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James Webb telescope might get renamed

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#1 bouvier_1

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 11:35 PM

https://www.nature.c...86-021-02010-x 

 


 

#2 EJN

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 11:51 PM

I propose renaming it either "The Money Pit Space Telescope" or "The Never to be Launched Space Telescope."


 

#3 Cali

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 11:54 PM

Just give the thing a freaking number and let's move on with our lives.

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 23 July 2021 - 11:54 PM.

 

#4 viewer

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 01:15 AM

VLST (Very Large Space Telescope) crazy.gif


 

#5 TOMDEY

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 03:56 AM

I've got some skin in that game, including work on the Center of Curvature Optical Assembly (COCOA), even including the Null Lens patent US # 7,336,370 B1. With a lota effort, that stuff went fine. It's going to be a very delicate launch and deployment.    Tom

 

"The COCOA is a precision assembly of optical instrumentation and mechanisms that engineers will use to measure the shape and alignment of all the 18 segments of JWST's 6.5-meter diameter main (a.k.a. primary) mirror."


 

#6 spereira

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 07:24 AM

Moving to Science...

 

smp


 

#7 elzopilote

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 08:00 AM

NASA will cave. 


 

#8 csrlice12

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 10:05 AM

Does the madness known as intelligence ever just stop and leave things alone?  Maybe we should go back and rename the Apollo missions as the Nagler project.


 

#9 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 10:13 AM

Here's a working link to the article.

 

https://www.nature.c...586-021-02010-x


 

#10 therealdmt

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 11:36 AM

They’ve taken so long to develop it that society has changed in the interim, lol.

 

Well, I always thought it was a bit of a strange name for a telescope, and frankly it could use a bit of a clean slate/rebranding. But, well, let’s see what the investigation says before saying Mr. Webb’s entire legacy (which featured managing NASA’s [and one of America’s] greatest triumph) is unworthy. Thing is, I doubt there’s any huge contingent of hardcore Webbophiles out there that would be just devastated by a renaming, while there is at least some percentage of people who will see a flagship telescope named Webb as a hateful reminder that they or crimes against them don’t fully count. Really, the only push to keep the name is a somewhat natural pushback against political correctness and reviewing of historical figures. I’m sure lots of people who never heard of James Webb will be absolutely furious for many hours due to that. Many hours.

 

They could always rename it like a Mars lander - Curiosity, Perseverance, Opportunity, etc. Renaming by committee going over school kids’ submissions. Wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world either as it would help get a fresh generation aware of astronomy and feeling involved…


Edited by therealdmt, 24 July 2021 - 11:44 AM.

 

#11 ShaulaB

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 12:59 PM

The spacecraft is for the benefit of the Astronomical community. So if a consensus of the AAS or other organization wants a name change, then it should happen. Yes, I think it is odd for such an important mission to be named after a political person.

When did those objecting to the name "James Webb" become aware of this problem? As the article states, the mission has been in the works since 1989. Could this have been bright up sooner? The original launch date was several years ago.

Reading replies here has given interesting insights into the posters' views.
 

#12 EJN

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 01:33 PM

Just give the thing a freaking number and let's move on with our lives.

 

- Cal

 

Excellent idea. Given its history of being way over budget and way behind schedule, it should be numbered
13 or 666.


Edited by EJN, 24 July 2021 - 03:35 PM.

 

#13 Astrola72

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 01:35 PM

I don't care what it's named, but I do care whether it becomes operational while I'm still on this side of the grass!


 

#14 fallenstarseven

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 02:50 PM

I always felt naming it after Webb was not in the best tradition of these projects.  I prefer that great figures in astronomy get the honor for space telescopes.  If they deem Webb worthy of an honor, name a building at JSC or KSC after him.  

 

Full disclosure--I am a gay person and some of what I read is troubling.  I don't know enough yet to weigh in with an opinion on Webb's actions against gay people mid-century, but I already felt that naming this space telescope after him was inappropriate.   So I'd be for renaming it regardless.


 

#15 russell23

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 04:49 PM

I was thinking about this a while back.  Why “James Webb”?  Maybe I should know but I can’t tell you what contributions Webb made to Astronomy that justify his name being on a major, long awaited space telescope.  

 

I don’t know who makes sense to name the scope after but Webb?  

 

Hubble made sense.  In a 5 year span he demonstrated that galaxies outside the Milky Way exist, developed a classification scheme for galaxies still in use today, and identified a relationship between redshift and distance that has been fundamental to modern cosmology.  That is someone you name a space telescope after.   


 

#16 Todd N

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 05:22 PM

Who else in the 20th century is going to be able to pass this kind of background test? Somehow his administrative skill and success  doesn't matter.  Uh, oh... They are coming for you Werner Von Braun. If it has to be renamed then I favor rechristening it as the Archie Bunker Telescope. 

 

Who's James Webb anyways?

 

https://jwst.nasa.go...sJamesWebb.html

 

"By the time Webb retired just a few months before the first moon landing in July 1969, NASA had launched more than 75 space science missions to study the stars and galaxies, our own Sun and the as-yet unknown environment of space above the Earth's atmosphere. Missions such as the Orbiting Solar Observatory and the Explorer series of astronomical satellites built the foundation for the most successful period of astronomical discovery in history, which continues today."


 

#17 BradFran

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 05:27 PM

BHST - Big Honkin Space Telescope


 

#18 Barlowbill

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 05:52 PM

I hope it works.  If it doesn't, there ain't no fixing it!


 

#19 EJN

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 06:18 PM

I don’t know who makes sense to name the scope after but Webb?  
 
Hubble made sense.  In a 5 year span he demonstrated that galaxies outside the Milky Way exist, developed a classification scheme for galaxies still in use today, and identified a relationship between redshift and distance that has been fundamental to modern cosmology.  That is someone you name a space telescope after.

 

If they are going to rename it, I would name it the Allan Sandage Space Telescope. Sandage was Hubble's successor, and made the first reasonably accurate determination of Hubble's constant.

 

Sandage was still alive when it was named for Webb, but passed away in 2010.

 

 

But I would not give it any new name until it is launched and deployed.

 

If it is successful, name it for Sandage. If it fails, name it the Rube Goldberg Space Telescope.


 

#20 russell23

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 06:41 PM

If they are going to rename it, I would name it the Allan Sandage Space Telescope. Sandage was Hubble's successor, and made the first reasonably accurate determination of Hubble's constant.

 

Sandage was still alive when it was named for Webb, but passed away in 2010.

 

 

But I would not give it any new name until it is launched and deployed.

 

If it is successful, name it for Sandage. If it fails, name it the Rube Goldberg Space Telescope.

Yeah - Sandage was a name I had in mind.  I think I have a letter from Dr. Sandage that was part of a three way conversation between myself, Dr. Sandage, and Halton Arp.  I’d have to go through some of my older files from around the years 2001-2002.


 

#21 Big_Eight

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 07:11 PM

Let's worry about getting the scope launched and operational first.


 

#22 turtle86

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 07:43 PM

I never thought Webb was the best choice anyway, and if the allegations are true, his name *has* to be dropped. Period.

 

In the tradition of the Hubble Space Telescope, I also would’ve strongly preferred naming its successor after another astronomer.  Sandage would be a splendid choice in my opinion.


 

#23 TOMDEY

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 07:55 PM

Oh! I didn't even key into that renaming retro-woke baloney. Heck, when I was interviewed for my background investigation back in 1968, they flat out asked me if I was anything other than classical straight. Any answer other than "No" would auto-disallow access to programs, termination of consideration... forever. That's just the way it was, back then. There's gota be a statute of limitations on society and it's people being different back then... ten, fifty, a hundred or a thousand years ago. Otherwise we might as well erase all history, condemn all our ancestors, and burn all the books.

 

The Catch-22 is that ten, fifty, a hundred or a thousand years hence... the nuvowoke crowd will be condemning us. The one and only thing that makes the present special is that it just so happens to be now. We are no more enlightened or special than grandma or our grandchildren. And they both recognize us as... just average.

 

If any one of were to be transported to the past or future... to live out our remaining years starting then... we would surely adjust to their entrenched values.     Tom


 

#24 Stevencbradley

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 08:15 PM

For some reason, I flashed to the incredibly funny discussion in "Young Frankenstein" about his name. 

It reminded me of this clip...

https://youtu.be/WamF64GFPzg

 

And this...

 

https://youtu.be/TNgAQzdJO7Q


 

#25 gwd

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 09:46 PM

If it is way over budget and behind schedule would he have wanted his name associated with it?   The government should just publish a list of people who have never ever transgressed any current or future mores so we can be sure to pick one of them when we want to honor someone's achievements.   Or maybe circumscribe the name with just what is considered the man's positive goals.  "The James Webb NASA Science Project Management Telescope" "The Hubble Cosmological Theorizing Telescope"  "The GWD Harmless Stargazer Telescope".....  


 


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