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What is the most over rated scope from the 60's and 70's era.

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#126 SteveGR

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 02:27 PM

I think that the functional design referring to the German design tradition is not a drawback, but a great advantage of Telementor equipment.

 

On the other hand, what you write shows that you are bravely protecting yourself against overpricing this equipment by sellers, which means that such a problem actually exists. Prices well in excess of 1,000 euros are the norm in Europe.

 

Looking at this, it is impossible not to ask yourself the question: WHY? Exclusively for image quality ...?

 

 

I do not want to argue - I ask because I did not have the opportunity to check it myself, except for a little experience with the eyepiece and Barlow lens. And these experiences make me wonder whether today's prices reflect only the parameters of this equipment, or maybe something else - for example, some emotions or sentiments...?

The Telementor 1 is a beautiful design. Both to look at and through.  I thought I had a chance at getting one a couple of years ago, but the owner decided he didn't want to get rid of it. In fact I think the idea of selling it made him appreciate it more and last I heard he was using it often. Talk about not being over-rated, for what it was and when it was made, it was about as perfect as you could want.  Over-priced, you could make a good case for.  smile.gif I don't really need one now, since I have that aperture range covered, but I expect that some day I will probably buy one anyway if I see a decent-ish deal.  But not for a couple of years, too much on my plate as it is.


Edited by SteveGR, 06 May 2021 - 02:29 PM.

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#127 GreyDay

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 04:03 PM

Looking at this, it is impossible not to ask yourself the question: WHY? Exclusively for image quality ...?

Not exactly, I could have bought an ED80 for the same money but... some of the things i consider before buying a telescope are... what are they like optically, will i be able to mount it properly, can i use my existing equipment with it or will i have to buy more, what is included with the scope. With the Telementor i borrowed i worked out all i needed was the OTA mount and tripod or just the OTA would have done.

 

Then i put my sensible head on and considered the cost, the tripods at the time were selling for £100 -130 the same for the EQ mount, if the OTA was the same that meant £390 max. I would have paid a little more but i considered £390 reasonable. The OTA's rarely come up for sale on their own, but the mount/tripod combo are a bit of a one trick pony having limited use with other equipment plus some people don't know how to use the HA circle and sidereal time so the fixed (backward) circle confuses them (the Tal2 is the same).

 

My final consideration when asking "is it worth it ?", over the years i've passed on the chance to buy several scopes because they're either overpriced or wouldn't add anything to what i already own. I love the views through small telescopes and the challenges they provide so the Zeiss fit right in. Choosing to buy the zeiss wasn't just about image quality but the overall feel of the full package, the image quality is as good as a small achromat can manage. Optically if the zeiss was just average i wouldn't have bought it. Again are they worth it? at the price i paid yes, at 1000+ euros? no!

 

The real question regarding "over rated" scopes is "what are your expectations?" if something falls below those expectations the item is deemed over rated, if it meets expectations then it's a great telescope. Whether something is worth the money then becomes a matter of opinion, not necessarily a fair judgement of it's quality. I could spend all day argueing why i think SCT's are over rated and not worth the asking prices but someone will always defend them because that's their opinion based on their expectations. :)


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#128 starman876

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 06:12 PM

never knew there were so many overrated scopes.  fingertap.gif


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#129 LukaszLu

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 06:38 PM

The overrating trick only works as long as people don't realize it works ;-)


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#130 woodsman

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 12:37 PM

The only disagreement I may have with your assertions is the ease of setting up a 4" f/10 refractor compared to setting up a C5 with wedge and tripod.  The C5 takes about 3 minutes perhaps less!

 

Well, have you used a Celestron (V) C102?  I can tote this rig around the back yard, and I'm an Old(ish) Dude:

 

attachicon.gifC102 - First Setup S01 (Mizar - FULL Right Side).jpg

 

Battery-powered drive with only 1 wire (controller to motor).  With a 4-slot Vixen Turret, no need for the eyepiece case.

 

No CAT-bashing from Ole BB.  At 6" & larger apertures, they're compact marvels.  Clean & collimated, they can deliver, but IMO the vendors down-played the importance of collimation.  Not just my opinion / experience.  I've bought some that owners had low opinions of... then, I got the optics aligned, and saw otherwise.

 

Hi Bob,

 

  I can't say anything about the setup on that Vixen/Celestron 102.  I've never set it up or looked through it, but I must say that unless you don't disassemble the tripod, it may be easy.  If you have to disassemble and reassemble that wood tripod every time, then it would be a mess.  I'm assuming that you leave it all assembled and carry it out? 

 

I can do the same with the C5, but I prefer not to have numerous telescopes all setup around my house.  (It is cluttered enough as it is!!  lol.gif )

 

However I still stick to my original statement about the C5 on its wedge and locked triangle tripod being the easiest setup I've ever owned.  The tripod was great because you could take each leg and fold it in on inself, tie a bungee cord around it and then put it in a corner for storage.  The C5 looks good displayed on a table and the wedge for the C5 tri-colored?  It is tiny. 

 

Then when I want to use it, I simply attach the C5 to the wedge and carry that in one hand and the tripod in the other. 
 

You do have me beat and have the advantage on the idea of battery power, as I'm still dealing with power cords. 

 

Yet, I would mention, the setting circles on the fork mount compared to the ones on that C102 mount.  They are NON-functional IMHO. 

 

I've yet to find a GEM mount that isn't giant, which I would want to use on a regular basis for using setting circles and star charts to peruse the sky.

 

I'm big into using old school methods rather than computer hand controls to find objects (takes the fun out of stargazing IMO).   wink.gif

 

Having said all that, I'm still sticking to my guns! The C5 takes LESS than 3 minutes to setup, 2 min 50 sec at most. HA, HA 

 

Enjoy your day! 


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#131 woodsman

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 12:39 PM

never knew there were so many overrated scopes.  fingertap.gif

Oh YEAH!!!  

 

Nothin's perfect.   lol.gif



#132 woodsman

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 12:58 PM

"that To compare it on how the optics compare to other scopes does not justify what one has when they have a Q".

 

Purely subjective! smile.gif  A telescope is a visual instrument, so I have to disagree a bit.  I get why some people love them, and hey, good on you.  For me, the look through factor is always exponentially more important than the look at factor. Which is probably why the Questar has never really grabbed me.  I'm thrifty, so I always thought I could get more optical bang for my buck elsewhere.  Which is why I take the "over-rated" position.  But this is All subjective unless we solely focused on optical testing aside from everything else and what fun would that be?

 

That said, if I ever get around to the DIY scope I am thinking about, it will be something to look at. smile.gif   I'll go with Fender guitar colors, probably Surf Green, though maybe Shell Pink depending on how the whim takes me. Accents the color of the scratch plate.  Got to liven up those Star Parties!

 

Edit:  Gretsch Orange is not beyond the realm of possibility. But people would probably think I was trying to make it look like a Celestron. smile.gif

Great posting.  I agree, purely subjective.  Believe it or not, I actually read HERE in a posting by an obvious HERETIC, that Pumpkin Orange Celestron SCTs from the '70s were NOT so hot to look at!!  When I read that BLASPHEMY I almost fell back in my chair, choked on my Hostess Ding Dongs, while spitting out my coffee, before my head slammed to the floor, giving me a concussion ALL in the span of 3 seconds.

 

Where is the punishment room on this forum??  Where is the Jar that is required to be filled with cash fines when someone here makes such utterly offensive comments??  That's what I'd like to know. 

Luckily, there happened to be paramedics standing in my doorway when I read the offensive comments Dissing My PUMPKIN ORANGE C5, C8, and C14, because they slapped the paddles on me and brought me back to consciousness. 

 

Otherwise you might be reading my obituary. 

 

Can you just imagine how many people read the offensive commentary regarding Pumpkin orange Celestrons who were NOT lucky enough to have paramedics with a defibrillator nearby?? 

 

I'm still trying to get over it, as the Effigy that I hung in my backyard (of the offending party) when I read those comments yesterday, just didn't cut it for me. 

 

I'm STILL as mad as a hornet!!  

 

mad.gif

 

I'll do my best to get over it! 


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#133 mpsteidle

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 02:44 PM

Remind me never to talk smack about woodsman's telescopes!


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#134 Kasmos

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 03:12 PM

Great posting.  I agree, purely subjective.  Believe it or not, I actually read HERE in a posting by an obvious HERETIC, that Pumpkin Orange Celestron SCTs from the '70s were NOT so hot to look at!!  When I read that BLASPHEMY I almost fell back in my chair, choked on my Hostess Ding Dongs, while spitting out my coffee, before my head slammed to the floor, giving me a concussion ALL in the span of 3 seconds.

 

Where is the punishment room on this forum??  Where is the Jar that is required to be filled with cash fines when someone here makes such utterly offensive comments??  That's what I'd like to know. 

Luckily, there happened to be paramedics standing in my doorway when I read the offensive comments Dissing My PUMPKIN ORANGE C5, C8, and C14, because they slapped the paddles on me and brought me back to consciousness. 

 

Otherwise you might be reading my obituary. 

 

Can you just imagine how many people read the offensive commentary regarding Pumpkin orange Celestrons who were NOT lucky enough to have paramedics with a defibrillator nearby?? 

 

I'm still trying to get over it, as the Effigy that I hung in my backyard (of the offending party) when I read those comments yesterday, just didn't cut it for me. 

 

I'm STILL as mad as a hornet!!  

 

mad.gif

 

I'll do my best to get over it! 

People are free to give their opinions on optical performance, as for negative comments on the asthetics of the old orange Celestrons, I don't mind, it's their loss.grin.gif


Edited by Kasmos, 07 May 2021 - 03:12 PM.

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#135 luxo II

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:39 PM

Anyone with a pumpkin orange C8 they don’t need ? I have an idea for Halloween … some surgery m with a Dremel and a saw should transform the aesthetics and eliminate the thermal plume … a gaslight up the central baffle should warm up the interior nicely, forget fans and heater straps

No more radical than the naked (tubeless) Meade 10” someone just posted a pic of……

Edited by luxo II, 07 May 2021 - 08:47 PM.

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#136 Terra Nova

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:03 PM

People are free to give their opinions on optical performance, as for negative comments on the asthetics of the old orange Celestrons, I don't mind, it's their loss.grin.gif

The orange grows on you. I have to admit, 45 years ago, when I had come straight from my long standing love affair with the ebony and ivory color ensemble imbued in Unitron refractors and Cave reflectors, and I saw those squatty orange telescopes for the first time, my reaction was

 

ekk! ORANGE! What were they thinking!!! gaah.gif 
 

But then a few years later, I saw those bright red and blue giant cardboard tubes affixed to ungainly wooden boxes and I thought, those orange telescopes look pretty good! :lol:


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#137 luxo II

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:22 PM

ekk! ORANGE! What were they thinking!!!


INHO one of the dreadful styling mistakes of the 70s, along with flared purple pants, long hair, Paisley ties, brown cord jackets with leather elbow patches and hideous lapels, hot red medallion wallpaper, Spanish mission arches and other dreadful things… houses built facing the wrong way… better left forgotten.

Edited by luxo II, 07 May 2021 - 10:24 PM.

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#138 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:35 AM

INHO one of the dreadful styling mistakes of the 70s, along with flared purple pants, long hair, Paisley ties, brown cord jackets with leather elbow patches and hideous lapels, hot red medallion wallpaper, Spanish mission arches and other dreadful things… houses built facing the wrong way… better left forgotten.

"IMHO one of the dreadful styling mistakes of the 70s"

 

Aww c'mon, never a mistake!  I beg to differ.  I've loved 'em from the start.  I remember looking at all the advertisements back in the early and mid '70s, drooling over the C14, thinking to myself "who on Earth can afford this amazing telescope"?

 

The orange tube was just another piece of the whole puzzle that gave it such an appeal to those of us who couldn't wait for the next monthly issue of Orion Telescope, S&T, or an Astronomy magazine to surface, just to take a look at the orange tubes, with the pretty girls to model them. 

 

The heck with the Astronomy and the articles, we just wanted the advertisements!

 

I remember when the package finally arrived from Orion with my first C8 (which I still have) in that black steamer trunk.  The excitement level was Defcon 3 .  laugh.gif

 

Those were fun days. 

 

Had it been a boring white tube, not so much.  LOL  lol.gif

 

Now I'm lucky enough to have all the fun toys including a Vintage Orange (of course it has to be orange) C14.

 

One of these days I'm going to grow up, but not until I've had all the fun I can endure for one lifetime. 

 

I don't see that ending for quite some time.  wink.gif


Edited by woodsman, 08 May 2021 - 07:36 AM.

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#139 steve t

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:37 AM

INHO one of the dreadful styling mistakes of the 70s, along with flared purple pants, long hair, Paisley ties, brown cord jackets with leather elbow patches and hideous lapels, hot red medallion wallpaper, Spanish mission arches and other dreadful things… houses built facing the wrong way… better left forgotten.

After reading your post, I had a serious flash back to 75lol.gif


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#140 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:40 AM

INHO one of the dreadful styling mistakes of the 70s, along with flared purple pants, long hair, Paisley ties, brown cord jackets with leather elbow patches and hideous lapels, hot red medallion wallpaper, Spanish mission arches and other dreadful things… houses built facing the wrong way… better left forgotten.

"brown cord jackets with leather elbow patches and hideous lapels, Spanish mission arches"

 

Sir, I have to ask, have you No sense of style? 

 

I'll have you know that my first girlfriend was just giddy about my light brown Corduroy Jacket.  If it was in style today, I'd still be wearing one  cool.gif


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#141 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:41 AM

After reading your post, I had a serious flash back to 75lol.gif

I hope it was in a good way.  smile.gif


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#142 steve t

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:41 AM

Back In 1975, there was a reporter that attended a local star party and in his article he described the C8 as looking like an orange cement mixer.grin.gif


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#143 steve t

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:43 AM

I hope it was in a good way.  smile.gif

10-4 good buddy keep on trucking.


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#144 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:46 AM

Anyone with a pumpkin orange C8 they don’t need ? I have an idea for Halloween … some surgery m with a Dremel and a saw should transform the aesthetics and eliminate the thermal plume … a gaslight up the central baffle should warm up the interior nicely, forget fans and heater straps

No more radical than the naked (tubeless) Meade 10” someone just posted a pic of……

"Pumpkin Orange"

 

And so what is wrong exactly with Pumpkin Orange?

 

lol.gif bow.gif  

Attached Thumbnails

  • pumpkin orange.jpg
  • 2.jpg

Edited by woodsman, 08 May 2021 - 07:46 AM.

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#145 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:48 AM

Back In 1975, there was a reporter that attended a local star party and in his article he described the C8 as looking like an orange cement mixer.grin.gif

"like an orange cement mixer"

 

Yes sir, believe it or not, I have one of those in my backyard as well.  laugh.gif

 

Hmmm..... It looks like I have this thing about Orange that I never really realized...... 
 


Edited by woodsman, 08 May 2021 - 07:49 AM.

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#146 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:56 AM

The orange grows on you. I have to admit, 45 years ago, when I had come straight from my long standing love affair with the ebony and ivory color ensemble imbued in Unitron refractors and Cave reflectors, and I saw those squatty orange telescopes for the first time, my reaction was

 

ekk! ORANGE! What were they thinking!!! gaah.gif 
 

But then a few years later, I saw those bright red and blue giant cardboard tubes affixed to ungainly wooden boxes and I thought, those orange telescopes look pretty good! lol.gif

"But then a few years later, I saw those bright red and blue giant cardboard tubes affixed to ungainly wooden boxes and I thought, those orange telescopes look pretty good!"

 

Yes, that is a very good way to look at it   bow.gif
 


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#147 DouglasPaul

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 07:56 AM

The orange grows on you. I have to admit, 45 years ago, when I had come straight from my long standing love affair with the ebony and ivory color ensemble imbued in Unitron refractors and Cave reflectors, and I saw those squatty orange telescopes for the first time, my reaction was

 

ekk! ORANGE! What were they thinking!!! gaah.gif 
 

But then a few years later, I saw those bright red and blue giant cardboard tubes affixed to ungainly wooden boxes and I thought, those orange telescopes look pretty good! lol.gif

Stahp, you're giving my Coulter a case of the blues...


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#148 woodsman

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 08:50 AM

Stahp, you're giving my Coulter a case of the blues...

I always wanted one of those.  Hard to beat for the money, especially 2nd hand. 



#149 Kasmos

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 03:12 PM

INHO one of the dreadful styling mistakes of the 70s, along with flared purple pants, long hair, Paisley ties, brown cord jackets with leather elbow patches and hideous lapels, hot red medallion wallpaper, Spanish mission arches and other dreadful things… houses built facing the wrong way… better left forgotten.

You are certainly free to have your opinion, but love or hate the color, it didn't seem to hurt their sales.

 

Also, while some of the styles of the 70s may now seem a bit extreme or corny, I very much like seeing the period in movies and TV and really enjoyed those times.... up until Disco. One thing is for sure, at least there was style!


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#150 LukaszLu

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 05:40 PM

In my opinion, the use of the orange color was a very clever marketing measure that allowed to give the brand and products an individual and memorable image. Few telescopes from the 1970s have "their color" that we remember today - in the case of the Celestron, it is impossible to forget or confuse it. And these are the tasks of visual identity - implemented in this case boldly and intelligently.

 

Of course, in addition to distinguishing and remembering, visual identity should also properly characterize - and here it can be discussed whether the orange color properly characterizes the product, which is usually associated with the white of the tube and aspires to be a "scientific instrument". Well, it probably depends on what Celestron's marketers wanted to say about their product. Maybe "it's not an ordinary telescope like many others, but ... an orange Celestron" ...? :-)


Edited by LukaszLu, 08 May 2021 - 05:49 PM.

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