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Jupiter, 4 moons, Saturn, 6 moons, RGB + IR 2021-05-08

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#1 Ittaku

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 07:18 PM

The forecast was for clouds but I've had regrets on mornings where the forecast was borderline and ended up having periods of clear skies, so I got up at 5am anyway when I saw the sky was clear. By the time I had my camera set up, clouds rolled in and covered the entire sky. Not to be deterred I just grabbed a coffee and read the news till I noticed it clearing up again after 6am. I rushed out to set up but now found I was getting lots of dropped frames when I set up my 183MC camera before I had even started capturing anything. I couldn't figure out why this was the case when I had it managed fine previously but fortunately I had set my imaging train up for a quick switch between the MC and MM cameras because I had been planning to do a before and after. (The MM Pro camera has the buffered ram which seems virtually immune to dropping frames.) It turned out I was capturing to my laptop's HD by mistake instead of my external SSD. I didn't have time to do both cameras but I just managed to squeeze in a few captures of both Jupiter and Saturn, though the clouds billowed in before I could grab the IR of Saturn. Nonetheless seeing was above average so it was well worth the effort, and I guess I ended up doing mono RGB captures anyway. The discrete channels looked so good this time I thought I'd post them as well, the way other imagers do.

Captured at F/12 at a focal length of ~3400.

Celestron Deluxe CPC 1100 Edge HD, ZWO ASI 183MM Pro, Televue Barlow, Astronomik 2c RGB + IR742 Pro Planet
Firecapture, Autostakkert, The Gimp.

Jupiter and Io RGB. There's some interesting activity going on just west(?) of the Great Red Spot.
2021 05 07 2023 7 RGB Jupiter L6 ap81 planet


Europa, Jupiter, Io, Callisto, and Ganymede RGB. Looks like Callisto may have been in Jupiter's shadow.
2021 05 07 2023 7 RGB Jupiter L6 ap81 full 1600w


Jupiter Red channel
2021 05 07 2023 7 R Jupiter L6 ap81


Jupiter Green channel
2021 05 07 2024 2 G Jupiter L6 ap81


Jupiter Blue channel
2021 05 07 2024 7 B Jupiter L6 ap81


Jupiter IR742
2021 05 07 2027 8 IR742 Jupiter L6 ap78 planet


Saturn RGB
2021 05 07 2031 7 RGB Saturn L6 ap108 planet


Iapetus, Tethys, Saturn, Titan, Enceladus, Dione, and Rhea RGB
2021 05 07 2031 7 RGB Saturn full L6 ap111


Saturn Red channel
2021 05 07 2031 7 R Saturn L6 ap108


Saturn Green channel
2021 05 07 2033 7 G Saturn L6 ap108


Saturn Blue channel
2021 05 07 2035 7 B Saturn L6 ap108


Thanks for viewing.

Edited by Ittaku, 07 May 2021 - 08:51 PM.

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#2 Kokatha man

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:06 PM

The seeing for Jupiter looks like it was teasing you Con as it often does - on the verge of being very good but not quite...but still very good image outcomes! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

 

The mono images are a tad noisy but getting "true" mono images is the beauty of mono cameras Vs osc's, which I see you have been agonising over lately lol.gif - to me (& many others) they are as much a part of the capture objectives as the colour images & something the pro organisations look forward to seeing from AA'ers.

 

Splitting colour panes from a colour camera into individual channels is not the same!

 

That's a couple of great blue channels especially & gives a pointer to how the seeing was panning out, but I'm sure there'll be plenty more good nights this year! fingerscrossed.gif

 

Not quite sure what you're referring to here: <"(The MM camera has the buffered ram which seems virtually immune to dropping frames.)"> The only in-camera capabilities I'm aware of here for this camera (& ASI290MM) is the <"Non-volatile memory/On camera storage: Build-in total 192K byte user-accessible space(image size up to 480X320"> but I don't think you're referring to that aspect because a lot of the cameras have this... confused1.gif


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#3 Ittaku

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:16 PM

Not quite sure what you're referring to here: <"(The MM camera has the buffered ram which seems virtually immune to dropping frames.)"> The only in-camera capabilities I'm aware of here for this camera (& ASI290MM) is the <"Non-volatile memory/On camera storage: Build-in total 192K byte user-accessible space(image size up to 480X320"> but I don't think you're referring to that aspect because a lot of the cameras have this... confused1.gif

I have the MM Pro. The pro has the high-speed buffered ram.


Edited by Ittaku, 07 May 2021 - 08:38 PM.

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#4 Ittaku

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:44 PM

The seeing for Jupiter looks like it was teasing you Con as it often does - on the verge of being very good but not quite...but still very good image outcomes! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

 

The mono images are a tad noisy but getting "true" mono images is the beauty of mono cameras Vs osc's, which I see you have been agonising over lately lol.gif - to me (& many others) they are as much a part of the capture objectives as the colour images & something the pro organisations look forward to seeing from AA'ers.

 

Splitting colour panes from a colour camera into individual channels is not the same!

 

That's a couple of great blue channels especially & gives a pointer to how the seeing was panning out, but I'm sure there'll be plenty more good nights this year! fingerscrossed.gif

Thanks for the feedback. I'm very pleased with the results as I've only had sub-par from my mono camera till now, but I guess it has been hampered by poor seeing every time. Probably the biggest step up from what I could do last year I put down to using equatorial movement (on a wedge) now. As for "noisy", one of the compromises of using a very large 183 sensor pixel camera I knew I was making was significantly higher noise compared to say the 462 sensor. I was never quite sure how important this would end up being given the stacking effect on reducing noise, but perhaps it is a (minor?) issue. If only there was a 20 megapixel camera with the 462's profile. I had a QHY 462 last year but it misbehaved so much on linux I gave up and ended up selling it.

 

I agree on the blue channels; I've never captured that much detail in blue before. That's when I knew I'd be getting some above average images today. I also like how dramatically different the IR is from the red as well. I think these filters are the best by far, but I was hoping to use the Luminance one on the colour camera today instead. Either way I have the imaging train set up for a quick camera swap in the future.



#5 Kokatha man

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:04 PM

A sharp, dark Cassini Division in the blue filter image is a good sign of better than average seeing: you can "detect" the Encke Division ("detect" - not resolve, it displays as a contrast aspect) in the red & green & in some parts of the blue - which is pretty impressive! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

 

As to noise, my reference is of course to the final images displayed...usually any individual image would have a bit more noise suppression for any specific stack, but that's not some rule set in stone & the added sharpness in your images, albeit revealing more noise, makes them of more interest than had you suppressed it a bit more imo! You could supply 2 versions of each of course lol.gif & naturally when you process individual filter images from a mono camera you don't have to suppress the noise as much as you would for a colour/osc outcome, because combining the filter channel image stacks also reduces noise! wink.gif


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#6 Ittaku

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 02:07 AM

And now, I'm tempted to buy yet another 462... More tinkering with focal ratios to get it right again. By the way, I'm actually using a televue 1.8x barlow with the lens removed and placed closer to the camera, making it a 1.2x barlow. I have to move that forward a bit to make it 1.5x for the 462 sensor. smash.gif 



#7 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 08:40 PM

...yeah, I have one of those old Japanese Televue 1.8x barlows in excellent condition as part of my "arsenal" of barlows, their long body length combined with less magnification than the 2x Televue makes them a good option when using just the lens element - this also negates the lack of a compression band clamp on them. waytogo.gif


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#8 Tulloch

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 09:17 PM

How do you attach the TV Barlow to anything? Or was this made before they started using their own proprietary thread that doesn't screw into anything else?

 

P.S. Do you know the thread type of the TV barlows? I'd like to play around a bit with the 3x I have but of course it doesn't screw into anything else  Telescope.gif smash.gif flame.gif



#9 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 09:39 PM

How do you attach the TV Barlow to anything? Or was this made before they started using their own proprietary thread that doesn't screw into anything else?

 

P.S. Do you know the thread type of the TV barlows? I'd like to play around a bit with the 3x I have but of course it doesn't screw into anything else  Telescope.gif smash.gif flame.gif

Sheesh Andrew shocked.gif  - I've lost count of the number of times I've posted pikkies of various ways to set the imaging trains up without using anything but the lens element - incidentally I have cut threads to match the non-standard ones used on T/vues, not an easy task - but there are other ways to use just the lens element...I'll dig some pikkies out & post them later! ;)



#10 Ittaku

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 09:40 PM

How do you attach the TV Barlow to anything? Or was this made before they started using their own proprietary thread that doesn't screw into anything else?

 

P.S. Do you know the thread type of the TV barlows? I'd like to play around a bit with the 3x I have but of course it doesn't screw into anything else  Telescope.gif smash.gif flame.gif

Stick it in the compression ring attachment that comes with all zwo cameras.



#11 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 09:46 PM

Stick it in the compression ring attachment that comes with all zwo cameras.

...saves me digging out that pikky..! lol.gif I'm not sure about it coming with all ZWO cameras Con, but it is this thing that is best suited for that Andrew probably wants to know about as a "quick & easy" way. wink.gif

 

BarlowElementInFitting.png



#12 Tulloch

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 10:58 PM

Sheesh Andrew shocked.gif  - I've lost count of the number of times I've posted pikkies of various ways to set the imaging trains up without using anything but the lens element - incidentally I have cut threads to match the non-standard ones used on T/vues, not an easy task - but there are other ways to use just the lens element...I'll dig some pikkies out & post them later! wink.gif

Yeah, I know, and I remember you talking about getting the threads cut by someone, but if you/they knew what the thread type was it would be so much easier :)

 

Stick it in the compression ring attachment that comes with all zwo cameras.

The 224 doesn't come with one, and I use the one I have to attach the camera to the OTA.

 

It's just infuriating that they would use a thread that is incompatible with anything else, just to be difficult (or sell overpriced adapters).



#13 Ittaku

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 11:09 PM

Yeah, I know, and I remember you talking about getting the threads cut by someone, but if you/they knew what the thread type was it would be so much easier :)

The 224 doesn't come with one, and I use the one I have to attach the camera to the OTA.

It's just infuriating that they would use a thread that is incompatible with anything else, just to be difficult (or sell overpriced adapters).

I have what I feel is a trillion different adapters yet nothing fits any of my televue gear except their own adapters, and each item is uniquely different as well. I haven't even found an official adapter for this Barlow.
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#14 galacticinsomnia

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 11:13 PM

Really beautiful images !!  Fantastic work !!

 Clear Skies !!


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#15 Tulloch

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 11:18 PM

Oh yeah - and they are some great images :)


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#16 Ittaku

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 11:49 PM

Thanks guys, it's great to get praise from the people whose images and work I've admired and been envious of.

Edited by Ittaku, 09 May 2021 - 12:05 AM.

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#17 Tulloch

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 03:02 AM

... and surpassed (for some of us) sigh2.gif bawling.gif waytogo.gif


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#18 Ittaku

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 03:04 AM

... and surpassed (for some of us) sigh2.gifbawling.gifwaytogo.gif

Haha, not a chance. That's just aperture. I'm amazed how you seem to get as much and often more detail with less aperture. I just throw money at the problem.

Edited by Ittaku, 09 May 2021 - 03:04 AM.

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#19 Tulloch

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 05:59 PM

Thanks, but what you've been able to achieve in a short time takes more than just money ...


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#20 Ittaku

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 03:44 PM

I've gone through my past captures and realised these are probably the best ones I've ever grabbed, so an extra vote for RGB imaging. However, I still have colour alignment issues on Jupiter's moons, despite excellent tracking and equatorial movement. Still not sure whether to just stick to OSC for widescreen moon images. I barely get any colours for Saturn's moons except for Titan anyway so it doesn't matter much there, but Jupiter's Gallilean moons do have colour.


Edited by Ittaku, 10 May 2021 - 03:52 PM.


#21 Jkaiser3000

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 06:15 PM

I've gone through my past captures and realised these are probably the best ones I've ever grabbed, so an extra vote for RGB imaging. However, I still have colour alignment issues on Jupiter's moons, despite excellent tracking and equatorial movement. Still not sure whether to just stick to OSC for widescreen moon images. I barely get any colours for Saturn's moons except for Titan anyway so it doesn't matter much there, but Jupiter's Gallilean moons do have colour.

I use the 183MM’s smaller cousin for the planets, the 178MM and yes, Io especially is finicky with alignment but it’s rather easy to take care of. You just align the image as you normally would which leaves the moons slightly color smeared, then place a small square selection over the moon and align each channel individually. I usually leave the green channel untouched (as my base if you will) and align red and blue onto it. Using the arrow keys nudges the selection one pixel at a time while leaving the rest of the image intact. Usually only one or two nudges is all that is required to align them as they move a small amount in the 3-4 minutes it takes me to grab my RGB frames. I use PS but I’m sure Gimp has something similar wink.gif

 

p.s.: really nice images too cool.gif


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#22 Ittaku

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 06:18 PM

I use the 183MM’s smaller cousin for the planets, the 178MM and yes, Io especially is finicky with alignment but it’s rather easy to take care of. You just align the image as you normally would which leaves the moons slightly color smeared, then place a small square selection over the moon and align each channel individually. I usually leave the green channel untouched (as my base if you will) and align red and blue onto it. Using the arrow keys nudges the selection one pixel at a time while leaving the rest of the image intact. Usually only one or two nudges is all that is required to align them as they move a small amount in the 3-4 minutes it takes me to grab my RGB frames. I use PS but I’m sure Gimp has something similar wink.gif

 

p.s.: really nice images too cool.gif

Sure, I can do each moon manually, that's no problem. It just bugs me they didn't align when they basically should have, and you need do nothing in one shot colour. I don't think it's moon movement that prevented their alignment, as the colour misalignment is in a different plane to the moon movement.


Edited by Ittaku, 10 May 2021 - 06:18 PM.



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