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A Mogey Restoration

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#151 starman876

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 04:06 PM

Looks genuine to me; I'd use it. The brass pin helping to attach it to the turned wood handle is a detail I've seen frequently on 19th century telescopes. Here's an image showing the two slow motion control rods on my Dollond from ~1830.

 

--Ken

in your picture there are some cylinders near the focuser, what are they for?  On the wood tube I have  it looks like at one time there was something attached near the objective.  There are three holes and on the inside you can see the impressions of where square nuts used to be.   Any clue what would have been attached there?



#152 Ken Launie

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 04:53 PM

in your picture there are some cylinders near the focuser, what are they for?  On the wood tube I have  it looks like at one time there was something attached near the objective.  There are three holes and on the inside you can see the impressions of where square nuts used to be.   Any clue what would have been attached there?

They're telescoping stabilizers. Their length can change as the tube is swung about. They have tapered pins at the bottom that drop into holes at the base of the three feet of the stand. As the scope is swung about in azimuth the lower ends can be swapped back and forth. Here's a wider angle view that will explain all (I think):

 

In my Dollond's case there are two, attaching near the eyepiece, but I've seen many examples where there's just a single stabilizing rod at the front end. That may be what yours had at one time. I have a large Browning Newtonian with such a front stabilizer. Here's a photo of that beast, on the right:

 

--Ken

Attached Thumbnails

  • Dollond rear stabilizers.jpg
  • Browning as found 2.jpg

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#153 starman876

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 06:16 PM

My Harris scope has provisions for the stabilizers , but I do not have any.  you do not see them pop up for sale very often.



#154 starman876

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 12:26 PM

I have been doing some research and wood tubes went out of style about 1860.   This places the scope at a much earlier time than the mount.   Any opinions?



#155 ccwemyss

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 03:29 PM

I have been doing some research and wood tubes went out of style about 1860.   This places the scope at a much earlier time than the mount.   Any opinions?

You're very lucky?

 

None of my 19th century astronomy books talk about makers other than for big observatory instruments. The 1898 Amateur Telescopist's Handbook does say that bubbles in the glass should be avoided if possible, but if they can't, it only reduces the light gathering by a tiny amount. It also says that wood tubes can take longer to cool, and produce more tube currents. So it seems that although bubble-free glass was first developed in 1805, bubbles were still common later in the century, especially for smaller scopes. But, as you say, wood tubes were falling out of favor before then. However, if it was made by an amateur or small shop, it could have been a bit later than 1860. 

 

 

Chip W. 



#156 starman876

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 03:43 PM

You're very lucky?

 

None of my 19th century astronomy books talk about makers other than for big observatory instruments. The 1898 Amateur Telescopist's Handbook does say that bubbles in the glass should be avoided if possible, but if they can't, it only reduces the light gathering by a tiny amount. It also says that wood tubes can take longer to cool, and produce more tube currents. So it seems that although bubble-free glass was first developed in 1805, bubbles were still common later in the century, especially for smaller scopes. But, as you say, wood tubes were falling out of favor before then. However, if it was made by an amateur or small shop, it could have been a bit later than 1860. 

 

 

Chip W. 

I just wish there was a way to date the scope and figure out who made it.   I might have to take the lens out and  examine it closer



#157 Ken Launie

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 05:24 PM

I know of a Clark wooden tube refractor dated 1867, and I believe there are some from even later. It's not like every maker got the idea to change what they were doing at the same time, and a given maker might have had different buyers with different tube preferences in the same year. In my opinion the tube assembly was made around the 1860's, two or three decades before the mount it's now on. The holes near the objective probably indicate a stabilizer from a previous mount that might still have been too shaky, for example. Many scopes get remounted after all.

 

--Ken


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#158 starman876

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 05:43 PM

Lathes to slice wood veneer started about 1820.   The veneer on the tube is very well made.  even though wood veneer dates much earlier the fact that is so smooth indicates it was machine cut and fitted to the tube.



#159 starman876

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Posted 31 May 2021 - 04:58 PM

have not been working on the scope much this week.  Been busy getting the solarium ready to set up.   


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#160 starman876

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 06:36 AM

Going to take the legs to a place that does paint stripping.   Just not going to sand what is most likely lead paint.    Paint stripper was OK, but no sanding. 


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#161 mpsteidle

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 08:46 AM

Any news on the legs?



#162 starman876

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 10:05 AM

Been busy making the footers for the solariam.  Will get back to the legs shortly.  Thanks for the interest.


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#163 mpsteidle

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 03:27 PM

Where are the legs!  I am dying to see this thing assembled! 4.gif


Edited by mpsteidle, 17 June 2021 - 03:27 PM.

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#164 GoodAsh

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 06:39 AM

Where are the legs! I am dying to see this thing assembled! 4.gif


Me too Johann! I want to see what I was too lazy to drive to Pittsburgh for! Hahaha

Al
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#165 AstroKerr

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 10:05 AM

Look, here's a pound note for each of you - scurry off to the Confectioner's and have a treat and let the man work, will you? Good lads!



#166 starman876

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 03:03 PM

Where are the legs!  I am dying to see this thing assembled! 4.gif

Working on it.  Just been busy and have not been able to break free to drop them off to have them stripped. 



#167 starman876

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 03:04 PM

Look, here's a pound note for each of you - scurry off to the Confectioner's and have a treat and let the man work, will you? Good lads!

you are such a good guy.waytogo.gif



#168 starman876

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Posted 22 June 2021 - 04:24 PM

going to drop the legs off this week.


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#169 mpsteidle

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Posted 23 June 2021 - 08:43 AM

going to drop the legs off this week.

bow.gif



#170 oldscope

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 12:21 PM

eyepieces. Maybe someone can identify them? They have no markings on them
 
attachicon.gifmogey eyepieces.jpg


That's a nice set of Brashear eyepieces you have there. Happy to buy them if you want to sell them! LOL

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#171 oldscope

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 12:33 PM

I picked up a very old Mogey mount.  early 1900's late 1800's.  It came with a 3.5" refractor.  Not so sure the OTA is Mogey.  The OTA has a wood tube.  Very nicely made.  There are no markings on the OTA.   Anyone know which manufacturer used wood tubes?  Rumors are Clark did.  However, I doubt the OTA is Clark.


Makers of wood tubes in the U.S. during that period:
Henry Fitz until 1863 (died)
John Byrne, his apprentice, until the mid-1870's, then switched to brass
Alvan Clark & Sons, in the early years. I think he switched to brass by the 1870's.
Spencer, NY ... not sure when they stopped
Tolles, NY
possibly Henry Giles "Harry" Fitz, early on. The finder on an 1890's OTA was a tapered wood tube of 3" aperture, but he might have used old stock.

Bart F.
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#172 oldscope

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 12:42 PM

Mogey certainly made a 3.5" refractor. In the ad I did notice that the finder looked strangely large at the objective for an old scope. Perhaps when you remove the paint you'll find the makers name on the back of the focuser, the cell, or on the knob. That said, I believe there's still a good chance the OTA is a Mogey. Whatever it turns out to be, I still think it was a wise purchase.


You can rule out Mogey with 100% certanty (for the OTA). They didn't make a single wood tube telescope because they didn't start making complete telescopes until they bought out William T. Gregg in 1882. Before that, all they did was supply lenses starting in 1878. They were, by profession, brass polishers, too, until getting into the instrument business. So, no wood tubes.


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#173 oldscope

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 12:56 PM

To answer your color question take a look at the first photo in my previous post (#30). I haven't done any forensic evaluations of my Mogey to see whether there are earlier paint layers under it or not but it sure has a copper/gold tint. The first layer of paint on yours was probably a red-lead (less commonly white-lead) primer, followed by the topcoat. Always be careful when doing any sanding because the earlier paints are most likely lead-based.
 
The "Bayonne" raised lettering (I overlooked your post #23 mentioning that when I showed some of the alternatively-labelled mounts) does narrow the date range from 1893 to 1911 or so. The firm was located in New York City at least until the very beginning of 1893, since my Mogey catalog of telescopes and photographic lenses dated January 1893 has a printed NYC street address with "BAYONNE, N.J." rubber stamped over it on the inside. About half of the 32 page catalog listed various photographic lenses. I also have a 16 pg. tiny (~3 x 5") format November 1890 Mogey telescope catalog that mentions a separate lens catalog. Clearly they hadn't just started in business. That catalog describes their telescopes as having "highly finished brass tubes". They seemed willing to supply components, and listed and priced their tube assemblies, objectives, eyepieces and mountings separately as well as in complete kits.
 
--Ken


LOL! Because they started out as professional brass polishers, it's no doubt that their brass tubes would be "highly finished"! Their 'second' business was optics (not complete telescopes) for telescope makers and camera manufacturers of which there were very many in NYC during that period. So the concept of selling components was not foreign to them. I suspect that they were the source for many of the nearly or identical but unmarked mounts, but we may never know.

Bart F.
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#174 oldscope

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 01:05 PM

The more I look at the OTA I can see that it is glued together.  There are two halves.  Interesting way to make a tube.  It appears that the three baffles in the tube are wood also.   Does this help at all.    Also, near the end of the tube I now see where there were three holes where square flat nuts used to reside.  The flat nuts I am sure where original to the tube as that is how the lens cell attaches to the front of the tube with flat nuts and small bolts.   Talking about lens cell.   I take it the knurled ring on the front of the cell is what comes loose to take the lenses out.   Looking at the back of the lens cell I see another knurled ring that can only be reached when you take the lens cell appart.  Does this sound familiar to anyone?


As of the date of the May 14th post, here is what you can take to the bank:

The mount was made by Mogey long after the OTA was produced.
The OTA was not made by Mogey.
The OTA was not made by Henry Fitz, because they had a different construction of their wood tubes. Four sections, not two halves. I think that might also rule out John Byrne, Fitz' protege, who made only a few wood tubes and I think may have even bought the tubes from Harry Fitz.
The finder was made later than the rest of the telescope. Aluminum wasn't used much until after WWII. I think it's an ATM job by someone who was a real observer. They understood the idea of low power, wide field for a finder.

Bart F.

Edited by oldscope, 08 July 2021 - 01:05 PM.

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#175 oldscope

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 01:21 PM

I was in the process is making a slow motion control from brass rod, a wood handle and a small universal joint. while looking for something else I found this old control I had forgotten about.  The question I have is?  does it look like an antique or is it an fake?  It is wood and brass.
 
attachicon.gifslow motion.JPG


You will find this style of slow motion handle on many English telescopes. Not on American telescopes, though.

Bart F.


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