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Veil Nebula Complex

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#1 Emanuel

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 01:55 PM

Guys, i need your help. I made another try to an old photo of the Veil Complex. Well, not that old, its from last summer.

The problem is that im getting strange artifacts on the image, as you can see if you zoom on it.

 

I wonder what is causing this.

 

My workflow in Pixinsight is basically this: STF, Dynamic Crop ,SCNR, EZ script for Denoise, EZ script soft strech, Starnet, RGB channels splitting, Curves and LocalHistogramTransformation or UnsharpMask on each channel,and Channel Combination.

 

After this, i deal with the color, usually with Color Saturation feature, or with Photoshop, which, to be honest, as a better color control tools.

 

For the stars, after Starnet, i use the starmask created by the starnet, and apply the Deconvolution feature to decrease and sharp the stars and the Morphological Transformation tool, if it is a area with a lot of stars, like in this case. I also use the color saturation, to remove color from the stars and leave them with a more neutral look.

 

Finally, i combine the two images, by using the Pixelmath feature. Of course, during the processing, i used several masks to protect the areas that i didnt wanted affected.

And...i have this strange artifact.

 

The equipment used was the venerable Takahashi FSQ 106 ED, the modified NikonD5300 with the L-Enhance filter and the RST 135 mount.

Guided with PHD2, acquired by BackyardNikon and processed in Pixinsight and Photoshop for color control.

20X300" lights, Iso 400, and a set of 20 darks, 20 bias and 20 flats for calibration.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Veil-Nebula-Complex_low.jpg

Edited by Emanuel, 18 June 2021 - 01:56 PM.

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#2 Rocklobster

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Posted 19 June 2021 - 12:56 AM

Amazing detail, and certainly a million times better than anything I could achieve.

But I'd have to say that, for me, it's a bit too contrasty and looks over processed. Something I know is all too easy to do.

If I were you, I would soften and bring everything back a few notches.

The best way I can explain how it looks to me is that you pushed the "texture" and "clarity" sliders in Photoshop raw camera to 100.

Good work. It never ceases to amaze me, how many stars are up there.

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#3 Emanuel

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Posted 19 June 2021 - 02:26 AM

Thanks friend. I always tend to exagerate on my proccessing.
But youre probably right, i"ll give it another go and try to soften things.
Thank you 😊

#4 Rocklobster

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Posted 19 June 2021 - 11:23 PM

Thanks friend. I always tend to exagerate on my proccessing.
But youre probably right, i"ll give it another go and try to soften things.
Thank you

Mate, I do exactly the same thing..have a look at the difference between my first and last attempt at processing the same session. I just kept pushing and pushing and thought it was good till I realized it really wasn't. LOL

By the way, I'm in no way implying that your image is as awful as my first M31 attempt.

Looking forward to seeing your next attempt.

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Edited by Rocklobster, 19 June 2021 - 11:23 PM.

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#5 Rocklobster

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Posted 19 June 2021 - 11:26 PM

Oops forgot to attach images600e11b63f32de9c41c6b91a6ebcf8c7.jpg0cd2e20fff4c495ce4e27530d7c4b354.jpg

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#6 vidrazor

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 01:19 AM

Honestly, I don't know what on earth you're complaining about. What exactly are the "strange artifacts" you're seeing? I just compared your image a several online views, and your render is up there with the best of them. Your listed image here, which is rather low res, looks just fine. Your color may not match other renderings I saw, but that's a matter of taste. Don't know why you'd want to kill star color, but again, personal taste. Just for fun, I swung your file here over to some colors I was seeing online, and dropped your highlights down a bit. Again, personal taste.

 

Your image is more than fine. wink.gif

Attached Thumbnails

  • viel.jpg

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#7 Emanuel

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 01:44 AM

That looks very nice Vidrazor. The artifacts im talking about are the square pixels visible for example on the eastern veil nebula, but you have to zoom in a lot. Im guessing they were produced during the EZ script for denoise, but, like you said, maybe im beeing too picky about it.

Rocklobster, from your first try to the other image, there`s a huge difference. I can see that on my images, as everybody else, its all a question on learning skills and experience.

You know, i always search the web to see how people manage color on a certain target,  but at the end, like you guys said, its all a question of personal taste.

By the way, i normally decrease the color  of the stars, so the main object is more proeminent than the stars, and the same goes when using the morphological feature in Pixinsight, to decrease the number of visible stars.

smile.gif



#8 vidrazor

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 02:02 AM

That looks very nice Vidrazor. The artifacts im talking about are the square pixels visible for example on the eastern veil nebula, but you have to zoom in a lot. Im guessing they were produced during the EZ script for denoise, but, like you said, maybe im beeing too picky about it.

 

Hmm, well at this res you've posted here I don't see what you're referring to.
 


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#9 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 02:55 AM

 

By the way, i normally decrease the color  of the stars, so the main object is more proeminent than the stars, and the same goes when using the morphological feature in Pixinsight, to decrease the number of visible stars.

smile.gif

I agree with Vidrazor, the image is more then fine.

Except for the star color but using an L-Enhance filter you know you will loose the color.

You can try for workarounds like making two stacks , one with L-enhance  and treating as L and the make an OSC stack , register them that they ar alingned and process them. Tried this once in Startools and i could get some color back, i do say some...this is still a path that i have to investigate further...


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#10 Emanuel

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 05:20 AM

Thats a cool technique for getting back the color of the stars. Im trying to do the same at the point were you have the star mask made by Starnet. I think i can recover some of the color.

To show what artifacts im talking about, i made a huge crop on the Veil. Take a look. smile.gif

Attached Thumbnails

  • Veil-complex-detail.jpg


#11 vidrazor

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 08:30 AM

Thats a cool technique for getting back the color of the stars. Im trying to do the same at the point were you have the star mask made by Starnet. I think i can recover some of the color.

To show what artifacts im talking about, i made a huge crop on the Veil. Take a look. smile.gif

Are you getting that on your full res image? Might be a demosaicing error. Try different settings, or a different stacker and/or processor.
 


Edited by vidrazor, 20 June 2021 - 08:32 AM.

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#12 Emanuel

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 09:00 AM

Yes, im getting that on full resolution image. If its happening during the Ez script, i cannot control it, or can i?
Of course i can try proccessing on a different way.

#13 vidrazor

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Posted 20 June 2021 - 10:23 AM

Yes, im getting that on full resolution image. If its happening during the Ez script, i cannot control it, or can i?
Of course i can try proccessing on a different way.

I don't know PI, I work with Siril and Photoshop. Perhaps someone well acclimated with PI might know where the problem may lie. Looks like funky demosaicing to me.
 


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#14 Emanuel

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 02:23 PM

Hey guys, i made another try on the Veil Complex, step by step, and confirming were im having those artifacts.

Starnet is the one responsible for that. Just to let you guys know smile.gif



#15 asanmax

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 06:06 PM

Wonderful and colourful image! This is the first time I see a shattered heart in the image at that angle.


Edited by asanmax, 25 June 2021 - 06:06 PM.

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#16 vidrazor

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Posted 26 June 2021 - 08:15 AM

Hey guys, i made another try on the Veil Complex, step by step, and confirming were im having those artifacts.

Starnet is the one responsible for that. Just to let you guys know smile.gif

Glad you found the source of the anomaly. Not sure there's much in the way of processing parameters in Starnet, although I've never seen anything like that in my processes. I use the standalone Starnet, so how it's incorporated into the PI processing chain may have an affect.


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#17 Emanuel

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Posted 26 June 2021 - 03:18 PM

Thank you guys.

Yes, its Starnet the responsible for that. But its very strange, because i use it a lot, and i didnt noticed before undecided.gif



#18 vidrazor

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Posted 26 June 2021 - 03:44 PM

Thank you guys.

Yes, its Starnet the responsible for that. But its very strange, because i use it a lot, and i didnt noticed before undecided.gif

It must have something to do with how it incorporates with the PI processing chain. I would try pulling Starnet out of the chain and process the finished render in standalone Starnet and see if you get the same effect.
 


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#19 Emanuel

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Posted 27 June 2021 - 03:40 AM

Unfortunally i cannot run it as a standalone, because my laptop is old. I must update it before a can do that frown.gif




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