34 replies to this topic

[Driver1955]

Why is the Celestron 127eq not considered a decent scope? Seems like a lot of folks don't like it or think it's below par.

[Augustus]

Bird-Jones with bad optics, a mount that cannot support it, a terrible finderscope, and a horrible low-power eyepiece. It's impossible to collimate, wobbles, delivers fuzzy images even when collimated, is hard to aim and might even tip over on you.

[vincentv]

As an ex-owner: everything Augustus said.

The explore scientific FirstLight 114 with twilight nano is a *much* better beginner scope. The finder is useless so budget for a rigel quickfinder.

 

Edit: I didn't realize the ES had gone up in price. The point stands, you can find better scopes for the money.

Edited by vincentv, 07 May 2021 - 08:54 PM.

[Augustus]

As an ex-owner: everything Augustus said.

The explore scientific FirstLight 114 with twilight nano is a *much* better beginner scope. The finder is useless so budget for a rigel quickfinder.

That thing has an undersized secondary mirror. A Z114 or StarBlast which has a properly sized secondary and actually decent finder/eyepieces is superior

[sevenofnine]

Augustus...besides that what's wrong with it? 

[Waynosworld]

It is really not a very good scope, there is not a lot you can do to improve it, I should know as I owned one for a few months(September/October 2020), I spent some money on it without improvement, I could see Saturn better with a Jason Explorer Telescope 400, that is a kids telescope that has plastic eyepieces and barlow.

 

There are way better telescopes out there that are easier to use, as already mentioned it was very hard to find things with it in the sky, the finder scope was close to useless, the mount gears to track stuff worked fine until they did not work, I finally figured out how to collimate it by removing the barlow lens in the focuser and get it perfect, then put the barlow lens back in it and barlow collimate it, I sold it to a guy that had a go to setup for that mount, maybe he would be able to find stuff with that as I spent most my time trying to find stuff in the sky as the moment I accidentally touched the finder scope it was useless.

 

All that said, both Jupiter and Saturn were so small in the eyepiece, and if I used my Celestron Zoom Eyepiece, when I would get to somewhere around 18mm things started getting blurry, at 12mm they were really blurry, if I put a barlow lens in the focuser things got bad fast as it already has a barlow to make Jupiter/Saturn small instead of a dot, I never was able to see bands on Jupiter or the rings separate from the planet Saturn, but it is better than nothing, but in the end I was either going to find something better or find another hobby, if my choice was looking at the sky with a Celestron Powerseeker 127EQ or looking at the sky flying remote control airplanes I would pick the remote control airplanes, but lucky for me I found a 14.5" Starsplitter F/4.5, and I seen details on Mars with that scope, now I realize that a giant heavy dob like that is not for everyone, but I also have come to realize that there are lots of affordable telescopes out there that are not a burden on the wallet, I sold a 6" Starhopper for $120.00 and it had a better view than that 127eq and it was easy to transport and find things but I did put a Telrad on it for my use, I sold it with a red dot finder, Telrads are awesome, it might have even made the 127eq less aggravating.

 

I have learned a lot in the last 6 months, and trying to use the Celestron Powerseeker 127eq is not worth it, if you were to start a thread to ask how to collimate that scope on here you might not get a reply as it is nearly impossible for a beginner to do.

Edited by Waynosworld, 07 May 2021 - 11:36 PM.

[Geo.]

Augustus...besides that what's wrong with it? 

They are very educational. Remove the field reducer and you have an excellent demonstrator of coma and other aberrations.

[Paul Sweeney]

Dog with fleas! Don't waste your money on trash like that.

I have a 114/500 version sitting in the cellar. Got it from a lady that bought it for her son. I gave her a proper 114/900 that delivers great images.

I have tried over and over to get this scope to work, to no avail. It is so poorly made. Someday, you might have a chance to look through one of these scopes. When you do, you will be glad that it's not yours.

Edited by Paul Sweeney, 08 May 2021 - 10:58 AM.

[aeajr]

Last point, it is on a poor quality EQ mount.   EQ mounts are specifically designed for astronomy so you would think that would be a positive.  But the cheap introductory EQ mount are generally poor quality.  In addition they are not intuitive to use so you have to learn about the equatorial coordinate system to take advantage of the design.

 

Altitude/Azimuth mounts are more intuitive. They work like a camera tripod.  Most people find them easier to use as a first scope/mount.  They also tend to be lighter so easier to transport.

 

 

How Much Does a First Telescope Cost?
https://telescopicwa...telescope-cost/

Refractor vs. Reflector – Which is better?
https://telescopicwa...tor-telescopes/

How to Use a Telescope:  First Time User’s Guide
https://telescopicwa...ope-user-guide/

 

 

 

Here are some better alternatives in the $200 to $300 range.

 

Orion StarBlast 4.5”( 114mm) reflector tabletop Dob – Extremely Popular scope – Often used as a library loaner

Includes red dot finder, 17 mm and 6 mm Kellner eyepieces – Consider adding a 2X Barlow Lens in the future
https://www.telescop...ts?keyword=4.5"

 

 

Zhumell 130 tabletop reflector –
Includes red dot finder and two eyepieces.  Consider adding a barlow lens for higher magnifications
https://www.highpoin...scope-zhus003-1
https://www.amazon.c...l 130 telescope
Review
https://www.thefreel......-a0499406822

 

 

AWB 'ONESKY' REFLECTOR TELESCOPE – Tabletop - 130 mm - 14 pounds – $199
Reviewed in Dec 2015 Sky and Telescope – gets many good reviews.  Collapsing design makes it very compact for storage and for transport. Includes finder scope and 2 eyepieces
Frequent out of stock situations so plan your purchase.
Consider adding a 2X barlow in the future
https://shop.astrono...ector-telescope
Video
https://www.youtube....h?v=-muZ9KRMY40
Product review
http://www.skyandtel...ds/3-scopes.pdf

Super Simple Tabletop telescope stand
https://www.youtube....h?v=HsGD9mU8cR0
http://www.eyesonthe...eTripod2x4.aspx

 

 

Meade StarPro 102 AltAz Refractor 
https://www.highpoin...efractor-234004
Video
https://www.youtube....h?v=x2CfjHIc8wU
https://www.youtube....h?v=FShh41TnRkE
Review
http://www.weasner.c...eade_StarProAZ/

 

 

Orion StarBlast 114mm AutoTracker Table top tracking reflector telescope 
Manual version received good review in December 2015 Sky and Telescope
Includes 2 eyepieces, finder scope and bracket to allow a camera to be attached to the mount.  Once you have centered the target you hit a button and this scope will track it for you.
http://www.telescope...yCategoryId=339
Video
https://www.youtube....h?v=LJLWCY92tQo
https://www.youtube....h?v=q88miEUq70Q
Practical tips for use
https://www.youtube....h?v=jkB2UyelyP4

 

 

Orion SkyQuest XT4.5 Kit - Classic Dobsonian Telescope with extras.  - 18 pounds – $249 –
Includes more than the basic scope which has 4.5”/114 mm, 2 eyepieces, finder scope.  To this they add a 2X barlow for higher magnification, Planisphere, red flashlight, moon map and an observers guide. 
All things to help you get started right.  The mount sits on the floor or a short table and is VERY stable and very easy to use.
https://www.telescop...s?keyword=XT4.5
Review
http://www.thetelesc...skyquest-xt4-5/
https://www.cloudyni...xt45/?p=5671360
Video
https://www.youtube....h?v=-SAnFX8IKPY
https://www.telescop...yPriceAscending

 

 

Orion SkQuest XT6 kit –– 34 pounds
Popular 6” Dobsonian scope package with useful accessories beyond what is part of the standard scope.   Includes 2 eyepieces, 2X barlow, Planisphere, Moon map, beginner observers guide and red flashlight.  All things you will need.  This is a floor standing scope that is very stable and very easy to use.
https://www.telescop...yPriceAscending

Video
https://www.youtube....h?v=zonuiO7h4gs

[Angeles]

Yes the mount is big downer eq1 it dhould be on eq2

And the barlow in focuser is not great it has a spherical mirror but if they made it f8 or f9 even with this mirror and no Barlow in Focuser it would be a much better scope

But a long tube scope cant go on a eq1 has to be min eq2

Also 5x24 finder stinks plus the 127 uses hygens eps the worst ones u can have.
Put that all together and not a great scope

[Dave Mitsky]

There's more on the optically-inferior Bird-Jones catadioptric reflectors at http://astrowiki.jmh...Jones_Telescope and https://skyandtelesc...pes-not-to-buy/

[Dave Mitsky]

Be aware that there are some truly bogus reviews of this telescope online.

[radiofm74]

Be aware that there are some truly bogus reviews of this telescope online.

I second that, and not only on Amazon. There are glowing reviews on specialized sites. And they're all wrong. From first hand experience, the only review that accurately assesses the 127EQ is the one on telescopicwatch.com … and it's not kind!

 

To all owners of the 127 – I feel your pain! Been in your shoes just a few months ago!

[aeajr]

Here is an honest review.
https://telescopicwa...lescope-review/

[aeajr]

I don't own any of the PowerSeeker series but most of the reviews I have read about them have been less than glowing.   I generally tell people to avoid them.

[radiofm74]

Here is an honest review.
https://telescopicwa...lescope-review/

This is the one I referenced. True to the last detail, alas… 

[Dave Mitsky]

Untruth in advertising?  

https://www.celestro...#specifications

OPTICAL TUBE INFO:

 

Optical Design: Newtonian Reflector

[Angeles]

isnt this a consumer fault tho?

 

They sell cause its cheap & alot people buy them cause they dont want to spend $500 $700 for a hobby they dont know if they want or will stay in?

 

So they buy a $200 5" scope cause its not alot and if they dont stay in it they didnt pay that much and will sell it on used market for bit less then they got it etc?

 

I mean with the internet now around for over 30 years they can google good scope or bad there millions on youtube channels reviews on chat forums like this BUT they dont get any info first they just buy it cause it cheap.

 

Its really on them then

 

I mean there is like Polaris model that's on a eq2 not a eq1 and its 130mm f5 BUT with a parabolic mirror & better eps  & finderscope

 

Yes its $100 more retail but they choose they cheaper $200 model

Edited by Angeles, 11 May 2021 - 07:44 AM.

[rhetfield]

isnt this a consumer fault tho?

 

They sell cause its cheap & alot people buy them cause they dont want to spend $500 $700 for a hobby they dont know if they want or will stay in?

 

So they buy a $200 5" scope cause its not alot and if they dont stay in it they didnt pay that much and will sell it on used market for bit less then they got it etc?

 

I mean with the internet now around for over 30 years they can google good scope or bad there millions on youtube channels reviews on chat forums like this BUT they dont get any info first they just buy it cause it cheap.

 

Its really on them then

 

I mean there is like Polaris model that's on a eq2 not a eq1 and its 130mm f5 BUT with a parabolic mirror & better eps  & finderscope

 

Yes its $100 more retail but they choose they cheaper $200 model

It is very easy to get information overload on the internet these days.  Making matters worse, probably 95% of the information on the internet is garbage.  Lots of sifting to find the good info.  If you don't already know about something, you have no frame of reference to use to filter out the good from the bad.  Unfortunately our education system is increasingly lacking - especially in areas of science and engineering - so most people only know what they find on the internet.

 

I found a decent scope because a friend recommended it.  I found this site because the seller of the scope linked to here. 

[Angeles]

It is very easy to get information overload on the internet these days.  Making matters worse, probably 95% of the information on the internet is garbage.  Lots of sifting to find the good info.  If you don't already know about something, you have no frame of reference to use to filter out the good from the bad.  Unfortunately our education system is increasingly lacking - especially in areas of science and engineering - so most people only know what they find on the internet.

 

I found a decent scope because a friend recommended it.  I found this site because the seller of the scope linked to here. 

ok i hear you although iam not sure 95% is garbage but ill leave that alone

 

There are several forum tho with 100 of thousands of people on each there lots good youtuber on youtube.

 

You can tell the good ones from the not so good

 

Some will tell you how long they been in hobby and how many scope they owned or used. Some of them only have 1 or 2 vids of only 1 scope and hundreds of other videos then i may say they may not know alot about scope s etc. BUT there are others that own several scopes & you can tell by how they talk if they know the telescope or viewing or not.

 

I still believe its a cost thing most just don't want to spend 500  or more for their first scope. I personally hear brand new people think 300 is alot to spend even last week, a friend told me they cant afford a scope.

 

Meanwhile his car was $29,000, he goes to restaurant's semi often (well before) now its take out. He spends a ton on gas driving everyday and goes to grocery shopping every day ot every other day.

 

I replied no it doesn't have to be expensive 300 for a good starter USED scope will do him fine, but never got a reply.

Edited by Angeles, 11 May 2021 - 08:42 AM.

[Augustus]

Here is an honest review.
https://telescopicwa...lescope-review/

Written by me 

[aeajr]

A quick tip on reading Amazon reviews or reviews on other retail sites.

 

Look for the ones written by experienced people.   Someone who mentions their experience, perhaps other scopes they have.  Even experienced people write reviews on beginner scopes. I know I have.

 

The product may have 4.5 stars but 1/2 of them might be by Grandma who brought it for their 9 year old Grandson and he loves it so she gave it 5 stars.  Nothing wrong with that review but you should not rely on that for your evaluation of whether to buy.

 

Look at the poor ratings.  Again, some will be by people who have no experience and may have given a poor review because they couldn't put it together or it would not let them see the LM on the Moon.   They may be disappointed because Andromeda Galaxy doesn't look like the photos.    These reviews are not helpful.

 

Again, look for the experienced reviewers who may fault the product for a wobbly mount or poor image quality.  

 

This can take a little time as there might be 500 reviews, but you want to get the best information.

 

Eyepieces - Remember that you will surely buy more eyepieces.  Poor quality eyepieces in the starter package is a valid concern but most of us replace those included eyepieces after a short while.  Not all the starter eyepieces are bad.  Some of the Kellners, modified achromats and Plossls included in starter packages are quite good, within their design class, but we tend to upgrade from those starter eyepieces as we expand our eyepiece set. 

 

I still have some of the ones that came with my scopes.  Others I have given away to help others get started.  The really bad ones went in the trash. 

Edited by aeajr, 11 May 2021 - 10:53 AM.

[Angeles]

i agree aeajr i have seen bad reviews but seemed like their expectations where way off like they thought it look like the hubble etc. & i have seem thos that gave it a 5star rating after they put it together but haven't looked through it yet.

cheers

[aeajr]

My expectations for my first scope were quite different from my expectations now.  When  commenting on a beginner package or a more advanced option I try to keep the price and design of a scope in mind when I evaluate it.  Who was this scope targeted at and what is the price range?  What else is in this price range that might be a better choice? 

 

In the case of the 127EQ, I compare it to the alternatives, not against some absolute scale.  I don't compare it to an $800 package with better optics and a better mount.  I compare it to scopes around $150 to $250 for the full package.

 

I loved my ETX80 as my first scope.  It ticked all the boxes for me and was the perfect first scope for me.  I have recommended it to may beginners, but I now know its short comings and always bring them up. For its price and what it is designed to be, I still think it is a great starter scope package.  But it would not be what I would buy today, for my use, and it is no longer my primary scope.  However I plan to keep it and make good use of it where its strengths apply.

 

The last two scopes I purchased are ones I would have never even considered when looking for my first scope.  They are either too expensive or too big or both.  When I started I was getting in on a limited budget under very light polluted sky conditions.  And I was not sure how committed I was to the hobby.  

 

So, context is important for what I buy, what I recommend, and how I read reviews. 

Edited by aeajr, 11 May 2021 - 11:20 AM.

[radiofm74]

isnt this a consumer fault tho?

 

They sell cause its cheap & alot people buy them cause they dont want to spend $500 $700 for a hobby they dont know if they want or will stay in?

 

So they buy a $200 5" scope cause its not alot and if they dont stay in it they didnt pay that much and will sell it on used market for bit less then they got it etc?

 

I mean with the internet now around for over 30 years they can google good scope or bad there millions on youtube channels reviews on chat forums like this BUT they dont get any info first they just buy it cause it cheap.

 

Its really on them then

 

I mean there is like Polaris model that's on a eq2 not a eq1 and its 130mm f5 BUT with a parabolic mirror & better eps  & finderscope

 

Yes its $100 more retail but they choose they cheaper $200 model

Yes. And no. In November I was asked to order a telescope for my son and given a budget by my father-in-law. Not knowing zip about telescopes or astronomy or astronomy fora at the time, I still spent a few good hours of my time on the internet and kind of got it that aperture was important. And I stumbled across this little light telescope with a goodly 5" for exactly the budget allotted. Did I just unthinkingly press the "buy now" button? Nope. Not being a trusting one, I dug deeper – NOT Amazon reviews, but specialized reviews that said that performance was good, great bang for the buck, ok for all Messier objects ("whatever they are…" ). And then I bought it. Luckily I got severely bitten by the bug, started reading more, found this site and telescopicwatch.com and Phil Harrington, and realized that I should return it – just in time, and boy did the seller put up a fight not to give back the money. 

 

The whole story to tell you that even reasonably prudent "first-time-in-astronomy" consumers can be snared. Amazon reviews, true or fake, cannot really be blamed: anyone blindly trusting them is looking for trouble. But specialized sites offering glowing reviews of the 127EQ?

 

I'm all the more grateful to Ed, Zane and the whole crew at telescopicwatch for the painstaking, honest work they do in reviewing loads of stuff with an emphasis on gear for unwary beginners.   That's the reason I suggest their website to everyone asking questions about their first scope on here.