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Maven-hypothetical question

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#26 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 09:01 AM

... and they don't come much better than that of the Nikon 8x30 EII.

 

Graham

Noticed that Kyoei sells these. Mid $500 USD price range. I guess the eye relief is fairly short? I do wear glasses, but also find that my eye relief requirements, even with glasses on, are shorter than that of some others.

 

I also have an older 8x30 Mastercraft picked up in a thrift store for $12 or so. Fabulous condition -- really like new in the box. But I can't use it with glasses at all. The eye relief is next to nothing. lol Also there are some distortion problems with the view. It is extremely wide though. Maybe 10 degrees. I'm experimenting with it to rationalize ordering the Nikon 8x30 EII. (I have become somewhat adept at binocular purchase rationalization. wink.gif )

 

Fiske



#27 MT4

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 11:18 AM

Noticed that Kyoei sells these. Mid $500 USD price range. I guess the eye relief is fairly short? I do wear glasses, but also find that my eye relief requirements, even with glasses on, are shorter than that of some others.

 

I also have an older 8x30 Mastercraft picked up in a thrift store for $12 or so. Fabulous condition -- really like new in the box. But I can't use it with glasses at all. The eye relief is next to nothing. lol Also there are some distortion problems with the view. It is extremely wide though. Maybe 10 degrees. I'm experimenting with it to rationalize ordering the Nikon 8x30 EII. (I have become somewhat adept at binocular purchase rationalization. wink.gif )

 

Fiske

 

The Nikon EII 8x30 is among my absolute favorite binoculars.  It's got a great TFOV, a great AFOV, and a low mag and so is easy to handhold.  It's very lightweight at under 600g.  Its central sharpness is nothing short of stunning and in my opinion fully on par with my excellent Nikon EDG 7x42, an instrument four times as expensive.  It doesn't have a field flattener (otherwise it'd be the Nikon WX 8x30) but the central 70% of the FOV gives stars that are pinpoint tight and intensely bright, even under my heavily light-polluted skies.

 

And if that's not enough to convince you of its merits, I'd let go of my Nikon SE 10x42 before my Nikon EII 8x30, though there's absolutely zero chance of either happening anytime or ever.

 

By the way, I've figured out a way to make the short eye relief of the Nikon EII 8x30 work for my glasses.   The trick is to use 3M super-thin double-sided tape to bring the bottom of the rubber eyecups as close as possible to the top of the eyepieces.  And voila, perfectly usable eye relief with my glasses on.  (The same trick works for my Nikon EII 10x35 too.)

 

In short, just open your wallet and hit the Order button already smile.gif


Edited by MT4, 17 July 2021 - 11:21 AM.

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#28 adlibitum

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 12:46 PM

Is this the 100th anniversary edition of Nikon 8x30 e2 we’re talking about? Seems only available used now or is there another model?

 

thanks



#29 dusty99

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:05 PM

My most-used binoculars for the night sky are two recent roof prism designs in 7x42 and 10x50, both Japanese made.  10x will give you a bit more magnification that you can hold reasonably still, and the 7x (as noted by others) will provide a nice wide field.



#30 MT4

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:15 PM

Is this the 100th anniversary edition of Nikon 8x30 e2 we’re talking about? Seems only available used now or is there another model?

 

thanks

 

From what I've read, the current Nikon EII 8x30 is optically the same as the 100th anniversary model, but without the anniversary sticker and with a welcome reduction in price.

https://www.kyoei-os...on-8x30e2.html 


Edited by MT4, 17 July 2021 - 01:18 PM.

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#31 sevenofnine

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:36 PM

To the OP: meditation.gif

 

I bought the original Nikon Series E 8x30 way back in the '80's. It was an excellent binocular then and I'm sure it only got better over the years with improved multi-coatings. At the time, I was working in a shop that sold them. The Nikon rep explained that his company was really trying to make a product that competed with the Germans. They were going after the best and not just a price point. watching.gif



#32 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:09 PM

Is this the 100th anniversary edition of Nikon 8x30 e2 we’re talking about? Seems only available used now or is there another model?

 

thanks

It can be purchased new from Kyoei in Japan. US companies saying it is no longer available just aren't selling it. The statements are misleading, to say the least. And Kyoei has excellent customer service. They ship via DHL -- delivery time from Japan to where I live in Kansas is an amazing four days. I've ordered two binoculars from them already.

 

https://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/

 

Fiske


Edited by Fiske, 17 July 2021 - 02:10 PM.

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#33 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:14 PM

 

In short, just open your wallet and hit the Order button already smile.gif

The 8x30 EII FOV is 8.8 degrees? The Steiner I already own is 8.4...

 

scratchhead2.gif



#34 MT4

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:24 PM

The 8x30 EII FOV is 8.8 degrees? The Steiner I already own is 8.4...

 

scratchhead2.gif

 

If it's the Steiner ShadowQuest/Nighthunter 8x56, allbinos says its measured FOV is 7.51 degs, which is a bit short of claimed FOV:

https://www.allbinos...x56_(2016).html

 

Or is it a different Steiner?


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#35 adlibitum

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:43 PM

Thanks! Is the Nikon warranty valid in the USA if purchased from vendor in Japan?

It can be purchased new from Kyoei in Japan. US companies saying it is no longer available just aren't selling it. The statements are misleading, to say the least. And Kyoei has excellent customer service. They ship via DHL -- delivery time from Japan to where I live in Kansas is an amazing four days. I've ordered two binoculars from them already.

 

https://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/

 

Fiske



#36 SMark

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:43 PM

The Steiner website was finally updated after numerous users complained that their original web page blurb on the ShadowQuest FOV was wrong @ 8.4°. It now states the FOV as... "135 m at 1000 m" which is pretty close to 7.7° which is what I measured with my ShadowQuest right after I purchased it. 

 

Allbinos.com originally had it at 7.7° for the Nighthunter 8x56, and only recently updated it to 7.51°.

 

 

https://www.steiner-...hadowquest-8x56 


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#37 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:17 PM

Thanks! Is the Nikon warranty valid in the USA if purchased from vendor in Japan?

I would NEVER send a Nikon binocular I actually wanted repaired to Nikon USA. Been there. Done that. wink.gif

 

The instrument has to be returned to Kyoei in Japan for warranty work. They say that explicitly on their QA page.

 

Fiske



#38 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:19 PM

The Steiner website was finally updated after numerous users complained that their original web page blurb on the ShadowQuest FOV was wrong @ 8.4°. It now states the FOV as... "135 m at 1000 m" which is pretty close to 7.7° which is what I measured with my ShadowQuest right after I purchased it. 

 

Allbinos.com originally had it at 7.7° for the Nighthunter 8x56, and only recently updated it to 7.51°.

 

 

https://www.steiner-...hadowquest-8x56

This helps with rationalizing the Nikon 8x30 EII purchase...

 

grin.gif

 

(I was just going with online specs -- not my own measurements.)


Edited by Fiske, 17 July 2021 - 03:20 PM.

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#39 Grimnir

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 04:02 PM

This helps with rationalizing the Nikon 8x30 EII purchase...

 

grin.gif

 

(I was just going with online specs -- not my own measurements.)

 

To further aid your rationalizing, I measured my Nikon 8x30 EII as having just over 8.9* TFoV.

 

It's a great glass, no doubt about that at all. I've just been looking at the Moon through mine and the resolution is magnificent. The only question you should ask yourself is whether you're comfortable with short ER. I've not attempted to measure it but I imagine it's about 15mm which is perfect for me.

 

Holger states it's his most-used glass and Erik sold his Zeiss 7x42 FL when he bought his 8x30 EII. These are two very experienced guys.

 

Graham


Edited by Grimnir, 18 July 2021 - 12:36 AM.

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#40 Rich V.

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 05:54 PM

Agreed that the 8x30 EIIs FOV spec is conservative. I also got closer to 9° than 8.8° myself.  After getting an eyeful of the 8x30s, I had to get the 10x35s as well. There's lots of love for the 8x30s but the 10x35s are also wonderful with an edge over the 8x at night.  They're a bit wider than their 7° spec, too.

 

Rich


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#41 MT4

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:20 PM

I could almost put Alnilam and Rigel in my Nikon EII 8x30's FOV.  That'd make its TFOV closer to 9 degs than 8.8 degs.   This was tested with my glasses on.

 

Before I found my 10-deg Kowa 7x35 by a stroke of dumb luck, the Nikon Ell 8x30 held the title of widest-field, lightest-weight, hand-holdable, and glasses-OK binocular in my entire lineup.  It doesn't hurt that it's a modern classic with stunning central sharpness that rivals that of my excellent Nikon EDG 7x42.


Edited by MT4, 17 July 2021 - 06:21 PM.

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#42 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:23 PM

To further aid your rationalizing, I measured my Nikon 8x30 EII as having just over 8.9* TFoV.

 

It's a great glass, no doubt about that at all. I've just been looking at the Moon through mine and the resolution is magnificent.The only question you should ask yourself is whether you're comfortable with short ER. I've not atempted to measure it but I imagine it's about 15mm which is perfect for me.

 

Holger states it's his most-used glass and Erik sold his Zeiss 7x42 FL when he bought his 8x30 EII. These are two very experienced guys.

 

Graham

I have a decided and strong preference for shorter ER binoculars, despite wearing glasses. smile.gif I have no trouble whatever viewing the full FOV with the Nikon 7x50 SP with glasses on. My typical complaint with a binocular is too much ER not too little.


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#43 Fiske

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:25 PM

Holger states it's his most-used glass and Erik sold his Zeiss 7x42 FL when he bought his 8x30 EII. These are two very experienced guys.

 

Graham

I'm not as familiar with Holger, but pay close attention to Erik's opinions and have considerable respect for them. wink.gif

 

Fiske



#44 MT4

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:32 PM

I have a decided and strong preference for shorter ER binoculars, despite wearing glasses. smile.gif I have no trouble whatever viewing the full FOV with the Nikon 7x50 SP with glasses on. My typical complaint with a binocular is too much ER not too little.

 

Don't think you need to worry about the Nikon 8x30 having too much ER.   In fact, with claimed ER of 13.8mm, one of the most common complaints about this model, if not the ONLY complaint, is that its ER is too short for eyeglass wearers.  Fortunately, I've found a low-tech way to make the short ER work for my glasses and that is to make every last bit of claimed ER count.


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#45 MT4

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:46 PM

How's this for a rationalization:

 

The Nikon EII 8x30 was the ONLY existing binocular model that Nikon itself chose to refresh when celebrating its 100th anniversary.  In other words, the Ell 8x30 was chosen over their top-of-the-line EDGE models.  (As you know, Nikon also made the limited edition WX 7x50/10x50 models for this special occasion.)

 

 

https://www.nikon.co...03_100th_03.htm

 

If that's convincing enough, I'll throw in the towel smile.gif


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#46 ECP M42

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 07:05 PM

I have a decided and strong preference for shorter ER binoculars, despite wearing glasses. smile.gif I have no trouble whatever viewing the full FOV with the Nikon 7x50 SP with glasses on. 

huh, but the 7x50SP has a very narrow AFOV and a fairly long ER.

 

Fiske, sorry for telling you, but you shouldn't confuse FOV with AFOV.

If we take two binoculars with the same 8 ° FOV and the same 16mm ER, but different magnification, for example 6x and 12x, we will be able to see exactly the same objects in the field of view, but the 6x will have a much narrower observation window than the 12x and it will be possible to you see it entirely even with glasses. With the 12x, on the other hand, I don't think you will succeed if you don't take off your glasses. 

 

6x 8° = AFOV 48°  bawling.gif  ... instead 12x 8° = AFOV 96° banjodance.gif bounce.gif 

 

The ER must be proportionate to the AFOV.


Edited by ECP M42, 17 July 2021 - 07:11 PM.

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#47 ihf

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 08:55 PM

I recommend not getting the E2 if needing glasses. I really liked the day views, but I never grab for them.


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#48 Rich V.

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 09:22 PM

My EIIs would be unusable if I had to wear my eyeglasses.  They provide the perfect eyepoint for me with the eyecups extended without wearing them. Super easy views.  All of the E series have worked well for me, fortunately.   Results are individual, though, and unpredictable.


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#49 Grimnir

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 12:44 AM

I'm not as familiar with Holger, but pay close attention to Erik's opinions and have considerable respect for them. wink.gif

 

Fiske

 

Holger is one of the top bino guys on the planet, his entire website is well worth reading.

 

http://www.holgermer.../favorites.html

 

Graham


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#50 Grimnir

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 12:56 AM

I have a decided and strong preference for shorter ER binoculars, despite wearing glasses. smile.gif I have no trouble whatever viewing the full FOV with the Nikon 7x50 SP with glasses on. My typical complaint with a binocular is too much ER not too little.

 

I'm in exactly the same boat - but I don't wear glasses when observing - only for reading.

 

For me, ER around the 14mm - 18mm range contributes significantly to ease-of-view.

 

Graham


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