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Advantage of a dual-scope setup

CMOS DSO EAA
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#1 GazingOli

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 11:57 AM

I am using a combo of a selfmade 80/480 triplet apo riding on a CPC800 which gives me the advantage of having two different FOVs at the same time.

 

20210109_213925resized2.jpg

 

As I am using two cameras that are almost the same, the ASI 178MM and the ASI178MC, I can show the Leo Triplet as an example:

 

First the overview with the apo @f/4.2 and the ASI178 MM: 66 frames x 8s, resized

 

Leo Triplet Olif4.2ASI178MM_66frames_528s_resized.jpg

 

 

and here are the closeups of all three individual with the C8:

 

 

M 65 with C8 @f/6.3 and ASI178MC: 46 frames x 8s, resized

 

LeoTriplM65 C8f6.3ASI178MC_46frames_368s_resized.jpg

 

 

M 66 with C8 @f/6.3 and ASI178MC: 52 frames x 8s, resized

 

LeoTriplM66 C8f6.3ASI178MC_52frames_416s_resized.jpg

 

 

NGC 3628 with C8 @f/6.3ASI178MC: 66 frames x 8s, resized

 

LeoTriplNGC3628 HHGx C8f6.3ASI178MC_66frames_528s_resized.jpg

 

Great show! However I am thinking of buying an ASI 183 to get an even wider FOV for the apo refractor.

 

CS.Oli


Edited by GazingOli, 10 May 2021 - 12:15 PM.

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#2 alphatripleplus

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 12:17 PM

Yes, I do agree it is fun to have a small APO riding piggyback on a larger scope if you want to shoot the same target with different scopes/FOVs for comparison. Usually, I will stick with one scope during an evening, but having the flexibility to do instant comparisons is good.



#3 Broglock

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 12:33 PM

ASI 533 pro and the Edge HD 9.25" w/ 0.7x Edge FR  andthe ASI 294 pro and the Stellarvue Access 102ED w/ Orion 0.8x FR, which btw is very close to the FOV of the Hyperstar on the 9.25" although hard to beat the F/2. I have only just started using this setup and having both views available is rather nice!waytogo.gif

You will need to rotate this image in your mind, since I can not figure it out from my phone!lol.gif

You get the ideal!waytogo.gif

 

6FEBB22E-3952-4627-86B7-A8EF92F4FE19.jpeg


Edited by Broglock, 10 May 2021 - 12:50 PM.

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#4 GazingOli

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 12:41 PM

Yes, I do agree it is fun to have a small APO riding piggyback on a larger scope if you want to shoot the same target with different scopes/FOVs for comparison. Usually, I will stick with one scope during an evening, but having the flexibility to do instant comparisons is good.

Usually I do not use it for comparison but for differently sized targets in the same area of the night-sky. Leo war just a great example to show the different FOVs.

 

I must admid that I do prefer the smaller FOV and better resolution of the C8 because I like the closeups of the galaxies and other objects that fit into the FOV of that sope/camera combo. However when it comes to nebuelae I need the apo with the bigger FOV.

 

CS.Oli


Edited by GazingOli, 10 May 2021 - 12:42 PM.

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#5 Broglock

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 12:59 PM

Usually I do not use it for comparison but for differently sized targets in the same area of the night-sky. Leo war just a great example to show the different FOVs.

 

I must admid that I do prefer the smaller FOV and better resolution of the C8 because I like the closeups of the galaxies and other objects that fit into the FOV of that sope/camera combo. However when it comes to nebuelae I need the apo with the bigger FOV.

 

CS.Oli

Ditto! I like the Hyperstar as well, however the smaller FOV is much nicer just slower!



#6 bips3453

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 01:05 PM

Very nice setups!

Do you have to worry about balancing to have smooth tracking?



#7 Broglock

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 01:22 PM

Very nice setups!

Do you have to worry about balancing to have smooth tracking?

That particular setup balances out nicely and thus far have gone as much as 15s subs w/o issues.


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#8 Alien Observatory

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 01:54 PM

Have had this configuration for about a year now and it seems to work well for everything... Pat Utah smile.gif

 

CPC 9.25 with ZWO 1600 Color, 6.3 FR and the TV 101 mounted topside with a ZWO 183 mono.  ADM Balance Weight's on bottom-side.

Attached Thumbnails

  • CPC 9.25_TV 101.jpeg

Edited by Alien Observatory, 10 May 2021 - 01:58 PM.

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#9 Cey42

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 07:19 PM

This month I finally got my dual scope set up going

 

Celestron 8” SCT with f6.3 and ZWO 294MC. This gives a FOV of .86deg X .58deg

 

SkyWatcher 50mm with field flattener and ZWO 187MC. This gives a FOV of 1.76deg X 1.18deg. If I use the 294MC FOV jumps to 4.54deg X 3.09deg

 

Having this combination was good for this month’s challenge of Markarian’s Chain. I was able to get it all in the 50mm. Looking forward to summer and trying this out on the larger nebula, like the Veil.

 

Most of viewing will continue to be with the SCT because I like planetary nebulae and galaxies. But it will be nice to have the flexibility to quick

 

scope.jpg


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#10 GazingOli

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 12:36 AM

looks great! The Evoguide is a nice idea for widefield EAA.

 

CS.Oli

 

(type mismatch: ZWO 187MC = 178?)


Edited by GazingOli, 11 May 2021 - 12:36 AM.


#11 HSTeach

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 12:58 AM

I am using a combo of a selfmade 80/480 triplet apo riding on a CPC800 which gives me the advantage of having two different FOVs at the same time.

 

attachicon.gif20210109_213925resized2.jpg

 

As I am using two cameras that are almost the same, the ASI 178MM and the ASI178MC, I can show the Leo Triplet as an example:

 

 

Hello,

How do you manage both cameras simultaneously?  Are you using sharpcap?  Asiair pro?  Do you platesolving on both?   This is intriguing!

 

Thanks, Phil



#12 GazingOli

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 01:09 AM

Hi Phil,

 

I never tried to use both cameras simulaneously. But this could be a good idea to try! You can open SharpCap twice - one for each camera. I do not know, however, what computer power is required and if it would work.

 

I am using SharpCap only. Platesolving is on my todo-list. At present  I am using the CPC goto.

 

CS.Oli



#13 Mark Brickley

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 04:42 AM

I am using a combo of a selfmade 80/480 triplet apo riding on a CPC800 which gives me the advantage of having two different FOVs at the same time.

 

attachicon.gif20210109_213925resized2.jpg

 

As I am using two cameras that are almost the same, the ASI 178MM and the ASI178MC, I can show the Leo Triplet as an example:

 

First the overview with the apo @f/4.2 and the ASI178 MM: 66 frames x 8s, resized

 

attachicon.gifLeo Triplet Olif4.2ASI178MM_66frames_528s_resized.jpg

 

 

and here are the closeups of all three individual with the C8:

 

 

M 65 with C8 @f/6.3 and ASI178MC: 46 frames x 8s, resized

 

attachicon.gifLeoTriplM65 C8f6.3ASI178MC_46frames_368s_resized.jpg

 

 

M 66 with C8 @f/6.3 and ASI178MC: 52 frames x 8s, resized

 

attachicon.gifLeoTriplM66 C8f6.3ASI178MC_52frames_416s_resized.jpg

 

 

NGC 3628 with C8 @f/6.3ASI178MC: 66 frames x 8s, resized

 

attachicon.gifLeoTriplNGC3628 HHGx C8f6.3ASI178MC_66frames_528s_resized.jpg

 

Great show! However I am thinking of buying an ASI 183 to get an even wider FOV for the apo refractor.

 

CS.Oli

I have a asi183gt which I like very much, there is something about the fov and image scale with a short fl scope that works very nicely. I get usable images in 2 mins and great ones in 10 on a 420mm scope albeit at f2.8



#14 alphatripleplus

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 07:23 AM

Hello,

How do you manage both cameras simultaneously?  Are you using sharpcap?  Asiair pro?  Do you platesolving on both?   This is intriguing!

 

Thanks, Phil

When I have switched between scopes, I will nearly always use plate solving on the scope/camera I am switching to, as usually the field of view of each scope is not precisely aligned to the other scope's FOV. No problem, as plate solving with the camera you are using to capture will locate and centre the target.

 

I use ASTAP as my main platesolver - very fast and reliable - and either SharpCap or CCDCiel to call ASTAP for centring an image. Most of the time I use ASILive for actual captures after I've platesolved, but ASILive (unlike ASIAIR Pro) does not call a plate solver.



#15 Cey42

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 12:52 PM

Yes that was a typo. I have the ZWO 178MC on the EvoGuide.

 

 

I tried running two SharpCaps at a time but as alphatripleplus mentions that the two scopes are not perfectly aligned. So I switched to running one SharpCap and then switching which scope it was using and plate-solving (ASTAP) to center. I was surprised how well it worked out. SharpCap remembers the previous settings for the camera, so it was painless to switch.

 


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#16 alphatripleplus

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 01:15 PM

With ASTAP, the field of view is a persistent setting, so if you change cameras (hence FOV), SharpCap will still start with the FOV of the last time it called ASTAP. If I swap cameras and change  the FOV size, I will run ASTAP.exe and change the FOV setting directly in that program, and then SharpCap will pick it up the next time SharpCap calls ASTAP. It would be nice if SharpCap had a setting when running ASTAP that allowed one to specify the FOV within SharpCap, but the workaround I described seems to be fine.

 

If you don't change the FOV setting, and SharpCap starts  with the wrong FOV it will eventually cycle through various combinations and figure out the new FOV, but that takes time.


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#17 Bazooka302

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 05:42 AM

I posted this in the Mounts forum, but thought it would be appropriate here as well.

   I've been using my AZ-GTE for a couple of weeks, but now I've got it configured the way I want after all my parts were finally delivered. I have a dual scope setup... an Apertura 72EDR using a Planet One Neptune-C II camera and a Computar 75mm-12.5mm f1.2 TV c-mount zoom lens with a Svbony SV105 camera. Each is mounted on ADM saddles with a Celestron CG-2 counterweight shaft in between. I made a fine adjustment bracket for aligning the Computar lens to the main scope in alt, no adjustment in az, relying on the common shaft for close enough. I measured 0-10' off... good enough as the wide angle scope is just to act as an e-finder and get the main scope in the neighborhood. Hanging off the shaft is a 6000 mAh Li-Ion battery pack, acting as a bit of an extra counterweight. The hook makes it easy to remove for recharging, although I haven't even put a dent in the battery yet. One other mod... I moved the leg clamps on the tripod spreader up a few inches. Since I'm using this strictly alt-az for EAA, I don't need to extend the lower tripod legs, but that made the mount feeling just a little tippy. By moving the spreader clamps up, the angle between the legs increases, I got mine to go from 22" between the leg tips to 25". Seems more stable now.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_6662a.jpg
  • IMG_6663a.jpg
  • IMG_6664a.jpg
  • IMG_6665a.jpg

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#18 GazingOli

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 08:47 AM

would be great to have some images of celestrial objects done with your setup!

 

CS.Oli


Edited by GazingOli, 12 May 2021 - 08:48 AM.


#19 bips3453

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 09:26 AM

I posted this in the Mounts forum, but thought it would be appropriate here as well.

   I've been using my AZ-GTE for a couple of weeks, but now I've got it configured the way I want after all my parts were finally delivered. I have a dual scope setup... an Apertura 72EDR using a Planet One Neptune-C II camera and a Computar 75mm-12.5mm f1.2 TV c-mount zoom lens with a Svbony SV105 camera. Each is mounted on ADM saddles with a Celestron CG-2 counterweight shaft in between. I made a fine adjustment bracket for aligning the Computar lens to the main scope in alt, no adjustment in az, relying on the common shaft for close enough. I measured 0-10' off... good enough as the wide angle scope is just to act as an e-finder and get the main scope in the neighborhood. Hanging off the shaft is a 6000 mAh Li-Ion battery pack, acting as a bit of an extra counterweight. The hook makes it easy to remove for recharging, although I haven't even put a dent in the battery yet. One other mod... I moved the leg clamps on the tripod spreader up a few inches. Since I'm using this strictly alt-az for EAA, I don't need to extend the lower tripod legs, but that made the mount feeling just a little tippy. By moving the spreader clamps up, the angle between the legs increases, I got mine to go from 22" between the leg tips to 25". Seems more stable now.

Nice setup! I am working on something similar using iOptron Cube. I like the adjustment bracket for lens alignment, I am having some challenge there. 

 

PS: I would keep the setup a little farther away from the pool on dark nights to avoid any accidents... :-)


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#20 Bazooka302

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 09:29 AM

Very, very new at this, so I don't have a lot to show.

 

 

M3: 61 frames x 9 seconds

M51: 42 frames x 8.5 seconds. Needed much more time but clouds came.

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Stack_61frames_543s_WithDisplayStretch-2a.jpg
  • Stack_42frames_358s_WithDisplayStretch-2a.jpg

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#21 Bazooka302

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 11:49 AM

Nice setup! I am working on something similar using iOptron Cube. I like the adjustment bracket for lens alignment, I am having some challenge there. 

 

PS: I would keep the setup a little farther away from the pool on dark nights to avoid any accidents... :-)

I am lucky I'm a mechanical engineer that can CNC program and machine (I run the CNC machining department at work). smile.gif   I have to use the scope near the pool in order to see anything to the north, but one of the advantages of EAA is that you don't need dark adapted vision, so there's always a light on in my covered patio, and besides an initial focusing, I'm running everything from 6 ft away on a laptop.

 

https://www.cloudyni...752-pdm-020372/


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#22 bips3453

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 11:53 AM

I am lucky I'm a mechanical engineer that can CNC program and machine (I run the CNC machining department at work). smile.gif   

 

https://www.cloudyni...752-pdm-020372/

That looks amazing!


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#23 bmcclana

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Posted 14 May 2021 - 04:01 PM

I posted this in the Mounts forum, but thought it would be appropriate here as well.

   I've been using my AZ-GTE for a couple of weeks, but now I've got it configured the way I want after all my parts were finally delivered. I have a dual scope setup... an Apertura 72EDR using a Planet One Neptune-C II camera and a Computar 75mm-12.5mm f1.2 TV c-mount zoom lens with a Svbony SV105 camera. Each is mounted on ADM saddles with a Celestron CG-2 counterweight shaft in between. I made a fine adjustment bracket for aligning the Computar lens to the main scope in alt, no adjustment in az, relying on the common shaft for close enough. I measured 0-10' off... good enough as the wide angle scope is just to act as an e-finder and get the main scope in the neighborhood. Hanging off the shaft is a 6000 mAh Li-Ion battery pack, acting as a bit of an extra counterweight. The hook makes it easy to remove for recharging, although I haven't even put a dent in the battery yet. One other mod... I moved the leg clamps on the tripod spreader up a few inches. Since I'm using this strictly alt-az for EAA, I don't need to extend the lower tripod legs, but that made the mount feeling just a little tippy. By moving the spreader clamps up, the angle between the legs increases, I got mine to go from 22" between the leg tips to 25". Seems more stable now.

 

I'm very curious to see what you can do with that computar zoom lens.  

 

I have one just like it that I rescued from an old Zygo that was about to go in the trash. I printed an adapter to mount my Mars-C and put the whole thing on a mount with a finder shoe. I have only played with it a couple times.  fun to get an FOV that is pushing 25 degrees wide.  I could almost fit the whole big dipper and can easily fit Orion (except when he is behind a tree....)

 

I also have 25mm and 50mm C-mount TV/film lenses to try.

 

I'm really tempted to get a 2nd camera to be able to run one of these with a bigger scope at the same time.



#24 Bazooka302

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Posted 14 May 2021 - 09:17 PM

I'm very curious to see what you can do with that computar zoom lens.  

 

I have one just like it that I rescued from an old Zygo that was about to go in the trash. I printed an adapter to mount my Mars-C and put the whole thing on a mount with a finder shoe. I have only played with it a couple times.  fun to get an FOV that is pushing 25 degrees wide.  I could almost fit the whole big dipper and can easily fit Orion (except when he is behind a tree....)

 

I also have 25mm and 50mm C-mount TV/film lenses to try.

 

I'm really tempted to get a 2nd camera to be able to run one of these with a bigger scope at the same time.

I hadn't really planned to image with that lens, it was more of a finder and and something to play with, but I'll give it a try. Weather has been bad lately, and now I'm out of town, so maybe next week I can see what it can do. I also have similar Sony and Panasonic lens, I'll be trying them out to see which is the best.



#25 Larry Mc

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Posted 14 May 2021 - 11:37 PM

I like doing 'Combo' EAA too!

My “Travel telescope”, (which is currently parked in my backyard), is an 8" Celestron SCT optical tube on an Atlas EQ6 Gem mount using a ZWO ASI294MC Pro camera. Piggybacked on top is an old C-mount Canon '25mm - 100mm' zoom lens with a ZWO ASI290MC color camera attached that I use as a wide-field ‘finder’. And an Arcturus Optical 60mm f4 (240mm focal length) refractor and ZWO ASI120MC camera that I normally use as a guidescope.

 

The ASI294MC Pro color camera has a ZWO filter drawer, (with additional filter pockets), and a 2" ZWO IR/UV cut filter, along with a 2" Optolong L-Pro light-pollution filter and L-eNhance narrowband filter.  This gives me a complete interchangeable 2" filter set that covers planetary, (IR/UV), starclusters & galaxies (L-Pro), and emission nebula (L-eNhance).

 

The Canon Len's zoom is a nice feature to have depending on the object. Here's an example of Orion's Belt & Sword using the Canon Zoom @ 25mm & f5.6 (ROI=1936x1096, Sharpcap livestacked 30 second subs for 10 minutes, no filters)

 

Occasionally, I get wild & crazy and attach the ASI294 to the 60mm and use the filters to take wide-field images. Here's a shot of the HorseHead and Flame (ROI=4144x2822, Sharpcap livestacked 30 second subs for 40 minutes, L-eNhance filter) I need to get a field-flattener for the 60mm! lol

More on my wide-field objects page:  http://stellar-journ...eField-tour.htm

 

It's fun observing the same object with simultaneous different field of views!

Attached Thumbnails

  • scope1.jpg
  • canon-zoom-01.jpg
  • Orions-Belt-11132020.jpg
  • Arcturus 60mm f4 240mm.jpg
  • B33-Flame-11122020.jpg

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