experiences using higher offset values to get more distance to the floor.



#14 NMCN

NMCN

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 400
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2006

Posted 12 April 2021 - 02:46 AM

Thanks Pete for the clarification and additional information.

 

One thing I just noticed is that something may be not right with my data calibration,

 

I noticed some "bands" presence in the calibrated frame.

See link below of an example of single fram (not calibrated) and then after being calibrated

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

I believe i did everything right with  calibrating the FLATS with the DARK FLATS as well as calibrating the light frame with the DARKS and DARK FLATS in terms of matching temp, exposure duration, gain , etc...

 

 

Do you experience same type of "banding" noise? Is it normal after calibration?

My camera is an ASI183MM.

 

Seba

I just want to clarify the part I bolded.  Did you mean to say you calibrated the light frame with the darks and the flats?  Because the dark flat is NOT used when calibrating the light frame, it's only used when calibrating the flat.



#15 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 12 April 2021 - 05:27 AM

Seba I am not an expert for calbration issues but think you are right and something went wrong with the calibration here. Do all the calibration files have the same offset values as the lights and flats? How long was the flat/darkflat exposure? Some cameras do not deliver reproducible results if the exposure time is very short.

 

BTW I do not know the 183mmp but with my 1600mmp and 2600mmp I made good experiences using higher offset values to get more distance to the floor.

I think i found the issue. I noticed that the DARKs and FLAT DARKs don't have an offset selected while the light frame is set at 10. This is caused by the fact that i took the DARKS and FLAT DARKS  with SGP selecting ASCOM driver on the camera which doesn't allow to select the OFFSET. I should have used the native ZWO driver which will allow that.

 

I will need to experiment more to confirm.

 

Thanks for the input.

Seba



#16 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 12 April 2021 - 05:28 AM

I just want to clarify the part I bolded.  Did you mean to say you calibrated the light frame with the darks and the flats?  Because the dark flat is NOT used when calibrating the light frame, it's only used when calibrating the flat.

I used the DARK FLAT to calibrate the FLATS and not the light frames.


  • NMCN likes this

#17 Wheeljack

Wheeljack

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 20
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2018

Posted 12 April 2021 - 06:09 AM

I can also vouch for Astro Pixel Processor. I tried the trail a little over a year ago and I didn't even finish the trial period before I realized the program was worth every cent. My only regret is that I bought the renters license instead of the owers license (I upgraded once my renters expired a couple of months back).

 

I don't use Pixinsight (yet), but I think stacking in APP and processing in PI would be a very, very powerful combination.



#18 SebaAstro

SebaAstro

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2017

Posted 19 April 2021 - 06:59 PM

OK you guys sold it to me. I have used (trial) AstroPixel and i have to tell you: astrophotography became fun again after months of a bit of disappointments!!!!

I am going to buy Astro Pixel as the results of pre-processing are quite impressive and so easy to manage!!!

 

below my result after running quickly (i am still learning) Astro Pixel. Quite different from the first image i have published in this post!

 

 

THANK YOU!

 

M81 M82 NGC3077 FINAL V3 AstroPixel

 


  • dswtan likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics