Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Which would be most concerning?

  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#1 ColoHank

ColoHank

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5,602
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2007
  • Loc: western Colorado

Posted 23 June 2021 - 04:18 PM

I fully expect that, when snippets of the the DoD report to congress on UAP/UFO activity are released to the public, they'll be heavily redacted.  Accordingly, we may never know what conclusions the DoD has reached concerning the identity or origins of the extraordinary craft bedeviling our military since at least 2005 or so.  Keep in mind that the Navy has already admitted that something is out there -- craft whose performance characteristics exceed anything with which our operational forces are familiar.

 

That said, if there were a more complete public disclosure of the DoD report, and disregarding the likelihood, for a moment, that the phenomena are a result of some super-secret US black ops program, which conclusion (and this is all completely hypothetical) do you folks believe would be more unsettling to We The People?

 

1)  The craft have been developed by a technologically adept rival power -- either Russia or China.

 

2)  The craft are of extra-terrestrial origins.

 

3)  The craft are operated by some highly evolved and heretofore unknown, non-human, native-Earth species which, for the most part, tries to avoid or evade human detection.

 

Which revelation would bother you the most?



#2 Barlowbill

Barlowbill

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Joined: 05 Apr 2018
  • Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma

Posted 23 June 2021 - 04:25 PM

#1

As to #s 2&3, why would they/it want to bother with backward folk like us?


  • Rickycardo and bobzeq25 like this

#3 fallenstarseven

fallenstarseven

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 25 Aug 2020
  • Loc: San Mateo, CA, USA

Posted 23 June 2021 - 04:37 PM

1, by a mile.   My concern is compounded by our very public betrayal that our military, or the broader part of it, has no idea what these things are.



#4 jimr2

jimr2

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 882
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Sparks, NV

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:18 PM

Yup, No. 1 by a kilometer....

 

(And think No. 2 is much more likely than No. 3....)



#5 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 25,024
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:21 PM

#1

As to #s 2&3, why would they/it want to bother with backward folk like us?

+1.  The idea that a spacefaring alien race would have any interest in us is just ridiculous arrogance.  Much less the idea that we'd have something they need.

 

Mostly I think these things are 4.  Bad observations of natural phenomema.  But conspiracy theories are all the rage these days.

 

Your number 1,2 AND 3 do not concern me.  Not one iota.  Number 1 assumes improbably advanced Earth based adversaries, who spend a fraction of what we do on advanced weapons systems.  Do people think they got lucky?  It's almost as unlikely as 2 and 3.

 

The thing I truly find most upsetting (and disheartening) these days is that a large number of people are willing to believe these crazy theories, while _simultaneously_ denying well established scientific facts, based on a mountain of solid data (rather than idiosyncratic ad hoc reports with no good data at all behind them), which they often think are ridiculously improbable conspiracies among the scientific community all across the world. Do they imagine scientists have a secret handshake?

 

Talk about the worst of all possible worlds.  That's the threat that will likely doom us.  Not some improbably competent and advanced Earth based adversaries.

 

Us.  Our denial of well established science.


Edited by bobzeq25, 23 June 2021 - 06:07 PM.

  • brave_ulysses, areyoukiddingme, Miguelo and 4 others like this

#6 Sleep Deprived

Sleep Deprived

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 650
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Seattle Area

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:33 PM

#1 would be most concerning to me, but I doubt this is it.  If one of our Earthly rivals is that technologically superior, it would have happened out of a vacuum.  Both Russia and China have been trying to 'keep up' with our tech for decades - I would think they would be glad to be 'even'.  Much of their cutting edge stuff has been their attempts at copying our stuff.

 

As for #3, I think that is extremely unlikely - if these co-habitants of Earth are trying to keep a low profile (and apparently they have until now), why would they threaten that by buzzing our military with their technologically superior (but clearly visible) things?

 

I am on the fence with ET being here and monitoring us, but given the 3 choices, I gotta think this is the most likely.

 

I have 2 more scenarios:

  1. They are our own (the USA, that is) stuff.  Some super-secret agency is testing/prodding our military and they get 'filmed' every once in a while.  Perhaps it is our own tech, decades (centuries?) in the future and there is some type of 'time travel' or 'dimensional shift' that we have discovered that makes these encounters possible.
  2. Although many of them don't appear to be so.... unusual natural phenomenon.  More complicated than swamp gas, but natural none-the-less. 

Just spit-balling, of course.  As always, YMMV.



#7 Ron359

Ron359

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,517
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2008

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:39 PM

None of the above...  Ocam's razor,  and all the (non) evidence says its all a hoax being played by some Navy pilots. They must be having a huge laugh over beers.  No. 1 would be concerning but its about as unlikely as aliens.  


  • Raul Leon and Avgvstvs like this

#8 TOMDEY

TOMDEY

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,961
  • Joined: 10 Feb 2014
  • Loc: Springwater, NY

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:41 PM

#4) That the politicians are just misinforming/trying to scare us again.

 

I simply don't buy the walking-in hypothesis; wouldn't lose a moment's sleep over any of them, because the evidence definitively points that they are all illusion. Note that the use of the word "craft" itself reflects severe confirmation bias on the part of observers and reporters.    Tom


  • Inkswitch, turtle86 and Haze like this

#9 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 25,024
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:43 PM

None of the above...  Ocam's razor,  and all the (non) evidence says its all a hoax being played by some Navy pilots. They must be having a huge laugh over beers.  No. 1 would be concerning but its about as unlikely as aliens.  

I think at least some of them (I'd say a large majority) mean well with their reports.  Based on my long interactions with a variety of people (older than dirt), I have a great deal of faith in those who serve.  They may be funloving, but they know how far to press a joke.


  • Miguelo likes this

#10 photoracer18

photoracer18

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,278
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Martinsburg, WV

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:51 PM

I fully expect that, when snippets of the the DoD report to congress on UAP/UFO activity are released to the public, they'll be heavily redacted.  Accordingly, we may never know what conclusions the DoD has reached concerning the identity or origins of the extraordinary craft bedeviling our military since at least 2005 or so.  Keep in mind that the Navy has already admitted that something is out there -- craft whose performance characteristics exceed anything with which our operational forces are familiar.

 

That said, if there were a more complete public disclosure of the DoD report, and disregarding the likelihood, for a moment, that the phenomena are a result of some super-secret US black ops program, which conclusion (and this is all completely hypothetical) do you folks believe would be more unsettling to We The People?

 

1)  The craft have been developed by a technologically adept rival power -- either Russia or China.

 

2)  The craft are of extra-terrestrial origins.

 

3)  The craft are operated by some highly evolved and heretofore unknown, non-human, native-Earth species which, for the most part, tries to avoid or evade human detection.

 

Which revelation would bother you the most?

Scratch your number 3 and substitute "Operated by humans from a more advanced era in the planets history." Then their stealth could be due to not disrupting the time line to create paradoxes.


Edited by photoracer18, 23 June 2021 - 05:53 PM.

  • russell23 and figurate like this

#11 xiando

xiando

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,726
  • Joined: 27 May 2015
  • Loc: Cloudy NEOhio

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:54 PM

Black-ops development programs are no laughing matter and are no "joke". And both the US and Soviets played that game for decades with new tech, and now we have other players too, especially with the still emergent drone tech. Iran, India, China, etc etc.. everyone's getting into this aspect. As for the faster stuff. well I'll bet that several nations are working on 7th gen fighters. including the US, and that isn't going to be disclosed easily, at least not for another decade or two (if and) when the final products are revealed.


Edited by xiando, 23 June 2021 - 05:55 PM.


#12 Sleep Deprived

Sleep Deprived

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 650
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Seattle Area

Posted 23 June 2021 - 05:55 PM

None of the above...  Ocam's razor,  and all the (non) evidence says its all a hoax being played by some Navy pilots. They must be having a huge laugh over beers.  No. 1 would be concerning but its about as unlikely as aliens.  

I would doubt there are enough military pilots willing to risk their career over propagating a hoax.  I suspect getting caught at this would be instant discharge, possibly with charges attached.  Losing one's career would be the least of a pilot's problems.



#13 City Kid

City Kid

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,549
  • Joined: 06 May 2009
  • Loc: Northern Indiana

Posted 23 June 2021 - 06:03 PM

Number 1 for sure. I find numbers 2 and 3 so far out of the realm of possibility that I just wouldn't even consider them. But even if 2 and 3 were possible I would still worry more about 1.



#14 xiando

xiando

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,726
  • Joined: 27 May 2015
  • Loc: Cloudy NEOhio

Posted 23 June 2021 - 06:13 PM

I would doubt there are enough military pilots willing to risk their career over propagating a hoax.  I suspect getting caught at this would be instant discharge, possibly with charges attached.  Losing one's career would be the least of a pilot's problems.

Is it a hoax if it's part of a program to disguise testing of secret airframes that will be seen by many who are not necessarily going to "keep secrets",  like a 6000-"man" crew aboard an aircraft carrier? (and no, I'm not denigrating our military or don't mean to. I simply mean that few sensible people expect a sailor first class to behave as if they were James Bond or one of the president's cabinet and have top secret clearance. People usually talk when they see strange things. best practice in such cases is to have a cover story...and "aliens" is a tried and true solution to the issue that's been in place since the end of WWII).


Edited by xiando, 23 June 2021 - 06:14 PM.


#15 ShaulaB

ShaulaB

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,038
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Missouri

Posted 23 June 2021 - 06:17 PM

#1

Hulu is currently streaming a TBS show called People of Earth. A fictional show with a 12 step style alien abductee support group. I suggest folks interested in aliens watch it for an entertaining diversion.

#16 russell23

russell23

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,014
  • Joined: 31 May 2009
  • Loc: Upstate NY

Posted 23 June 2021 - 06:25 PM

#1 would be most disconcerting. I think what photoracer18 mentioned is another interesting possibility.  If the physics of the universe allows time travel, and we someday figure it out, then that could be another possible explanation.  But I’m not saying I think that is the explanation.  I have no idea.

 

One would think that if it was current human technology then people in the US state department know exactly what all this is because I find it highly unlikely that any country could be that far ahead in technology without others having some idea who it is.  

 

I heard speculations that the UAP’s are United States military projects and we are simply showing off to our rivals what kind of technology we have at our disposal.  And I’ve heard speculations about the opposite - that our rivals are teasing us with some new technological breakthroughs.

 

What makes me think current human technology is an unlikely explanation is the “reports” or hints that these phenomenon now being admitted are pretty similar to what has been seen for decades.  I just find it very hard to believe that any nation developed this kind of technology decades ago.  

 

Again - its all speculation.  


  • Miguelo and bobzeq25 like this

#17 Avgvstvs

Avgvstvs

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 487
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Australia

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:00 PM

I don't buy into any of this.

Maybe 1 is the most  reasonable

2 is very very unlikely when you look at physics and evolution

and stable planetary systems required for billions of years.

I'm pretty sure there is life out there, but not your Hollywood style aliens.

3 Is total stupidity perpetuated by known frauds like David Icke

 

We are likely to be very much alone.

Any decent technological civilisation would have conquered the galaxy by now (in a couple of million years). There would be plenty of evidence in the skies, we would have spotted their radiation signatures etc

The reality is that there is NONE and we are alone


  • Dave Mitsky likes this

#18 Ron359

Ron359

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,517
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2008

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:12 PM

I think at least some of them (I'd say a large majority) mean well with their reports.  Based on my long interactions with a variety of people (older than dirt), I have a great deal of faith in those who serve.  They may be funloving, but they know how far to press a joke.

 

I would doubt there are enough military pilots willing to risk their career over propagating a hoax.  I suspect getting caught at this would be instant discharge, possibly with charges attached.  Losing one's career would be the least of a pilot's problems.

Ever heard of hubris and boredom?  And how many "Top Gun" pilots gave up their careers in the TailHook scandals?  The Navy and other services brag all the time, they love to recruit kids good at video games.   And pilots often comment how much like a video game flying a fighter jet is...   So,  what do those 3 or 4 videos of 'UFOs', look like??  

 

Apply Ocam's razor, knowing it doesn't even take a highly trained pilot to put out a video of a black blob apparently moving against some sort of background, even worse than bad video games. Things could probably get pretty boring for some E-3 in the tactical video specialist office buried in the bowels of an aircraft carrier not engaged for years in actual combat operations.  Aliens, or Russians, really?  Those videos  barely look any better than the blurry blobs of thrown 'pie-pans' from 1950's and 60s.  

 

 Is it really more likely some aliens have come thousands of light years just to fly rings around some primitive aluminum sub-sonic things with something that sucks in air and shoots it out the back end  and can't even leave the atmosphere.  Whole subject, not worth debating so I'm done.   Call me when the aliens put down on the carrier deck or in some park live on CNN.   


Edited by Ron359, 23 June 2021 - 07:30 PM.


#19 Sleep Deprived

Sleep Deprived

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 650
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Seattle Area

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:19 PM

One of the recent reports is that a 'swarm' of UFO's buzzed a navy ship, and was caught on radar.  I suspect this was a 'cloud' of military drones (a step or two up from the backyard drone operator).  I know our military is working on making drones act in concert, so if the public is hearing about it, you KNOW all the other intelligence agencies around the world are aware of it and their military is likely doing the same.  Whether it is our's, China's, Russia's, Iran's, etc, is up for debate.  I would look for the next-closest military ship's country of origin.  These things can't fly all that far.  My leading theory is that this incident was current tech that we have all heard about.  The advantage of having a few 100 or 1000 little disposable flyers is obvious - lots of data, little risk.  Suck a few into a jet intake, though, and you've got a pilot taking swimming lessons.  And you can't just shoot them down.  Sure, you can shoot into the cloud and get a bunch of them, but there's no way you are getting all of them.  Besides, they are probably on a one-way mission and are expendible, uploading data as they run out of juice, headed into the drink.

 

Of course, there are lots of other, different, incidents.  If we know what (and who's) they are, I doubt the military will be too forthcoming with details for the public if they are truly tech that we have not seen before.  Two things our military won't disclose:  our military cutting edge technology secrets, and our rivals' military cutting edge technology secrets.



#20 Adun

Adun

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,797
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2016

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:32 PM

Not being a member of the "We The People" club I find your option zero to be terrifying:

 

 

...the likelihood, for a moment, that the phenomena are a result of some super-secret US black ops program

 

Your option 3: "non human" wakanda-like earthlings would actually be awesome.

 

Option 2 "The craft are of extra-terrestrial origins" has potential positive upsides of helping unite mankind.



#21 Sleep Deprived

Sleep Deprived

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 650
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Seattle Area

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:36 PM

Ever heard of hubris and boredom?  And how many "Top Gun" pilots gave up their careers in the TailHook scandals?  The Navy and other services brag all the time, they love to recruit kids good at video games.   And pilots often comment how much like a video game flying a fighter jet is...   So,  what do those 3 or 4 videos of 'UFOs', look like??  

Oh sure, I am not saying pilots wouldn't do this.  I am saying that they couldn't do this in a widespread fashion and get away with it.  If some whiz of a pilot, with gaming and/or graphics knowledge were to 'create' such a video (and there are MULTIPLE videos, so we are talking about many 'perpetrators' here), I guarantee you that there is a 'whizzier' military analyst that could discover the hoax.  All of a sudden, Mr. Testosterone-y Guys-Will-Be-Guys-Pilot is in trouble.  Considering the hubbub in the press, the greatest 'out' for the military would be to say, "It has been determined that Lt Guys-Will-Be-Guys-Pilot created a hoax using his background in computers and graphics manipulation.  He has been stripped of his duty.  This behavior will not be tolerated in the military."  We don't hear about personnel getting in trouble for creating these hoaxes.  And if that were happening, I believe we would hear about it.

 

So, either the incidents aren't hoaxes (perhaps a misunderstanding of the evidence), or these incidents are subterfuge waaaay beyond any one individual's capability.  Either way, we are likely to get the same story from the military.



#22 Astrola72

Astrola72

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,094
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2014
  • Loc: Maryland, USA

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:46 PM

Psy-Ops. Experiment or mission.


  • xiando likes this

#23 MikeTahtib

MikeTahtib

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,265
  • Joined: 10 Oct 2016

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:49 PM

#1

As to #s 2&3, why would they/it want to bother with backward folk like us?

For the same reason we get so excited at the prospect of finding bacteria fossils anywhere in the solar system.


  • DSOGabe likes this

#24 EJN

EJN

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,921
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2005
  • Loc: Between eigenstates

Posted 23 June 2021 - 07:53 PM

Foo fighters



#25 Sleep Deprived

Sleep Deprived

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 650
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Seattle Area

Posted 23 June 2021 - 08:09 PM

That's just it.  The topic was framed as if this is something new in the 21st century.  UFO's have been confounding us for millennia (Ezekiel saw the wheel...).  'Modern' UFO's seemed to have - arbitrarily - started around 1947.  Maybe that was because Kenneth Arnold described what he saw, while piloting his plane near Mt. Rainier, as saucers (or the press did when describing his experience).  Also, the incident at Roswell happened at that time.  Before that, in the 1800's, there were reports of cigar-shaped objects flying through the sky.  This has been going on, in one form or another, for a long long time.

 

ETA:  I would like to add:  One reason that I am not too concerned about these things (the recent ones to be addressed in the report) being extraterrestrial in nature is that if they are ET, they clearly mean us no harm.  If their tech is as far advanced beyond ours as one would expect, they could snuff us out in a heartbeat.  Squash us like bugs.  Yet, they haven't.  They've been 'monitoring' us long enough that they have certainly had the opportunity (and the occasional coaxing by farmers shooting at them, military chases, military firing, etc) to do so.  If they are malignant beings, they haven't shown themselves to be so.  So.... if it turns out to be ET at the helm, I am not too worried because they don't seem to mean us any harm.  I think there are other more likely explanations, but if it were ET, I'd like to be on the welcoming committee when they finally 'come out'.


Edited by Sleep Deprived, 23 June 2021 - 08:25 PM.



CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics