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Cleaning UP another Old Focal 10x50... Issues

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#1 asmart

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 04:06 PM

My last post was on cleaning up an old Focal 10x50. It was not a Bak4 bin. It actually does fairly well. I have had issues with the latest project. It is also a focal 10x50. However, It is a bit newer, and has 1 piece body. The barrels do not come off so cleaning the objectives was a little challenging. I had to buy the optical spanner/wrench to remove and replace after cleaning them. I got to swab that side of the prism to while I had them out. Now for the current challenge. I want to remove the eyepieces, clean their undersides and also that end of the prism. This Focal is different from the older one and a couple of other bins I have taken apart. The **** access from the front(behind the tripod mount hole) to enable you to pull the eyepieces and "bar" out does not have a slot in it. There is hole in the middle of it but it is not an allen wrench shape. It is purely round. There are lines you can see that "look" like they would be slots for a screwdriver. Unfortunately, these lines are barely there. I tried to use a very small screw driver to just scrape then to see if I caould even feel a bump or resistance when it crossed them. I couldn't tell they were even there. Attached you will see a photo of the whole and the bottom where there should be a slotted head to release the eye piece "bar". If you could tell me what that "bar" is called, I would appreciate it. You will also see a picture from the eye piece end posted. I thought that maybe the lenses would come out if there was a screw behind the cap between the 2 eyepieces. However, I have attempted to unscrew it. Even using a pliers and rubber to protect the cap and gain some grip. I am a bit reluctant to pry with screw driver as it ill probably damage the plastic cap. If anyone has any ideas on how to tackle this, I would very much appreciate it. 

 

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  • hing_hole_rear2.jpg


#2 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 04:52 PM

How  bout a pic of the focuser- could tell you  that the focuser / eye pieces/ arms don't have to come off as a unit. You will likely find the arms will have to be removed separately by removing the rear cap hopefully finding a slotted brass or alum or steel screw that's likely held in place with thread locker adhesive. You may need a couple things for the removal of the screw- patience and a well fitting flat screwdriver to the slot. If on first go, the screw won't budge, likely you will have to heat the screw to the point the thread locker  softens enough for the screw to move. If you can get the screw to move you are more than half way home. The big screw that hold the arms to the focuser may have a small setscrew that locks it (the screw) to the focuser.  If you can see no setscrew in  the finely  threaded hole on the flat section of the head of the screw, it has to be only the thread locker holding the screw in place .   Pat



#3 MrZoomZoom2017

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 05:02 PM

It could be that the center area is where the threads from the central shaft engage with the nut which has those minimal depth slots on either side of the central hole.  Try adding some penetrating oil in the center and let it sit overnight.  I have found that the best screwdrivers to use on these are hollow-ground style where the blades sides are almost parallel where it engages the slot - thus minimizing the chance of damage/chewing up the slot.  Brownells brand are some of the finest you can buy but they do have a huge variety available of different width, blade thickness, and overall length.  You should try to use the widest bit that will fit in the hole and as tight a fit in the slot as possible - having a variety of bits is helpful for this but = $$$.  You might also want to try using some heat from a hair dryer, etc to help out.

 

If it gets completely messed up - like there is no slot left to engage a screwdriver blade - then you could try to use a very small dremel bit to grind a deeper slot which you can then hopefully get enough grip on to remove.  After removal you might be able to save the nut/screw or find a suitable replacement but that could be a little challenging unless you have a good source of part donor binoculars available...

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

P.S. Just saw Pat's advice after I posted - think we were suggesting very similar ideas...


Edited by MrZoomZoom2017, 16 July 2021 - 05:05 PM.


#4 asmart

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 06:56 PM

THANKS

#5 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 07:06 PM

does the bino still have the diopter scale with the small crew on the rear "axle" cap? Under there...   Pat



#6 asmart

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 07:42 PM

The cap does not have a screw. I tried removing with pliers and rubber to help grip and protect the cap. It did not work.

#7 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 08:17 PM

I need pics to make a better assessment. Pat



#8 asmart

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 11:07 PM

Here you go.

 

 

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#9 MrZoomZoom2017

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 12:40 AM

That cap is most likely held in place with some adhesive or double back tape.  Try gently prying under the edge with a plastic or nylon pry tool and apply some heat if needed.

 

Once you do gain access to the brass screw underneath - still advise using a tight fitting, hollow-ground slotted bit to minimize damaging that screw.

 

Keep us posted on your path to success.

 

Cheers,

Tim



#10 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 08:08 AM

I didn't notice till you posted the aft view, these are fast focus? I agree that the cover likely is pressed in place. Take a butter knife and try to lever the cap off, raising it bit by bit side to side till the o cover comes off. That should allow access to the screw with the wide cap that  holds the focus arms/eye pieces to the focus shaft. Look at the screw underneath the cap carefully to  ensure that there is no small setscrew holding the larger wide headed screw to the focus shaft. If there is loosen the setscrew and try to  unscrew the screw holding the arms.   Pat



#11 ECP M42

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:50 PM

In my opinion you have to unhook the pin from the focus wheel, by means of a screw that is somewhere inside the wheel (I can't guess without photos) and then the whole eyepiece block with its arms is removed.

 

Or, try separating the arms from the center pin (from the top) and remove the eyepieces.



#12 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:16 AM

So more pictures. The cap between the eyepieces wont budge turning or prying off. When trying to get to the back to release the eyepieces with a screw in the hinge, there is really no slot to speak of where you would expect one. I don't see a pin or anything in the focus mechanism. Of course my wife says I ;look with my eyes closed. :-)

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#13 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:17 AM

bottom view

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#14 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:18 AM

top view

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#15 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:19 AM

front view

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#16 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:50 AM

couple ideas  of where to look- under  the cover on the "quick focus" does the label look like it can  be peeled off or lifted  at the edge? The end cap that won't lift, is there a plastic insert label on the flat where the diopter marking is? Might be able to get a very thin fairly pointy edge under the label and see if it peels/pops off, might be able to access the screw then. Does the collar on the focus shaft feel like plastic or metal? If metal, it might be  made to turn if you can apply enough force either with a very small (5 inch) channel lock (tongue and groove pliers) or perhaps a bit of high friction silicone rubber gripper that will aid in the force applied with the fingers.  Pat



#17 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 10:11 AM

There is a label that may come off on the focuser. There is no plastic insert.  The collar, the part that has the ridges that you turn the focuser with is plastic. It only goes 1/2 way around the metal barrel of the focuser. I will see if the plastic part comes off without breaking it. I will check the label also. I would like to keep the label so will have to move very slow.


Edited by asmart, 21 July 2021 - 10:49 AM.


#18 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 12:07 PM

I think I may have figured it out. It looks like the plastic half circle that you use to turn the focuser snaps off. If you turn it all the way in one direction you can see a separation/slot that it fits into. I tried pretty forcibly to get it off. I had no luck. I don't want to damage it. I wanted to wipe down the prisms and the underside glass of the eyepieces. In comparing it to my almost new Pentax 10x50 sp, it is close so that additional cleaning may not get me much anyway. I am tempted to just leave it as it is. I might break something and then I would be real disappointed.



#19 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 12:13 PM

Sounds like there might be a retaining screw (under that label?). The fact that it won't budge suggests that. Otherwise  it would spin on the shaft. Can you see or feel any soft area in the center of the label that suggests a screw location?  Pat



#20 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 05:37 PM

Your logic seemed perfect. I could rub my finger nail on the sticker and could tell something was underneath. Now I had to figure out how to save the sticker if I could. I used a hair dryer to heat the adhisive and used the edge of a pin head to gently pull the edge back until I had enough to grab with tweezers. At that point I thought the goal was near!  It was not to be. Under the sticker was the words Quick Focus imbedded in the barrel cover thingy. SO I took another look. The whole center is actually one piece of plastic with NO pins, screws, etc. However, if you look at the attached photo, you can see where it looks like the thicker part has a groove in it that the piece it meets up with kind of clicks over it. I have tried pulling up with my hands and prying with a small screw driver. That plastic is good and stiff. no go. I may just have to leave it alone. I am sure someone has seen this before but finding that 1 in a million people....

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  • small_focuser.jpg


#21 MrZoomZoom2017

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 06:07 PM

Have you tried a similar approach with the diopter cover - is there an adhesive backed scale sticker/insert that can be removed to gain access to a screw underneath?  Also, I noticed in the picture in Post 15 that there appears to be a slotted brass head that was not visible in Post 1 - maybe you can remove that to gain better access to whatever is below and maybe see what kind of retention is used...

 

Hope you find a way to get inside without damaging things.

 

Cheers,

Tim



#22 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 06:13 PM

I'm back to thinking about that collar that's between the eyepieces. Either that pops off or unscrews- lesse what's there. Examine  the  interface while wiggling the collar about to see if you can suss out the method of removal. Too bad you want  to retain as much of the pristine finish as there is, I'd be killing that aspect of the binos. Pat



#23 asmart

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 07:19 PM

So there is a patent number on the shaft. I looked it up. It is basically the same mechanism as bushnel and other fast or quick focus mechanisms. In fact the drawing for the patent looks like a typical bushnel focuser  or even a Jason I have. The trick will be to remove the odd wheel/barrel thingy that covers the shaft. Then you can get to the screw inside to pull the eye  pieces out. I have supplied a ltot of pressure but no good so far. 

 

Below is the Patent doc.

https://pdfpiw.uspto...View first page


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#24 MrZoomZoom2017

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:02 PM

Have another thought here - do you see the fluted collar just above/aft of the hinges closest to the prism covers?  I have had binoculars where that collar unscrewed (opposing thumbs work well for me - a piece of a bicycle inner tube can provide great traction/grip) which then allowed the eyepiece assembly to be removed.  Looking at the patent document you provided above reminded me of that and worth a look.

 

Did you attempt to remove the disc on top of the diopter cover (that has the 60, 70, & radial marks) to see if that reveals the screw holding on the bigger cover?  Any luck?

 

Cheers,

Tim



#25 asmart

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 11:32 AM

YA, it doesn't budge. I really believe I have to pry open the plastic "barrel" that 1. you use to adjust focus and 2. surrounds the fast focus mechanism under it. It may have to wait a few days. Getting busy with non-binocular life. frown.gif   

I will update once I get back to it.




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