342 replies to this topic

[CrazyPanda]

That's where I bought my Abbes, and two of three had to be returned... and I got a little but of talk-back about returning them, they still exchanged them, but also told me nothing was wrong with them, that the dust was still within spec (no it wasn't!).

That’s the same runaround they gave me until multiple people started bring up the same issue. Then they realized it wasn’t just one picky customer.

I was not happy with how they handled that issue.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 01 September 2021 - 01:47 PM.

[helpwanted]

3 eyepieces I want to buy... about $500, but I hesitate due to this on going problem. 

[CrazyPanda]

3 eyepieces I want to buy... about $500, but I hesitate due to this on going problem. 

I don't blame you. I still want to truly try the 9 Tak Abbe (a good, clean sample) but I'm holding off until this pandemic has stopped messing with everything and both demand and production are back to normal. That might be a few years.

[fate187]

I am willing to order... however, the price for those eyepieces is steep in Germany. You get money back/return guarantee. Importing from over seas with a possible return issue, yet getting the lower price is out of question... hmmm

[Lappe Lad]

Sounds like these production issues have been going on for a while then :/

 

So that means nobody is making reliable, premium Abbe orthos right now.

 

At any rate, I got a return label for the three eyepieces without hassle, and decided to go ahead and order a pair of 32mm Tele Vue Plossls and a 7mm DeLite in their place. They're a known quantity, and my experience with the optical quality of the 11mm and 8mm TV Plossls I had was really positive, so I decided to save some money *and* play it safe and go with the TV Plossls instead of the Brandons.

 

Maybe someday I'll try the Brandons.

I recall returning a brand new Tak 5mmLE on account of an obvious milky smearing on an internal optical surface. Back in the late nineties. Also, residual concentric polishing marks creating a very disconcerting hazy appearance in new Pentax 12mm ortho and Vixen 10mm LVW. Cleaning smears on an internal surface of a new TV 19mm Panoptic. And so it goes...

 

 

It is little wonder that eyepiece reviews can vary a fair bit on matters like contrast, etc.

And then you can get eyepieces that are as flawless and limpid as a glacial lake...

 

 

Robert

[fate187]

Well, I bought two 18mm Tak Abbe eyepieces from an European vendor last week and they arrived yesterday. One pic is attached to this post. You see the very fine dust distributed over the entire lens surface in addition to some larger defects. You see this defect on the right side of the lens. On closer inspection this almost looks like some defect on the glass, and I am not talking about a dust mot here... In general, the camera makes things seem worse than they are, but in this case for an eyepiece of this design and that price point (>140€) it is not acceptable. Televue and even the larger Morpheus I have are (absolutely) clean. Those Taks will go back. I am waiting for Tak to take measures on the matter before looking to buy those Abbes.

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[CrazyPanda]

Such a shame. Makes you wonder how far back the problem persists.

 

Once the vendor I bought from realized this was a more widespread problem, he said that the sample sent back by another customer looked like someone was doing drywall construction in the room where the eyepieces were assembled (which is what my 9mm looked like to me as well).

 

Nobody is expecting a lab-grade clean room here, but this level of contamination is just not acceptable, especially from a brand like Takahashi. A few motes of dust. Fine. An even distribution of powder? Nope.

[SandyHouTex]

I just used my Tak 9mm Ortho that I purchased two years ago and it's perfect.  As are all of the Tak Orthos I own, and I own 2 sets for binoviewing, except for the 4 mms.

 

In the last 3 months I picked up all 3 of the TOEs, and they are perfect as well.

 

And just so you know, whenever I receive a new eyepiece I immediately take the caps off and look at a very bright light while rotating the eyepiece.  Any dirt or defects will immediately show up.  The only manufacturer's eyepieces I've had trouble with were Televue.

[Starman1]

I've seen lots of dust inside every brand of eyepieces, some brands a lot worse than others.

So far, though, I haven't seen one brand on which every eyepiece was perfectly clean.

These are not assembled in clean rooms.  If they were NASA level clean, we couldn't afford them.

I know that's what everyone expects, but you can't get that for the prices we pay.

 

You should know, though, that that bright light test will reveal everything in every eyepiece, and it will be an unusual eyepiece that will appear

superlatively clean on every surface.

It could have been cleaner than that, however.  That reminds me of another brand whose eyepieces are all dirty on the inside.

 

And, it may not be visible in use.  I had the return of a dirty eyepiece that was the same model I used so I looked at my own sample (2 years old, and a lot of use)

and it was just as bad.  I disassembled it and cleaned it and performed the same bright light test afterwards.  It was a lot better, but still not perfect.

I took great pains to eliminate dust motes, but they settled there in between the blower and being placed in the eyepiece.

And where I cleaned it is a lot cleaner than the factories.

 

I'm with Crazy Panda--a few motes, fine.  A heavy coating of dust?  Uh uh.

[alnitak22]

I just used my Tak 9mm Ortho that I purchased two years ago and it's perfect.  As are all of the Tak Orthos I own, and I own 2 sets for binoviewing, except for the 4 mms.

 

In the last 3 months I picked up all 3 of the TOEs, and they are perfect as well.

 

And just so you know, whenever I receive a new eyepiece I immediately take the caps off and look at a very bright light while rotating the eyepiece.  Any dirt or defects will immediately show up.  The only manufacturer's eyepieces I've had trouble with were Televue.

Hahaha! Like clockwork!

[Thomas_M44]

Well, I bought two 18mm Tak Abbe eyepieces from an European vendor last week and they arrived yesterday. One pic is attached to this post. You see the very fine dust distributed over the entire lens surface in addition to some larger defects. You see this defect on the right side of the lens. On closer inspection this almost looks like some defect on the glass, and I am not talking about a dust mot here... In general, the camera makes things seem worse than they are, but in this case for an eyepiece of this design and that price point (>140€) it is not acceptable. Televue and even the larger Morpheus I have are (absolutely) clean. Those Taks will go back. I am waiting for Tak to take measures on the matter before looking to buy those Abbes.

My god….

 

What your picture shows is reject-level —garbage.

 

Who is actually assembling these eyepieces?

 

Ridiculous. Simply unacceptable.

Edited by Thomas_M44, 14 September 2021 - 08:02 PM.

[SandyHouTex]

I think I read that CrazyPanda said that TakAmerica told him there was a problem at the factory.  Maybe it was a disgruntled worker or something.

 

On the other hand, everything I’ve gotten recently from Tak has been perfect.  A FC76DCU, a Q module for the FC76, a flattener for my TSAs, a flattener for my FS152, all three TOE eyepieces, a TSA120, and a Tak turret.  All in the last 6 months.  No issues.

Edited by noisejammer, 17 September 2021 - 03:18 AM.
ToS violation

[helpwanted]

I bet it was not one employee but the system as a whole trying to catch up on backorders from the Pandemic. Every manufacture is now rushing products to inventory and quality will suffer. 

[payner]

I hope that is not true, but I've wondered about that, even when the disruption first began.  I purchased my LE eyepieces in April 2020 before the impact could have affected what was available at that time.  They were all (seven) in perfect, new condition.  This is a shame.

 

Randy

[RichA]

A highly illustrationg video!

And I can see the same on my 17.3 Delos.

It looks like some of the eyepieces for the hobby astronomy are not assembled under the clean room standards.

 

DOCTER UWA, and the Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss spotting eyepieces in my arsenal are clean.

Surprisingly, the Pentax XW eyepieces in my arsenal are clean as well, but Pentax is manufacturing under the standards for manufacturing the photographic lenses and imaging optical systems, and so I should not be surprised.

 

For some of the tests,

I am using the ground glass (Mattglas) similarly as in the video, and the technique of the pinhole imaging, as introduced on the CN by Thomas Astrojensen,

https://www.cloudyni...-the-eyepieces/

 

Thank you very much,

JG

Kind of wonder though, diffraction effects are raised to the roof when using ultra-small apertures in many situations such as shooting pictures with a camera lens.  This highly exaggerates any defects or images of bubbles, dust inside the eyepiece body to the point where it looks far worse than without the diffraction-effects.
 

[CrazyPanda]

A camera lens is a lot bigger than your pupil though, so any effects of diffraction applied to a camera lens aperture should be far worse at your pupil, and especially so at very small exit pupils.

 

The issue though isn't really effects of diffraction, it's light scatter and contrast loss.

 

And for what it's worth, yes, a tiny mote of dust looks like godzilla is eating your eyepiece when exit pupils are very small. I routinely see Jupiter look like it does when its setting behind trees as it drifts past a nearly invisible spec of dust on the field lens of my 4.7 Ethos.

 

Dust particles become increasingly problematic the smaller the field lens is. Presumably that's true of the internal elements as well.

[Starman1]

Interesting that JG talked about Pentax XW eyepieces.

I've had a few returned due to dirt inside.

As I said, I've seen it in EVERY brand of eyepiece.

[Jan-S]

Well, I bought two 18mm Tak Abbe eyepieces from an European vendor last week and they arrived yesterday. One pic is attached to this post. You see the very fine dust distributed over the entire lens surface in addition to some larger defects. You see this defect on the right side of the lens. On closer inspection this almost looks like some defect on the glass, and I am not talking about a dust mot here... In general, the camera makes things seem worse than they are, but in this case for an eyepiece of this design and that price point (>140€) it is not acceptable. Televue and even the larger Morpheus I have are (absolutely) clean. Those Taks will go back. I am waiting for Tak to take measures on the matter before looking to buy those Abbes.

I have a pair of 18mm Tak Abbes, bought in August, and they show something similar. It seems quite homogenous, like the smaller specks in your picture, as if there is a very slight fizziness in the material. I could not see this in any of my other eyepieces, but the different optical designs really change how the flashlight bounces through the glasspath so I don't know for sure if it's comparable. I am happy with the Abbe's performance and ergonomics. I'd like to add a pair of 12.5, but have held off to see what's happening in this thread. It would be nice to hear from Tak or a Tak importer. 

[helpwanted]

Interesting that JG talked about Pentax XW eyepieces.

I've had a few returned due to dirt inside.

As I said, I've seen it in EVERY brand of eyepiece.

Still doesn't make it right when you are paying extra for what is advertised as high quality perfection. And even then, regardless of the price you pay, you shouldn't be buying defects. Optics are supposed to be clean and clear. 

[SandyHouTex]

I bet it was not one employee but the system as a whole trying to catch up on backorders from the Pandemic. Every manufacture is now rushing products to inventory and quality will suffer. 

I think you missed that I’ve received 3 TOEs from Tak in the last 3 months that have been pristine.

[CrazyPanda]

I think you missed that I’ve received 3 TOEs from Tak in the last 3 months that have been pristine.

But there's also a chance that the TOE sales volume is low enough that you got pre-pandemic samples.

 

The confluence of scopes where those eyepieces would be appropriate, and their cost, tells me they would not exactly be selling like hotcakes.

 

Then again, if the rumors are true and Tak's Abbes are made in the same place as Fujis, and TOEs are made elsewhere, it's possible the place that makes the TOEs has different quality control standards. Even the price point of the TOEs vs the Abbes suggests that.

 

But if that's a case, it's still concerning that Tak does not have uniform QC standards across its product lines.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 16 September 2021 - 10:24 AM.

[helpwanted]

I think you missed that I’ve received 3 TOEs from Tak in the last 3 months that have been pristine.

oh I get it, but I think rolling the dice for if you get good one or bad ones shouldn't be the way to buy a premium brand like Takahashi... maybe that is the case when you but $50 eyepieces from China via Amazon, but when you buy Tak for a reason, their known quality, you shouldn't be rolling the dice. I bought 3 Tak Abbes in the past few months and 2 of them had to be exchanged, the other one is a 6mm so it's too small to see the glass, so who knows how that would test. But they (LS&S) also told me the returned eyepieces were fine and within standards of dust, so that means they went back on the shelf for someone else to buy. 

[helpwanted]

But there's also a chance that the TOE sales volume is low enough that you got pre-pandemic samples.

Exactly!!

[CrazyPanda]

maybe that is the case when you but $50 eyepieces from China via Amazon

 

And for what it's worth, I bought my 9mm "Gold Line" (the generic form of the Orion Expanse) from High Point Scientific for $12.

 

I then bought the 6mm version of that eyepiece from Amazon from a seller called Yoshoo for $9.99.

 

Both were sparkling clean. Those eyepieces are exactly the kind of cheap Chinese entry-level eyepieces you're talking about and they were immaculate compared to the Taks I received.

 

That's what makes this situation with the Taks I got so frustrating.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 16 September 2021 - 10:28 AM.

[helpwanted]

And for what it's worth, I bought my 9mm "Gold Line" (the generic form of the Orion Expanse) from High Point Scientific for $12.

 

I then bought the 6mm version of that eyepiece from Amazon from a seller called Yoshoo for $9.99.

 

Both were sparkling clean. Those eyepieces are exactly the kind of cheap Chinese entry-level eyepieces you're talking about and they were immaculate compared to the Taks I received.

 

That's what makes this situation with the Taks I got so frustrating.

Especially when you want to buy more Tak eyepieces like me... as well as a Mewlon!