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C8 or 4inch APO - what to pack for vacation and the planets?

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#1 BGazing

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:58 PM

Title says it. Two weeks at seaside with clean shot to SE and S over the sea, ca 50m from the shore and above, no spray, just gentle breeze, observing from terrace which should cool by midnight, for sure. I was there on two previous occasions and the seeing was mediocre (although I had to observe right after the sunset). Observing both bino/mono (I usually settle for bino). Jupiter will transit at ca 39 degrees, Saturn at around 33 deg.

Basically, this is an old dilemma but down to a concrete application and observing conditions. Any suggestions?



#2 Supernova74

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:59 PM

C8 overall more versatility!?



#3 BGazing

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:16 PM

C8 overall more versatility!?

True that, but the site has sufficient light pollution to kill my interest in objects other than planets and the Moon (and the Moon will not be that much up at the time of my visit. So application would be 'planets only'.



#4 Supernova74

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:20 PM

True that, but the site has sufficient light pollution to kill my interest in objects other than planets and the Moon (and the Moon will not be that much up at the time of my visit. So application would be 'planets only'.

Yes there is that of course how much light pollution!?if you can give me the bortle scale and SQM etc it will give a better inclination what you can see or in this case not.however tho the C8 should give you more light grasp and contrast.another option would be if you have a baader contrast booster or moon and sky glow filter not a miracle cure however will definitely help.


Edited by Supernova74, 17 July 2021 - 02:22 PM.


#5 spereira

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:32 PM

Moving to Solar System Observing.

 

smp



#6 BGazing

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:44 PM

Yes there is that of course how much light pollution!?if you can give me the bortle scale and SQM etc it will give a better inclination what you can see or in this case not.however tho the C8 should give you more light grasp and contrast.another option would be if you have a baader contrast booster or moon and sky glow filter not a miracle cure however will definitely help.

SQM is around 20.0, not really worth it for DSOs. As I said, planets only.



#7 Supernova74

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:48 PM

SQM is around 20.0, not really worth it for DSOs. As I said, planets only.

Ok planets only besides the conditions are not as bad as you think that’s around a bortle 5 still the C8



#8 Muffin Research

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:59 PM

APO, less hassle, quick cool down, TAKsharp.

One used to hear on these sites, 4" is enough, be like O'Meara, hone those observing skills.

 

Of course a C8 is also loads of fun.



#9 junomike

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:01 PM

Tough call as the C8 will definitely be better but the Apo is so easy to set up and as you're on Vaca, a better choice IMO


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#10 Spikey131

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 04:04 PM

Easy choice:  C8.  

 

Much better for planets.  Or the moon.

 

Less expensive OTA to risk in salt air (even if the risk is low).

 

Just as easy to set up as the refractor.

The only reason to consider the Tak is if size and weight matter.


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#11 maroubra_boy

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 04:32 PM

Tough call alright.

 

You will find the APO fraternity most insistent that the APO is the way to go.  Conversely you will find the SCT lot equally so.  Mine own view, well I have my preferred poison but it is not what is at question here.  But I do have intimate insights on the two scopes you mention.  I also have experience with dealing with coastal conditions (I live on Sydney's sea coast).

 

BGazing, you have mentioned the location you will be observing from.  The most significant one that I see is the questionable seeing that being on can bring.  However, the sea breeze can be laminar in its structure too as there are no obstructions to create eddies so seeing can also be very good - complex set of geographic circumstances.  BUT sea spray (salt) IS omnipresent with a shore breeze - don't think that it isn't, especially if your digs are only a stone's throw from the shore.  With this you need to consider the long term implications on the longevity of your scope (optics AND fittings {screws, different metals such as steel and aluminium being in contact, etc}, mount, eyepieces, tripod, etc.  As for seeing, well these are changeable from day to day, so this lottery remains.

 

If seeing is on average poor, then a smaller aperture would be favourable.  But with the planets being a late evening/early morning proposition, and seeing is typically better, then you would obviously benefit from the greater resolving power of an 8" aperture and longer native focal length.

 

At the same time, you have a Quark.  While your Tak could be a little long for the Quark (I have a Quark as well, prom model), it is still a very usable focal length with a 30mm and 40mm plossls.  So early morning solar is also on the cards with the APO.

 

Cooling of the SCT is a mute point these days.  If you insulate your scope you can rip high magnification straight away without any cooling wait period.  I have been insulating my SCT's and Maks for several years now, and with insulation it only leaves seeing conditions as my mortal enemy, not the thermal issues of the OTA as well.

 

So, the choice is entirely yours.  Aperture and resolving power with the SCT, or compromise on resolving power but have solar up your sleeve too, and the Sun has finally awoken from its deep slumber.

 

One thing I also very much love doing is outreach and sidewalk astronomy.  With the sidewalk stuff, the direction of the wind is paramount in my considerations of what scope I take and if I do go or not as my preferred location is on the promenade of my local beach.  I live on the coast, so sea/salt spray is always on my mind.  If the waves are big and a sea wind is blowing, then no chance I will go.  But if a shore breeze/wind is blowing, then I have no problem taking a frac, Mak or Newt regardless of what the waves are doing.

 

This is the way I see it.  Like you I am also primarily visual.  Actually sketching is my niche - I have attached a couple of sketches so demonstrate that I DO have experience with both said-mentioned scopes.  The solar sketch I did using both the Quark (for the proms) and a PST (for the chromosphere).  So like I said, only you can make the call.

 

Alex.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Mercartor's Owl - Copy (2).JPG
  • Coronal Loops (3) LR.JPG

Edited by maroubra_boy, 17 July 2021 - 04:36 PM.

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#12 ShaulaB

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 04:47 PM

Easy choice: C8.

Much better for planets. Or the moon.

Less expensive OTA to risk in salt air (even if the risk is low).

Just as easy to set up as the refractor.
The only reason to consider the Tak is if size and weight matter.


My thoughts exactly. On planets as well as DSOs, aperture rules. More aperture means finer resolution of detail. If you have a night of good seeing, you will be glad you brought the C8.
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#13 Mark Lovik

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 05:23 PM

Pick the one easier to pack and use on vacation.  Think about what will be fun and make your vacation easier.

 

The rest ... well it depends


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#14 Gert

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:29 PM

Hi BGazing,

 

You should consider a C6 OTA as well. It has better form factor and can perform quite close to 130mm refractor.

The C6 OTAs usually go for $600, but you can find sales at $499 which I did.

 

C6_Teleskop_vs_130APO_txte2.jpg

 

Cheers,

Gert


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#15 sevenofnine

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 07:18 PM

The Tak on your AZ-GTi. You're on vacation! With all the other family demands choose a scope that will be fun for everyone. Have a wonderful time! waytogo.gif



#16 edwincjones

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 04:04 AM

I would take your Borg 71 FL as more portable,

easier to travel, set up, play with

Do not forget boats, birds, etc

I agree with Mark #13

 

edj



#17 Supernova74

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 04:41 AM

Hi BGazing,

 

You should consider a C6 OTA as well. It has better form factor and can perform quite close to 130mm refractor.

The C6 OTAs usually go for $600, but you can find sales at $499 which I 

Well apart from the 130mm Starfire having ever so slighty improved contrast and sharpness!well there is not a lot in it to be perfectly honest.makes you wounder if we all getting ripped off money wise in spending at least x6 the amounts of money for something like an apo refractor in the first place.ok it’s understandable horses for courses kind of analogy in the refractor having wider feild of views.however it does make me wounder what the results would look like if you used a better camera with the sct.



#18 ayadai

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 04:52 AM

...You should consider a C6 OTA as well. It has better form factor and can perform quite close to 130mm refractor.

The OP already has a C8 and has indicated that their goal is planetary. 2000mm vs 1500mm + already has it....'nuf said...



#19 Creedence

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 07:56 PM

Hi BGazing,

You should consider a C6 OTA as well. It has better form factor and can perform quite close to 130mm refractor.
The C6 OTAs usually go for $600, but you can find sales at $499 which I did.

C6_Teleskop_vs_130APO_txte2.jpg

Cheers,
Gert


Wow! Proof that a picture is worth a thousand words... As a TOA150 owner, this is making me question some of my life decisions.
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#20 Muffin Research

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 01:04 AM

My thoughts exactly. On planets as well as DSOs, aperture rules. More aperture means finer resolution of detail. If you have a night of good seeing, you will be glad you brought the C8.

True but there's also a higher chance of having muddled views all week. 

 

Wow! Proof that a picture is worth a thousand words... As a TOA150 owner, this is making me question some of my life decisions.

hmm I think the APO image is better even with 20mm less. Apart from the edge bleeding more I find the bands more contrasted, just a fraction more vibrant, But of course it means you can come very close with a tool just a fraction of the price. 

Maybe try a shootout between the TOA & the C8 first :)



#21 BGazing

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 01:57 AM

Thanks to everyone, I think I will go with C8, Saturn loves aperture and, hopefully, there will be at least one night when the extra aperture will make a difference...fingers crossed. Higher altitude down there might help.

Can't wait...


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