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Using the Built in DSLR Noise Reduction

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#1 Serial

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 07:57 AM

Anyone ever try using the on board noise reduction of your DSLR instead of of manual dark frames?  I know capturing would take twice as long but it seems like the noise reduction would be more accurate as each light frame would have a perfectly temperature aligned noise subtraction.  



#2 michael8554

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 08:02 AM

Swings and Roundabouts:

 

Your target may go out of view before you've got many exposures.

 

Does give  temperature-matched Dark subtraction.

 

With Canon DSLR's they do some subtle noise reduction on the Raws, so many people ditch Darks and use the Bias subs as Darks.

 

But you must Dither too.


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#3 DubbelDerp

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 08:06 AM

There are a few people on here that do it, and it seems to work pretty well given the loss in imaging time. However, I've been playing around with dark scaling and it works surprisingly effectively even with fairly significant changes in exposure time and temperature. It requires the addition of a master bias to your calibration files, but most people have that anyways. When I can use the same set of 30 darks for a few months at a time... pick your pain!


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#4 brlasy1

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 10:02 AM

Anyone ever try using the on board noise reduction of your DSLR instead of of manual dark frames?  I know capturing would take twice as long but it seems like the noise reduction would be more accurate as each light frame would have a perfectly temperature aligned noise subtraction.  

There have been several recent threads on this, with a range of opinions.  Search the term "LENR"  (stands for long exposure noise reduction) and you'll get a lot of hits.


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#5 jgraham

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 10:29 AM

+1

 

A search should produce several lengthy discussions.

 

I have been using it for the past 8 years or so. Luv it.

 

My suggestion is to give it a try. If you like it, great! If not, at least you tried.

 

Enjoy!


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#6 B 26354

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 12:40 AM

I have temperature fluctuations of anywhere from twenty to thirty degrees F between 9pm and 4am, year round... so I always use LENR, and have been for the past five years. Some people complain about the amount of time it uses up... but I always do visual observation with my C8 or my big binocs while one of my two other scopes is taking photos... so who cares how long it takes?  grin.gif

 

I'm with jgraham on this one. Give it a try.  waytogo.gif


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#7 Domtbol

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 01:02 PM

I have tried it out (in the garage ) using a Nikon 5300 and Asiair Pro , I go into the Nikon menu and enable it and then connect the usb to the AAP, then take a photo but when I go back to the Nikon menu LENR is turned off !!!



#8 T~Stew

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Posted 26 May 2021 - 01:44 AM

Anyone ever try using the on board noise reduction of your DSLR instead of of manual dark frames?  I know capturing would take twice as long but it seems like the noise reduction would be more accurate as each light frame would have a perfectly temperature aligned noise subtraction.  

Some cameras will allow multiple light frames before it takes a dark, so you don't loose 50% of your time. Iirc my 6D would allow me 3 lights then it'd take a dark, so you're only missing out on 25%. You didn't mention what camera you were using.



#9 unimatrix0

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Posted 26 May 2021 - 09:24 AM

When I started imaging the sky (last December), I forgot to turn off that feature on my Pentax K70. I couldn't tell what was happening, the camera seemed like it has turned itself off, but it was just taking a dark frame and was also doing the processing. A bit confusing, considering that camera has a very bad battery life, so I must have ruined a bunch of really good subs by starting to mess with it trying to figure out what was happening. 
 It works exceptionally well for that camera, compared to my old Canon 60D which is an older chip and needs more handicap so that benefits more from darks taken separately. (In my experience). 
 



#10 Serial

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 07:44 AM

Some cameras will allow multiple light frames before it takes a dark, so you don't loose 50% of your time. Iirc my 6D would allow me 3 lights then it'd take a dark, so you're only missing out on 25%. You didn't mention what camera you were using.

It's a Nikon D3300. 



#11 Kevin_A

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 03:03 PM

I will use LENR with my nikons for single widefield milkyway shots and sometimes in very hot weather if i think i can get enough subs in the night... and never use it when it gets very cold outside as the noise is much lower in cold temps and never noticed too much difference then or when I dont have very long shooting a specific target I just shoot more subs to get more signal. I shoot with many Nikons and use it mostly on my similar D5300 camera as it has a bit more noise than my Z Series cameras. 


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#12 Thomas A Davis

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 04:59 PM

It is the only way I work with the Canon DSLRs I've owned.  I usually start an exposure series and go back inside the house when I do it.  I find I like the results better letting the Canon software take care of the darks.  I tried other ways, but have found the lost exposure time actually saves me time in processing, since the darks used match the exposure taken for temperature.  I feel I get a cleaner image as a result.  I've never seen a stray pixel in any of my images using it.

 

Still whatever works best for the individual.

 

Tom


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#13 Srvv

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 05:52 PM

Interesting. I'd always read that it was important to not use LENR, which is why I bought a used Fujifilm X-T10 for astro imaging. I have a digital Leica CL that can't have LENR turned off, and it's max long exposure is 30 seconds, so I pretty much only use it for travel photography. Maybe I'll experiment with that camera (though I have to say that I'm a fan of my little Fuji camera).

 

Santiago



#14 Kevin_A

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 07:05 PM

Interesting. I'd always read that it was important to not use LENR, which is why I bought a used Fujifilm X-T10 for astro imaging. I have a digital Leica CL that can't have LENR turned off, and it's max long exposure is 30 seconds, so I pretty much only use it for travel photography. Maybe I'll experiment with that camera (though I have to say that I'm a fan of my little Fuji camera).

 

Santiago

It does a better job of noise reduction/hot pixel fixing due to matching the sensor temp perfectly but takes away 50% of your imaging time with Nikon cameras.... no so though with Canons. Most people prefer getting more subs.... but some love LENR... to each is own.


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#15 giannone

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Posted 04 June 2021 - 03:06 PM

Some cameras will allow multiple light frames before it takes a dark, so you don't loose 50% of your time. Iirc my 6D would allow me 3 lights then it'd take a dark, so you're only missing out on 25%. You didn't mention what camera you were using.

What exactly is the setting to do this? I know you need to enable both JPEG and RAW, is that right? But I don't know where to set this up in the Menu.



#16 B 26354

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Posted 04 June 2021 - 09:45 PM

What exactly is the setting to do this? I know you need to enable both JPEG and RAW, is that right? But I don't know where to set this up in the Menu.

I'd imagine that it's called different names, and that it's in different places in the menuing system, depending on what camera you're using. In my Olympus, it's just called Noise Reduction, and it's in the Custom Settings menu. Look for it in the index of your camera's user manual... or tell us what camera you're using, and someone will chime in..

 

And it works in RAW, and JPEG, and RAW + JPEG. I only shoot RAW.

 

grin.gif



#17 T~Stew

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Posted 04 June 2021 - 10:15 PM

What exactly is the setting to do this? I know you need to enable both JPEG and RAW, is that right? But I don't know where to set this up in the Menu.

In the Canon 6D, Long Exposure Noise Reduction is in the 4th tab in the menu. This will be different for many cameras, but you quoted me so I assume you have the same? The ability to shoot multiple 'lights' is built in, nothing to enable, just continue to shoot your lights. The camera may try to start its dark once you finish the first light, but as soon as the shutter is activated again it cancels the dark and shoots another light. After the 3rd light frame it forces the dark frame, pressing the shutter simply gets ignored.

 

I have not used LENR since switching to acquisition software, as the software controls the shooting and would mess this up, especially with dithering for example.



#18 donsinger

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 07:22 PM

+1

 

A search should produce several lengthy discussions.

 

I have been using it for the past 8 years or so. Luv it.

 

My suggestion is to give it a try. If you like it, great! If not, at least you tried.

 

Enjoy!

But how can LENR work with Dithering? Or, can it?


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#19 galacticinsomnia

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 11:14 PM

But how can LENR work with Dithering? Or, can it?

1) LENR adds time to each exposure, Dithering does the same, the answer to that question will it work, will depend on your use and your software. 
A try and see approach is recommend.

2) If you are using LENR, Dithering would still be helpful for any issues that were not resolved by LENR. 

I don't use LENR, have started using More exposures at Higher ISO for less time and getting a better to SNR.  Also using dithering allows me to not always use calibration frames, etc etc.

Some use LENR, but they are far less that others.  It can serve specific purposes but it really depends on the whole user experience and what they want or require.

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