89 replies to this topic

[Fiske]

Tim, thanks so much. I will keep that in mind.

 

I'm waiting to hear back from Kyoei-Osaka on the status of the 10x70 SP in their inventory. They list it as in stock. They are extremely good to deal with. At least I and others in the Bino forum have had good experiences working with them. If it doesn't seem like the portents are favorable for ordering a 10x70 SP from them now, I'll probably hold off and content myself with the Orion Resolux, which is a good value, upper midlevel quality instrument IMO.

 

All the information sharing and perspectives available in this forum are so helpful. I feel fortunate and grateful to be in the CloudyNights community.

 

Fiske

Edited by Fiske, 28 April 2021 - 06:28 PM.

[tmichaelbanks]

Hi Fiske,

 

Just to make things a little harder for you, I just saw an "Open Box" Fujinon FMT-SX Polaris unit in the used section of B&H (ok, ok, trolling the vendor sites daily occasionally crosses the line between fetish and addiction), price is $600.00:

 

https://www.bhphotov...binoculars.html

 

I know you said the ER was more than you wanted, but the other more is more than 1/3 off the "new" price and likely less expensive than the Nikon.

 

Good luck,

Mike

[Fiske]

 (ok, ok, trolling the vendor sites daily occasionally crosses the line between fetish and addiction), price is $600.00:

  

 

But I do understand.

 

Oddly enough, Kyoei-Osaka is not responding to my inquiries about the 10x70 SP, which may mean they no longer have inventory for it. I've sent an inquiry each morning for three mornings running now. They responded promptly when I asked about the 7x50 SP. Their time is shifted considerably from CDT USA. If I don't hear anything back in the next few days, I'll call it quits on that.

 

I noticed the Fuji 10x70 FMT is a hot ticket item in CN Classifieds. 

 

I am negotiating with Orion about what would be a reasonable discount for the mislabeled 10.5x70 Resolux -- which came proudly bearing 10x50 insignia.

 

 

 

Figure I need to beat them down on the price a certain amount to justifiably nick name the binocular Jon -- who got his Resolux used for a cool $100. I won't get anything like that kind of discount, but feel like I need more than a 10% knockoff from retail to hold my head high in such august company. Really, I never even considered a 10x70 until Jon and Erik started going on about them.

 

I know the Kunming BA8 binoculars have come in for some criticism, but I find them to be extremely comfortable instruments to observe with and think they are a terrific value. The edge performance isn't as good as the top Fuji and Nikon SP bins, but it is good enough not to be distracting. At least for me. Had an absolutely lovely view of M44 a few nights back with the Resolux, the surrounding keystone asterism perfectly framed in the 5 degreeish FOV. I don't believe the Nikon 10x70 SP would be quite as comfortable an instrument for me, but would still be okay and the slight comfort trade off reasonable for best quality optics. I have total confidence in Erik's reports of their optical performance. I seriously have ruled the FMT out -- will leave it for those observers who truly love the instrument and want one in their possession.

 

Fiske

[Echolight]

I'd like to get some paint and a tiny brush and turn my 10x50 into a 10x60

Edited by Echolight, 29 April 2021 - 12:45 PM.

[Rich V.]

That's funny; you have the biggest 10x50s around.  

 

Goes to show how the BA8s as well as MS series binos share the same prism assys/cover plates for each series regardless of objective size.  Just the printing is different.  Somebody was confused that day.

 

Rich

[Fiske]

The only real problem with the mislabeling is I would take a hit reselling the instrument -- someone like Jon would want it for $100.   But not really much of a concern. I have the feeling that binocular is in my posse for the long haul.

 

Fiske

[Fiske]

That's funny; you have the biggest 10x50s around.  

 

Goes to show how the BA8s as well as MS series binos share the same prism assys/cover plates for each series regardless of objective size.  Just the printing is different.  Somebody was confused that day.

 

Rich

My 10x50s are bigger than yours! 

 

Orion immediately requested pictures of the instrument and box. Trust me, they are checking their inventory to see how many units are impacted. Friendly and pleasant on the phone, too.

 

Fiske

[nowhere]

Fiske: What little I can make out though browser translation seems to say there are "emergency" restrictions, presumably pandemic related in place in Osaka at the moment which may be the result of the slower response compared to a while back when we ordered from Kyoei. It's just machine translation and I could be wrong and they may only be apologizing for inability to shop in store but it's a possibility.

[Fiske]

Thanks so much for this update.

 

Will wait to see where things go. If the instrument is available from Kyoei-Osaka I will probably order it, otherwise I'll chock it up to luck/timing, and the Resolux will get all the 10x70 time in my schedule. 

 

Fiske

[ran7621]

You know when a coin is minted with a flaw it becomes the most valuable. I'm just sayin 

[ihf]

Maybe the label is honest. Did you check the clear aperture?

[Fiske]

Maybe the label is honest. Did you check the clear aperture?

No. It's a 10x70 for sure. Identical from the objective side to the 15x70 Ultra.

 

Also, I don't believe the 10x70 and 10x50 Kunming tops are interchangeable. The 10x50 Ultra eyepieces are smaller than the 10x70 Resolux eyepieces. I mean the exterior lenses of the eyepiece assemblies. Maybe just a mistake was made screen printing the model info is all.

 

Fiske

[Fiske]

You know when a coin is minted with a flaw it becomes the most valuable. I'm just sayin 

Yeah. lol

 

Orion is saying, "Hey, we'll ship you another one with the correct model info and include a return UPS label so you can send the first one back for free." And I'm like, "but my friends on Cloudy Nights are calling this the biggest ever 10x50, which is kind of fun. What about a discount and I just keep it?" Not sure they are going to go for that, though. So I'll have to decide. What to do. What to do...

 

 

Fiske

[Mark9473]

Have them print you a back plate that says Nikon 10x70 SP WP IF.

Edited by Mark9473, 30 April 2021 - 01:56 AM.

[Fiske]

Have them print you a back plate that says Nikon 10x70 SP WP IF.

  

[Fiske]

Not a peep from Kyoei-Osaka on the 10x70 SP, so I am going to set that aside for now.

 

The Resolux 10x70 isn't on the same performance level optically, and particularly with regard to edge sharpness, but I'm so pleased with the binocular overall I'm just not going to fret about it. Also, owning the biggest ever "10x50" is so much fun I've decided to keep the instrument. Not expecting a discount from Orion, since they offered to replace it with free return shipping, but I'm still going to call it Big Jon.  (Maybe even Big Bad Jon when I am in a Johnny Cash mood.)

 

I had a great observing session from my suburban backyard last night, one of the highlights of which was observing M81/82 -- any sighting of a galaxy other than M31 from Bortle 7 skies is a bonus round for sure.  I was out with the 82XL, 15x70 Ultra, 10x70 Resolux (swapping them back and forth on the PM1 p-gram mount), and my XT8 Dob. M 81 was easily seen with the 10x70, and 82 could be occasionally glimpsed in averted. Close to the limit for that instrument under such skies. The view with the 82XL and 14mm eyepieces was surprisingly fine given the light pollution.

 

Fiske

Edited by Fiske, 30 April 2021 - 08:28 AM.

[j.gardavsky]

Not a peep from Kyoei-Osaka on the 10x70 SP, so I am going to set that aside for now.

 

The Resolux 10x70 isn't on the same performance level optically, and particularly with regard to edge sharpness, but I'm so pleased with the binocular overall I'm just not going to fret about it. Also, owning the biggest ever "10x50" is so much fun I've decided to keep the instrument. Not expecting a discount from Orion, since they offered to replace it with free return shipping, but I'm still going to call it Big Jon.  (Maybe even Big Bad Jon when I am in a Johnny Cash mood.)

 

I had a great observing session from my suburban backyard last night, one of the highlights of which was observing M81/82 -- any sighting of a galaxy other than M31 from Bortle 7 skies is a bonus round for sure.  I was out with the 82XL, 15x70 Ultra, 10x70 Resolux (swapping them back and forth on the PM1 p-gram mount), and my XT8 Dob. M 81 was easily seen with the 10x70, and 82 could be occasionally glimpsed in averted. Close to the limit for that instrument under such skies. The view with the 82XL and 14mm eyepieces was surprisingly fine given the light pollution.

 

Fiske

Hello Fiske,

 

and thank you for the first light impressions!

 

Both the Nikon SP, and the BA8, have similar front lenses: Cemented doublets.

 

The tubes interiors have rough paint on the Nikon, black micro ridges on the BA8.

 

And the main difference is in the eyepieces, as checked with the green laser poninter:
Nikon has the lenses sequence (field stop - 2 - 1 - 1) with a small diameter eye lens and short eye relief.

BA8 has the inversed lenses sequence (field stop - 1 - 1 - 2) with the large diameter eye lens for a longer eye relief.

 

The cemented bonding of the doublets looks like from everywhere in Asia Pacific, with the typical diffuse spot on the cemented interface.

 

Otherwise the diffuse laser beam traces are comparable on these both binoculars.

 

Clear skies,

JG

 

PS: I have written a review on these both binoculars back in the past, and using the both binoculars since that time.
The BA8 binoculars show some variation when coming from the manufacturing, I have chosen the visibly better one from two when visiting Teleskop Service.

[Fiske]

In an interesting development, I received an email response from Mr Tsutomu Sakabe, Kyoei General Manager, explaining that they had been out of inventory earlier in the week so he ordered the instrument from Nikon and now had it in stock ready to ship.

 

He also provided a link to this helpful information page answering questions about International orders with Kyoei-Osaka. They have a seven day return policy if you are not satisfied with your purchase, which is a bit tight compared with the typical 30 day return policy from domestic companies. Also, to return you must use DHL. Kyoei only uses DHL for shipping. One of the answers on the information page states that domestic companies (like Nikon) do not service internationally purchased instruments, so for warranty service the instrument would have to be returned to Kyoei.

 

18. How should I do if I need repair service?
You have to send the items to us in your expense once you need repairing or other customer services. Please know that the items we sell won't be supported by any dealers and distributors in your country. The international shipping fee won't be very cheap. We would like to suggest that you should consider regarding such disadvantages in the international shopping before you place the order to us.

 

And yes, I ordered the binocular. Now on its way. 

 

Fiske

Edited by Fiske, 01 May 2021 - 12:39 PM.

[Erik Bakker]

Congratulations Fiske!

 

A wonderful instrument indeed and makes for a great pair with your Nikon 7x50 SP.

[Mark9473]

Interesting that they appear to have three of the Docter Nobilem available.

[Fiske]

Interesting that they appear to have three of the Docter Nobilem available.

It's a slippery slope, Mark...

 

 

Oh. Another bit of info from the Kyoei FAQ page is that email responses may require up to a week.

 

Fiske

Edited by Fiske, 01 May 2021 - 08:54 AM.

[Fiske]

Congratulations Fiske!

 

A wonderful instrument indeed and makes for a great pair with your Nikon 7x50 SP.

Thank you, Erik. I am naming the two instruments Erik Jr and Erik Sr. 

 

They will both feature in many future binocular observing reports on this forum, I'm sure. First light for the 10x70 SP may be the double stars 32 Camelopardalis and SHJ 136, which I observed Thursday evening with Big Jon (10x70 Resolux). Both double stars are visible in the same field -- a fine binocular view.  I am interested to see whether the field is significantly enhanced by the additional sharpness of the SP, since the two doubles are widely apart in the field and positioning them both in the view means they are well away from the center.

 

Fiske

[Northern]

I belive the Docter optics are out of stock.. Thats what they told me in January.

They also have a Kyoei-Tokyo store, and it says out of stock on all Docter optics.

 

 

I bought my Kowa 32x82 binoculars from them in Des/Jan.. well packed and good service.

[davidmcgo]

You will love the 10x70 Astroluxe!  I have one as well as the earlier 6.5 degree model and the feel and views are both remarkable yet different enough that I enjoy both.  Now if the earlier WF model had the newer coatings there’d be no contest at all.  But the Astroluxe is breathtakingly sharp and contrasty all the way across the field and way more comfortable with the smaller diameter foldable eyecups.  I also had an earlier style Fujinon Polaris 10x70 and felt the Astroluxe showed a bit more nebulousity on the Rosette Nebula in a side by side.  Not a huge difference but noticeable and maybe due to different color bias from coatings or glass.

 

Dave

[j.gardavsky]

I belive the Docter optics are out of stock.. Thats what they told me in January.

They also have a Kyoei-Tokyo store, and it says out of stock on all Docter optics.

 

 

I bought my Kowa 32x82 binoculars from them in Des/Jan.. well packed and good service.

The same happened with the last version of the DOCTER Nobilem Porro binoculars.

Suddenly, they have disappeared.

 

And today, when a pre-owned pair in top condition appears, we would pay in Germany more than what they cost as new.

 

JG