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12x50 on pgram mount for outreach?

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#1 adlibitum

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 02:58 PM

I've been using my 30 year old Carton Adlerblick 7x50's on a Vista parallelogram mount for public outreach lately. They work well together but I'm thinking of something more high power for better views of objects like the Moon, picking out Jupiter's moons, some double stars, M31, M45, Double Cluster, etc. I'm in suburban light pollution so I'm assuming a darker sky background and smaller exit pupil might actually help.

 

Due to the way the Vista pgram attaches to the binoculars I think I'm limited to porros as the metal arm is too wide for roof prism designs especially at narrower IPD's. Although there is more selection at 10x50, I was thinking of 12x50 or even 16x50 since it will be mounted. Eye relief at public outreach is important in my experience, at least 16mm would preferred (the Adlerblick's are crazy at 23mm). So far I'm looking at the Nikon Action Extreme 12x50 and 16x50 and Pentax SP WP 12x50. I think I can go up to about 40 oz but prefer to keep it under that for the Vista mount design which is not the strongest.

 

I've seen reviews of the Nikon AE and the Pentax 12x50's which seem pretty close, the Pentax seems to get an edge in coatings and edge of field sharpness where the Nikon's do have a wider TFOV (and AFOV?). I also looked at the Athlon 12x50 porros which have 14mm eye relief which might be on the tight side. 

 

Are there any models I'm missing given what I'm looking for? Would 16x50 be too restrictive a view, or maybe actually more impressive on some objects like the Moon? 

 

thanks


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#2 ShaulaB

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 03:21 PM

Would a spotting scope be too heavy? Or a small refractor?
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#3 adlibitum

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 03:28 PM

I have a TV 76 which I do also use sometimes for outreach on its own tripod. It would be too heavy for my pgram. So I’m looking for binos to provide a different experience, using two eyes is natural  and I find works well at outreach, plus it’s a quick, easy setup and the pgram of course adjusts automatically for any height while keeping the object in view.

 

thanks


Edited by adlibitum, 21 July 2021 - 03:28 PM.


#4 sevenofnine

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 09:03 PM

I've been happy with the two Oberwerk LW series binoculars that I own. The optics are good and fairly robust considering Kevin calls them light weight. The 15x70's are impressive especially for the price of $140. There are others that might suite your needs too. Good luck with your decision! waytogo.gif



#5 Nobodo

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 03:47 PM

I would recommend the AE 12x50 over the 16x50.  I have the 16x50 and find the background to be washed out in my semi-rural skies.



#6 adlibitum

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 04:42 PM

Thanks all for the tips. I ordered the Nikon AE 12x50. Part of my reasoning is that, already having a 7x50, 8x32 and 10x42, this will fit in a new “slot”. In other words, I will still have an excuse to get a 15x56 or 18x70 for my personal use later!



#7 ECP M42

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 04:43 PM

I have the 16x50 and find the background to be washed out in my semi-rural skies.

What do you mean by "the background to be washed out"?

Lack of contrast or too dark?

If it is not a defect of the binoculars, the 16x would be more contrasted than the 12x.

 

 

I was thinking of 12x50 or even 16x50 since it will be mounted.

There is also better the Pentax 20x60 with good ER.

In my opinion it would be very interesting for the Moon, Jupiter, etc ... 12x is very little to enjoy the details.


Edited by ECP M42, 22 July 2021 - 04:44 PM.

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#8 adlibitum

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 05:37 PM

I'd be curious to try the Pentax 20x60, agree the Moon and many other objects could look good. But 2.2 degree TFOV is pretty narrow and in any case I'm seeing weight of 1400 g = 49 oz which is too heavy for my particular mount. 



#9 B 26354

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 06:00 PM

There is also better the Pentax 20x60 with good ER. In my opinion it would be very interesting for the Moon, Jupiter, etc ... 12x is very little to enjoy the details.

I've never seen or used a pair of these... but about a year ago, a friend asked me about getting some "astro" binoculars... and after letting him try each of my binocs, and a lot of discussion about what his needs and expectations were, I ended up suggesting that he try the Pentax 20x60s.

 

He ended up getting something else... so unfortunately, I still have no hands-on experience with them... but simply because I love my Docter 15x60s so much, I agree with you about 12X not being quite enough, and I'm sure it would be interesting to try the Pentax 20x60s. For what it's worth, their online reviews are good... but I didn't find any commentary about them here on C-N. 

 

I had the Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe IIIs for a while, and I did like the jump from 10X (Zeiss Jenoptems) and 15X to 20X... but after I got my APM MS 25x100 EDs, the Oberwerks were so optically out-classed that I never used them again. I will also say that the amount of lunar detail visible at 25X through large binoculars is amazing.   biggrin.png

 

Hmmmm....

 

Just now realized that with a TFOV of only 2.2-degrees, the Pentax would only have a 44-degree AFOV. That's way too small for my liking.  frown.gif


Edited by B 26354, 22 July 2021 - 06:24 PM.


#10 ECP M42

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 07:01 PM

I'd be curious to try the Pentax 20x60, agree the Moon and many other objects could look good. But 2.2 degree TFOV is pretty narrow and in any case I'm seeing weight of 1400 g = 49 oz which is too heavy for my particular mount. 

in fact 2.2 ° could be tight and surely the 12x50 is easier and more fun with the wide AFOV, but I don't know the P-mount Vista and I don't understand how it can't handle 1400g (?). 

 

 

I will also say that the amount of lunar detail visible at 25X through large binoculars is amazing.   biggrin.png

 

 

the Pentax would only have a 44-degree AFOV. That's way too small for my liking.  frown.gif

Yes, 25x is better than 20x, but I don't think the credit is due to the opening. In my opinion, for the Moon, your APMs would be even "better" if you close them by 2 stops (whit 50mm masks). 

 

Regarding the Pentax there is little to say, I think it is a choice to raise the visual quality while maintaining the affordable price. I should try them to be able to judge them.



#11 B 26354

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 01:20 AM

Yes, 25x is better than 20x, but I don't think the credit is due to the opening. In my opinion, for the Moon, your APMs would be even "better" if you close them by 2 stops (whit 50mm masks). 

Hmmmm. So you're saying that -- similar to most "fast" camera lenses -- the APMs would be even sharper than they already are, if I stopped them down? Makes sense.

 

It wouldn't have occurred to me to try it... but I'll see if I can find the time to make the masks and give it a go, once the Moon is closer to last quarter.   waytogo.gif


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