49 replies to this topic

[calypsob]

The other night I started having a ton of issues with my ASI AIR PRO and Celestron CGE Classic.

I am using the most recent USB based nexstar + HC and the most recent motor firmware. I have used this configuration many times with ASI AIR PRO since February 2021 without a single issue.

In fact I used this configuration so much that I finally trusted it would not fail me at a darksite and cost me a precious imaging session, which I barely have time for these days.

 

I got out there, setup and started imaging. I tried doing a Goto to the Lagoon Nebula first. The goto started slewing and could not complete a solve on M8.

I looked at the HC which said No Response 17. I hit back and it continued attempting to solve.

It could not solve M8 and continued throwing this error. I took at test shot and m8 was pretty much centered so I started to image and got maybe 6 subs and then it was time to meridian flip. The mount did a flip and tried a solve.

Again I got the no response 17 error. I tried going to another target and again got the no response 17 error.

I looked up this error on my phone and found it could be a multitude of reasons so I tried unplugging the asi air pro to see if the issue continued.

With no asi air pro connected, I no longer had the No Response 17 error appear.

I did several gotos and confirmed that the mount on its own was fine. So I am now puzzled.

Why would the ASI AIR PRO all of the sudden be giving me these issues, assuming it is the AAP?

 

I am currently testing the mount in my basement and I am getting the same issues. Another thing I have noted is that when I home the mount using AAP it slews in RA until it hits them limiter stop. I tried updating to the new version of AAP on my iphone to see if that would help, unfortunately I am getting the same results. With no AAP connected, the mount behaves fine.

 

At this point I am not sure if the AAP is at fault or if maybe the HC is not working right.  Does anyone know if there are any known issues with the most recent nexstar hc firmware for a CGE? 

[Medic002]

I was getting same issues with a ns 8 gps with skyfi 3 wifi setup. u could try bypassing all that and hard wire into the hand control and skip the wifi. it has something to do with the communication between the wifi and scope or something like that or could be difference in the time stamp of the scope and your phone. i don't know much more about the issue anymore since i don't use the skyfi anymore and just direct interface with cables now.

[RTLR 12]

No response 17 message means that the Hand controller is not communicating with the mount. The problem could be a supply voltage problem or the Hand controller itself or a connection problem to the mount or a MC board problem. Check your power supply. Try plugging the HC into an aux port or try another hand controller. The RJ connector on the HC cable may be the problem.

Stan

[calypsob]

No response 17 message means that the Hand controller is not communicating with the mount. The problem could be a supply voltage problem or the Hand controller itself or a connection problem to the mount or a MC board problem. Check your power supply. Try plugging the HC into an aux port or try another hand controller. The RJ connector on the HC cable may be the problem.

Stan

I have tried 2 HC's.  With Asi Air in control I get the error. With nothing connected I get no error.  I never had a single issue with ASI AIR and the CGE until this weekend.  

[Michael_Swanson]

Hi Wes,

 

Are you powering the mount through the ASIAIR PRO?  One of the common reasons for "no response 16/17" errors is low power, especially on the bigger mounts like the CGE.  And the older mounts like the CGE are very sensitive to both voltage and amperage. 

 

You may have added one component too many to your setup or the power distribution system in the ASIAIR PRO may have degraded just enough to result in a low power situation.  The input power source to the ASIAIR PRO may also be contributing to the problem.

 

If that is not the case, can you provide a complete description of how everything is connected when you use the ASIAIR PRO?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

Edited by Michael_Swanson, 08 June 2021 - 01:18 AM.

[calypsob]

Hi Wes,

Are you powering the mount through the ASIAIR PRO? One of the common reasons for "no response 16/17" errors is low power, especially on the bigger mounts like the CGE. And the older mounts like the CGE are very sensitive to both voltage and amperage.

You may have added one component too many to your setup or the power distribution system in the ASIAIR PRO may have degraded just enough to result in a low power situation. The input power source to the ASIAIR PRO may also be contributing to the problem.

If that is not the case, can you provide a complete description of how everything is connected when you use the ASIAIR PRO?

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

Thanks for the input Mike.
I had the cge powered on its own outlet directly to my 110ah 12v deepcycle. The AAP also runs on its own independent power cable. They have their own ring terminsl connections coming off the battery. I have an ASI 2600mc that is powered by the AAP and also an EAF powered by the AAP 12v outputs.
I had never thought to try running the mount on it as well.

I setup again at home using AC power on each device snd unfortunately continued to have the issues.

So Ive tried 2 nexstar plus controllers. Both worked fine with AAP for several months and now fail with the no response 17 error. When I use the HC by itself, I get no error.

I have tried 2 power sources.

I have updated AAP via ios to the most recent version, this did not help.

I have not tried- factory resetting the HC
Reloading the HC firmware
Reloading the motor firmware

Im hoping one of those will help, if it did I would be utterly mystified.

Can you think of any other approaches?

[Michael_Swanson]

Hi Wes,

 

Can you provide a diagram or at least a description of how everything is connected?  Have you contacted ZWO to ask them what they think?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

[calypsob]

Hi Wes,

Can you provide a diagram or at least a description of how everything is connected? Have you contacted ZWO to ask them what they think?

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

Sure I’ll whip one up later on.

Yes I have a running thread on the zwo forum

[calypsob]

I think I have solved the problem but I will still share my simple setup diagram so it was not a complete waste of 120 seconds.

 

After looking more closely into the Asi Air Pro Instructions I realized that I had not been turning off daylight savings and I had not been doing an alignment after I had received the newer usb based nexstar plus controller.

ASI AIR PRO requires you to do an alignment before using the device to do a goto.  I think this is because the mount identifies some attribute about what direction it is starting in, Im really not sure.  Typically I click last alignment on the HC. Since the AAP is plate solving you can just even go through the motions on a 2 star alignment and not even be on the star, just be on the correct side of the sky.  I believe that since I did not configure my new HC in a 2 star align and used last align it was sending odd commands to the mount.  This does not explain why switching back to the old HC repeated the error 17. 

 

My skies are not clear tonight so my test is not entirely accurate because I cannot plate solve on an object, this is where I started seeing the issue crop up last time and then after that I had the error 17 no matter what I did even into the next day of testing.  Now at least I am not seeing the issue at all.  I am just executing random goto's and cancelling them when the AAP attempts a plate solve.  I can also home the mount without any issue.

If the skies clear up I will resume testing but for now things are looking alot better.

 

Edited by calypsob, 10 June 2021 - 10:20 PM.

[mlord]

What I have observed recently, is that the USB Nexstar+ hand-controller does not report "position" information (ALT/AZ on my Evo mount) unless it has done an alignment first.

 

The StarSense hand-controller reports "position" regardless.

 

Cheers

[calypsob]

What I have observed recently, is that the USB Nexstar+ hand-controller does not report "position" information (ALT/AZ on my Evo mount) unless it has done an alignment first.

 

The StarSense hand-controller reports "position" regardless.

 

Cheers

Are you serious? I of course sold my star sense and bought a new nexstar + hc with the usb port. You are exactly right about loading a last alignment. 
 

Edit: I was about to go on a rant about this error but luckily I first read a really old thread on this issue from 2007. They guy suggested trying the aux ports on the cge instead of the hc port. I had no idea the aux ports even work with an Hc until now. 
I looked in my main hc port and I guess years of dew humidity and low voltage to the hc formed a layer of corrosion. The new hc so far seems to be doing fine in an aux port.

 

I actually have the Gary Bennet hc conversion kit but have not taken on the task to convert it. I guess this might justify the work.

 

on a side note I wonder why the heck I cant just use the pc port? It does not work at all with the aap, it slso did not work with a pc and cpwi.

[calypsob]

Wrong I am again!! The mount is back to throwing 16 and 17 errors.  My ports and plug are all clean as a whistle now too.

 

This is really frustrating. The Asi Air worked fine for several sessions with my CGE. Now it is throwing this error 16 and 17 each time I try and slew.

 

It is not a power issue, the cable is 16 gauge and about 10 feet long, powered by a 10 amp psu.  It uses a 2 pin Gary Bennett aviation connector

 

I am currently testing the mount with my laptop hooked up using Nex Remote. It works fine, no issues what so ever.

I also spent time testing CPWI through the usb port on the nexstar + controller, again no issues what so ever.

 

 

I would really appreciate some trouble shooting ideas.  I tried a factory reset earlier outside. that did not help either.

[calypsob]

Hi Wes,

 

Can you provide a diagram or at least a description of how everything is connected?  Have you contacted ZWO to ask them what they think?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

Mike, I think I may be one of the only people using a CGE classic with the Asi Air unit.  Is there anything else I can do here that Im not thinking of.  I get no errors on the mount until I connect the asi air up via usb.  As soon as I issue a goto in the asi air ap the Celestron throws either an error 16 or 17. When I do the same thing with CPWI or Nexremote on my laptop, the mount slews just fine.

[Michael_Swanson]

It sounds like something is simply incompatible although I can't see how connecting the ASI Air to the USB port on the hand control would cause "no response" errors.

 

Wait - here is a thought (and sorry if someone already mentioned this above - pressed for time and don't have time to read everything up there):  does the error go away if you power the ASI Air from a completely separate power source from the mount?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

[calypsob]

It sounds like something is simply incompatible although I can't see how connecting the ASI Air to the USB port on the hand control would cause "no response" errors.

 

Wait - here is a thought (and sorry if someone already mentioned this above - pressed for time and don't have time to read everything up there):  does the error go away if you power the ASI Air from a completely separate power source from the mount?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

The asi air has a completely separate power source from the cge. What gets me is that the asi air controlled the cge without a hitch the first few times I used it.

[mlord]

So weird.  I don't know anything about ASI Air -- their website doesn't even open with a simple "this device does what for you" description.  But reading for an hour will probably reveal its purpose to me.

 

What I do see, is that the ASI Air Pro looks like it is a repackaged RaspberryPi 4B board, with some extra power jacks or something.  The RaspberryPi stuff is notoriously fussy about power.  It wants a LOT of clean stable power to behave predictably.  In this case that would mean a decent quality AC-powered adapter with at least 6-Amp output, possibly more?

 

So.. maybe the completely separate +12V power source being used here now has developed "issues" ?

Edited by mlord, 09 February 2022 - 09:25 AM.

[mlord]

I'm sure this is already known, but the AAP website says this:

 

Note：ASIAIR PRO’s or ASIAIR Plus’s USB power supply is not enough for ASI6200/ASI2600/ASI533//ASI071MC cameras to work normally, so please use an external 12V power supply, which can be connected to the ASIAIR PRO’s power management as well.

[mlord]

From reading the user manual, it appears that ASIAIR products support direct mount connections via TCP/IP (networking).  So as an alternative to the USB-Hand-controller connection, one could use WiFi, ethernet, or bluetooth directly to the mount (or a device plugged into an AUX port of the mount).  This would completely sidestep any hand-controller issues.

[calypsob]

So weird.  I don't know anything about ASI Air -- their website doesn't even open with a simple "this device does what for you" description.  But reading for an hour will probably reveal its purpose to me.

 

What I do see, is that the ASI Air Pro looks like it is a repackaged RaspberryPi 4B board, with some extra power jacks or something.  The RaspberryPi stuff is notoriously fussy about power.  It wants a LOT of clean stable power to behave predictably.  In this case that would mean a decent quality AC-powered adapter with at least 6-Amp output, possibly more?

 

So.. maybe the completely separate +12V power source being used here now has developed "issues" ?

Its a nice power supply Id be surprised but I can always check and use another. The asi air plus is an rpi4 with its own os and ios/android ap used to control everything. It has 4 12v outputs and 4 usb ports. I power only the camera and eaf focuser from the onboard 12v.

A usb cable goes from the asi air plus to the nexstar plus to send goto info. It worked fine when I first used the setup, but I must have updated something or changed some configuration. Im pulling my hair out over this one issue, its truly a game changing tool when this is not occurring it fully automates my workflows and lets me stay warm in full control from my phone inside the house.

[calypsob]

From reading the user manual, it appears that ASIAIR products support direct mount connections via TCP/IP (networking).  So as an alternative to the USB-Hand-controller connection, one could use WiFi, ethernet, or bluetooth directly to the mount (or a device plugged into an AUX port of the mount).  This would completely sidestep any hand-controller issues.

Thats something I had not considered.. does the cge only support the celestron wifi dongle?

[mlord]

Celestron's site lists the WiFi adapter as an accessory for CGE Pro.

[Michael_Swanson]

I don't think the Celestron SkyPortal WiFi module can be used for this purpose since the system connecting to that module must perform the initial alignment process, not just send GoTo requests. 

 

The ASIAIR can probably use a WiFi module that connects to the port on the bottom of the hand control.  The alignment must still be performed with the hand control.

 

That said, I still can only envision this being a power problem - for example, a noisy device producing "ground loop" noise.  Try running either the ASIAIR or the mount powered via a battery power pack - in other words, get one of them off of AC as another troubleshooting attempt.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

[calypsob]

Ok I’ll run one on a deep cycle after work.

[mlord]

I don't think the Celestron SkyPortal WiFi module can be used for this purpose since the system connecting to that module must perform the initial alignment process, not just send GoTo requests.

The AISAIR documentation says it can connect via a Celstron WiFi adapter.
That's all I know about it.

[calypsob]

I don't think the Celestron SkyPortal WiFi module can be used for this purpose since the system connecting to that module must perform the initial alignment process, not just send GoTo requests. 

 

The ASIAIR can probably use a WiFi module that connects to the port on the bottom of the hand control.  The alignment must still be performed with the hand control.

 

That said, I still can only envision this being a power problem - for example, a noisy device producing "ground loop" noise.  Try running either the ASIAIR or the mount powered via a battery power pack - in other words, get one of them off of AC as another troubleshooting attempt.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
https://www.NexStarSite.com

Unfortunately the battery idea generated the same results. Its strange because despite the HC displaying no response 17, the got commands continues to execute. It does not become a problem until a plate solve occurs to center the target. the fine movement times out and the mount truly does not respond.  I re tried using nexremote and cpwi tonight. Both work fine, but as soon as I issue a single command from the asi air the HC starts having issues with no response 16 and 17. 

 

On a side note, because my nexstar + is usb, when I turn off the mount the Asi Air keeps the HC on, very dimmly but the HC does not power off until I unplug it. 

I tried the old non usb based HC just for kicks and it turns off when the mount turns off, but unfortunately it gives the same no response errors if I issue a command form the asi air.