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Mewlon 210 - Step up from a 152mm AP APO? - visual....

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#1 Cotts

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 03:19 PM

 My back, knees and hips want me to switch up from a 6-inch f/8 refractor (1988 AP).....for the much improved seating ergonomics of a MakCass or a DK-Cass. 

 

I wouldn't want to go any smaller than 180mm nor any larger than 250mm aperture...

 

Scope will be used for visual and video lucky imaging of double stars.....as a complement to a 20-inch Dob arriving this fall.  I can mount the new scope on an EQ6 or on a Discmount DM6 as the need arises...

 

Hoping to find something on the used market...

 

So, TAK Mewlon 180? 210? 250?   Maybe the CN 212 'convertible' Cass/Newt?

TEC Maks are rare but come in 180mm and 200mm sizes....

INTES Maks also are rare but do come up from time to time....

 

Can an 8-inch Vixen VMC or an 8-in Celestron EDGE  be a reasonable alternative QUALITY-wise?

 

Any recommendations?  Caveats?  My initial feelings are leaning towards a Mewlon 210....Aperture, quality, portability, ergonomics....

 

Dave


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#2 junomike

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 03:48 PM

popcorn.gif


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#3 The Ardent

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 03:55 PM

https://www.cloudyni...640-mewlon-210/


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#4 Cotts

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 04:04 PM

popcorn.gif

Move over! popcorn.gifpopcorn.gif   Got any beer?

 

Dave
 


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#5 Reid W

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 04:58 PM

There's no way I could comment on the AP152.

 

I'll say this though-

 

I thought I had a good C11 until the 210 arrived.  Better contrast, tighter stars in the Tak.  Certainly fainter stars in the 11.

 

You'll see comments that the 210 is more sensitive to cooling/seeing.  I don't think its anymore sensitive than other compound scopes....could be the optic is better figured and user is more inclined to push the mag.  

 

With a 28mm 68°, I found PNs to be more pronounced.  Again, compared to the C11, stars tighter, better contrast makes the PNs (galaxies too) pop.


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#6 Richard O'Neill

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 05:04 PM

Hello Dave,

 

  You might want to consider this. https://www.cloudyni...-classic-7-mak/

 

I know it has a massive weight inside for balance that is slow to achieve thermal equilibrium but that doesn't present a problem if you properly insulate the tube.

 

Richard


Edited by Richard O'Neill, 13 June 2021 - 05:05 PM.

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#7 macdonjh

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 05:07 PM

Cotts,

 

The Takahashi CN-212 is no longer in production, at least as far as I know.  Too bad, too.

 

The Mewlon 210 punches above its weight class in my opinion.  I don't own one, but a friend does.  I liked the view through the Mewlon better than that through a C9.25 on the same night.  I might have traded the C11 I was using at the time for the M210...

 

I think the M250 are pretty heavy, but again, I don't know for sure.  Electric secondary focusing and other bells and whistles.  Pretty big premium for 2" of additional aperture.

 

I think CFF makes a 200mm classical Cassegrain.  I really like my 350mm CFF.  Something easy to get would be a C8 EDGE.  If you did lucky imaging on your EQ-6 and visual with your DiscMounts, an 8" Newtonian with a good mirror is another option.  Though you may prefer the focal length of a Cassegrain variant for your imaging.  Also at the non-premium end there is a long Cloudy Nights thread about the GSO classical Cassegrains (6" and 8").  Perhaps there are now some user reactions posted since they have finally been delivered to these shores.



#8 macdonjh

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 05:08 PM

Hello Dave,

 

  You might want to consider this. https://www.cloudyni...-classic-7-mak/

 

I know it has a massive weight inside for balance that is slow to achieve thermal equilibrium but that doesn't present a problem if you properly insulate the tube.

 

Richard

In addition, I think there are how-to videos about removing that weight as well.



#9 ABQJeff

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 05:17 PM

Insulated/wrapped C9.25 Edge (to get you a little more aperture than the 8" to account for the CO) and it will still be much lighter than a 150mm APO, or a C11 EdgeHD.


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#10 The Ardent

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 05:37 PM

Ten years ago I sold a Tec 200 Mak and a Parallax 8” DK to buyers in Canada. I’ve done my part already. 



#11 Auburn80

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 06:58 PM

My back, knees and hips want me to switch up from a 6-inch f/8 refractor (1988 AP).....for the much improved seating ergonomics of a MakCass or a DK-Cass.

I wouldn't want to go any smaller than 180mm nor any larger than 250mm aperture...

Scope will be used for visual and video lucky imaging of double stars.....as a complement to a 20-inch Dob arriving this fall. I can mount the new scope on an EQ6 or on a Discmount DM6 as the need arises...

Hoping to find something on the used market...

So, TAK Mewlon 180? 210? 250? Maybe the CN 212 'convertible' Cass/Newt?
TEC Maks are rare but come in 180mm and 200mm sizes....
INTES Maks also are rare but do come up from time to time....

Can an 8-inch Vixen VMC or an 8-in Celestron EDGE be a reasonable alternative QUALITY-wise?

Any recommendations? Caveats? My initial feelings are leaning towards a Mewlon 210....Aperture, quality, portability, ergonomics....

Dave

Personal opinion having a Mewlon 180 and having owned an EDF155 as well as owning a variety of scts . . .

The Mewlon 210

I chose the 180 for myself for its quality, portability, and it doesn't dew up easily.

Just remember it's a folded optic design so take care with acclimation and collimation.

Edited by Auburn80, 13 June 2021 - 07:01 PM.

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#12 lwbehney

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 08:17 PM

Hello Dave,

 

Allow me to share my experience comparing a Mewlon 180 and a Mewlon 210. I have owned both of these and now own a Mewlon 210. I think the µ180c is the way to go for you. I base that on the fact that the Mewlon 210 is just enough heavier, that your back will thank you for getting the 180c. Since you are getting a 20 inch Dob, there is nothing special the 210 can do better than the 180c. What I miss about the 180c besides the lightness and greater ease of portability and compactness, is the fov. The 180c has a maximum tfov = 1.2º and the µ210 is limited to 0.9º.  Departing with your refractor is going to make you suddenly miss the wide fields. 

Optically the 180c has a smidgeon more contrast due to the smaller relative secondary obstruction and the f/12 optics vs f/11.5 of the µ210 and its always easier to make a better optic at a smaller aperture and of course the seeing is less harmful to the views. 

I was able to see galaxies with my 180c from my yard that I had not even been able to detect with my five inch refractor. I think you will find a 180c a  step up from your refractor in views of globular clusters and PN's due to the brightness factor and slight superiority in resolution.  I would still have the 180c except for one reason; the same reason Ed Ting gave up on his µ180. He found it to be a fussy telescope. He could not get it to remain in collimation and I had the same problem and then returned it. Maybe this is a weakness of a three vane spider design vs. the four vane spider of the µ210, although many people on CN's have been very happy with their baby Mewlons. 

If you get one that holds collimation, the 180c will be like having a compact 160 mm refractor in a light weight and compact form, which never requires a dew heater and has just enough tfov to cram in the Pleiades OC. The 6X30 built in finder of the 180c is a joy to use and extremely bright for its aperture. You will have pride in the beautiful color of this telescope and for the stark contrast only beaten by a refractor or perhaps an f/15 Maksutov. 

-Larry

 My back, knees and hips want me to switch up from a 6-inch f/8 refractor (1988 AP).....for the much improved seating ergonomics of a MakCass or a DK-Cass. 

 

I wouldn't want to go any smaller than 180mm nor any larger than 250mm aperture...

 

Scope will be used for visual and video lucky imaging of double stars.....as a complement to a 20-inch Dob arriving this fall.  I can mount the new scope on an EQ6 or on a Discmount DM6 as the need arises...

 

Hoping to find something on the used market...

 

So, TAK Mewlon 180? 210? 250?   Maybe the CN 212 'convertible' Cass/Newt?

TEC Maks are rare but come in 180mm and 200mm sizes....

INTES Maks also are rare but do come up from time to time....

 

Can an 8-inch Vixen VMC or an 8-in Celestron EDGE  be a reasonable alternative QUALITY-wise?

 

Any recommendations?  Caveats?  My initial feelings are leaning towards a Mewlon 210....Aperture, quality, portability, ergonomics....

 

Dave


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#13 Stopforths

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 08:18 PM

My 180 just arrived I got home and my 16 year old son had already opened the box bless him.

 

What a work of art noticeably lighter but about the same size as the 200m f12 gso cc.  sneaked a look at a chimney 300 metres away must be close to collimated it really snapped into focus at 120 x.

Using it on a lx65 mount and it will handle it I reakon.  The obstruction is 33% 60mm of 180.    I'm going to use a 1.25 inch diagonal with it mainly to keep weight down.

 

No chance of clear skies for weeks ...............


Edited by Stopforths, 13 June 2021 - 08:19 PM.

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#14 Cotts

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 09:36 PM

Excellent responses!

 

Thanks.

 

Dave



#15 luxo II

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 10:06 PM

Suggest avoid the Vixen VMC, it will disappoint you. Take your pick of the Mewlons, they're fine.


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#16 kevinmat

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Posted 13 June 2021 - 11:44 PM

I replaced a Mewlon 180C with a Vixen VC200L and am very happy that I did. The Mewlon is nicely made but the Vixen is equally so. The Mewlon needs the flattener whereas the Vixen supplies a flat field without one due to its design. It really depends what you are going to use them for, but for me the VC200L was a better fit. I agree on the VMC its a poorer performer.



#17 Nippon

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 05:38 AM

I read EdTing's issue with a Mewlon 180 not holding collimation. I've had my 180 over a year and have no issues with it holding collimation. The older Mewlon 250 had a three vane spider and I don't recall issues. Perhaps Ting's 180 and the poster's above had some mechanical issue causing the problem. Takahashi scopes have very good quality control but scopes with an issue can and do slip through.


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#18 bobhen

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 06:47 AM

I owned an Astro-Physics 155 F7 triple apo for many years. When it came time for me to downsize due to age and weight, I kind of went through the same process.

 

I ended up with a Tak TSA 120 refractor and a Mewlon 210. Both are less than 20 pounds and require much lighter mounts.

 

If, however, you are not necessarily looking for a lighter scope but just the better ergonomics of a compound Cassegrain, then I would suggest you get a Mewlon 250. Find one with fans. They are absolutely needed.

 

For any deep sky object that fit in its field, a Mewlon 250 will go deeper and show deep sky objects better than the 6” refractor. The refractor will of course have a wider field of view. If you have the seeing for the moon and planets, a Mewlon 250 will pull away from a 6” refractor when the seeing gets above average. When the seeing is average both scopes will be close in showing detail but the refractor will possibly have a calmer view and the Mewlon 250 will have a less calm view but might tease (frustratingly so) with glimpses of more detail.

 

A Mewlon 210 will just edge-out a 6” apo on most deep sky objects that fit in its field. On the planets it will be close but I would give the nod to the 6” apo on most nights and in all kinds of seeing. On the moon it will also be close but I would give the nod to the Mewlon 210, if the seeing is just above average or better. My Mewlon 210 is one of my favorite lunar scopes. An aftermarket focuser is nice to have for a Mewlon 210 to dial in exact focus when using high power. 

 

I can’t stress this enough. Without fans and in a cold climate, a Mewlon 210 will take a long time to acclimate. Not much of an issue for deep sky but it is for the moon and planets. My AP 155 F7 oil-spaced apo acclimated in 30-minutes in cold weather, a Mewlon 210 can take hours. If I could handle it, just that fact alone would have had me keep the AP 155.

 

Cooling was such an issue here in PA I added fans to my 210. They work great. But you will have to do a custom installation or come up with a different acclimation strategy for a Mewlon 210. Another reason to seek out a Mewlon 250.

 

No SCT has the contrast or the in-focus star images of a Mewlon. My Mewlon has remarkable contrast for a compound telescope and the stars, although not as tight as in my TSA 120 are tighter than in any of the SCTs I owned. If you go the SCT rout, a C11 Edge with TEMPest fans can be a satisfying telescope for less money, "if you can handle the weight".

 

If you go the Mak route, consider a 200mm for better performance than a 6” apo. But again, acclimation will be a big issue so insulation or fans or some other acclimation strategy will be needed.

 

Another though would be a 130 F6 apo from APM with LZOS optics: shorter, lighter, easer to acclimate, great optics, better ergonomics than the 6” F8 and all that apo goodness.

 

That’s my experience anyway.

 

Below is a picture of the fans I had Deep Space Products add to my Mewlon 210.

 

Bob

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#19 turtle86

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 06:57 AM

I read EdTing's issue with a Mewlon 180 not holding collimation. I've had my 180 over a year and have no issues with it holding collimation. The older Mewlon 250 had a three vane spider and I don't recall issues. Perhaps Ting's 180 and the poster's above had some mechanical issue causing the problem. Takahashi scopes have very good quality control but scopes with an issue can and do slip through.

 

Same here.  My Mewlon 180 arrived collimated and has stayed collimated.  It certainly holds collimation better than any of the SCT's I've ever owned.


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#20 Cotts

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 08:44 AM

I'm leaning towards a Mewlon 210 at this point..

 

I will have it in an observatory most of the time.  On clear nights I open the roof and uncover the scope after dinner when the shadow of the house covers it all...  2 hours later or more and it is dark...and the scope (C11 e.g. which I had for a while) is fully acclimated...

 

No rush, I can put up with the 6-inch for a while yet - I've got some imaging plans with my DSLR and with SharpCap and a new ASI 294 for some live-stacking...

 

Dave


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#21 vahe

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 09:18 AM

 

If you like, or shall I say hope to find a TEC, do visit tec-scopes@groups.io, you will have a better chance of finding one there than classifieds.

One recently showed up there and sold right away, see post #30299. Not many 180's were produced.

.

For seating ergonomics you are correct, weight wise they are about same as AP 6" refractors. Thermal acclimation is a non issue once you wrap the Mak with insulation.

.

Vahe



#22 Nippon

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 09:30 AM

Based on the performance of my Mewlon 180 if I had a permanent observatory set up and the funds I would get the Mewlon 250. If there were times I needed to transport and set up a scope at a remote site and did not have another more transportable scope I would think the 210 would be a better choice. 


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#23 Bill Barlow

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 10:46 AM

I have been considering the Mewlon 210 as well.  Can someone tell me how much this OTA weighs and how long is it?  I am getting a C11 soon so to me it would be hard for the 210 to compete with the 280 aperture for seeing fainter galaxies, planetary nebulae and resolving globulars with the extra 70 mm of aperture.  But I could be wrong here?  Do the spikes become an issue when splitting close double stars? 

 

Dave, it sounds like you have some very good options to eventually replace the AP 6” refractor.  The 210 and 250 Mewlon’s or anEdge 11 would be my choices.  Good luck with your decision.

 

Bill


Edited by Bill Barlow, 14 June 2021 - 10:49 AM.

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#24 Cotts

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 01:13 PM

The Mewlon 210 on AM has sold.  Not to me.

 

Dave


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#25 CHASLX200

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 07:16 PM

I used a 210 in my seeing and 600x was easy.  It was not easy on my wallet so i passed at the time. But they are much better than SCT's by a mile.


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