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Are these eyepieces clones/copies?

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#51 LDW47

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 03:43 PM

 One of those entities is the PRC which adjusts their currency and offers rebates to exporters to balance the tariffs.

Where did you get this info



#52 JamesDuffey

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 03:59 PM

I am not sure where f18dad got his information, but here are a couple of references to the issues he raised:

 

Currency manipulation:

< https://home.treasur...-releases/sm751 >

 

Export tax rebates:

< https://www.china-br...isk-management/ >






Edited by JamesDuffey, 01 August 2021 - 04:08 PM.


#53 LDW47

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 05:08 PM

I am not sure where f18dad got his information, but here are a couple of references to the issues he raised:

 

Currency manipulation:

< https://home.treasur...-releases/sm751 >

 

Export tax rebates:

< https://www.china-br...isk-management/ >





Very interesting  I am not sure Canada has the same concerns, I have heard too much about the issue up here  I will look into it



#54 JamesDuffey

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 05:25 PM

Very interesting  I am not sure Canada has the same concerns, I have heard too much about the issue up here  I will look into it

OK, sometimes hearing too much about a topic is as bad as hearing too little. 



#55 RLK1

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 05:29 PM

I am not sure where f18dad got his information, but here are a couple of references to the issues he raised:

 

Currency manipulation:

< https://home.treasur...-releases/sm751 >

 

Export tax rebates:

< https://www.china-br...isk-management/ >





Er, ah, currency manipulation was one of the main reasons for the tariffs on China in the first place so how this now becomes some sort of an explanation for not doing business with the country now doesn't make sense. Nobody in any governmental policy statement has said don't do business with China. They have said that if you do, then you may have to pay more in the form of a tariff but even that is not applicable to all items originating from China, including various items from Svbony, like the 18 mm eyepiece in question.

Of course there may be export taxes or duties on an imported product. How is this news to anybody? And of course one may very well pay state and local taxes on such an item as well depending on one's location.

Again, how is this news to anybody?...


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#56 Starman1

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 06:14 PM

An individual importing one eyepiece from China may pay no tariff at all.

But a company importing 50 eyepieces will.

It's a function of value imported as to whether it is tariff free or not.

There is no duty on eyepieces.  The additional tariff is all that applies, and only above a certain value.


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#57 LDW47

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 06:28 PM

OK, sometimes hearing too much about a topic is as bad as hearing too little. 

I meant haven't heard too much .....



#58 LDW47

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 06:30 PM

Er, ah, currency manipulation was one of the main reasons for the tariffs on China in the first place so how this now becomes some sort of an explanation for not doing business with the country now doesn't make sense. Nobody in any governmental policy statement has said don't do business with China. They have said that if you do, then you may have to pay more in the form of a tariff but even that is not applicable to all items originating from China, including various items from Svbony, like the 18 mm eyepiece in question.

Of course there may be export taxes or duties on an imported product. How is this news to anybody? And of course one may very well pay state and local taxes on such an item as well depending on one's location.

Again, how is this news to anybody?...

Very well questioned



#59 teashea

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 07:02 PM

Another reason tarriffs may not be fully seen by the consumer is that sometimes one or more entities in the supply chain may decide to absorb part or all of them.

Actually they cannot do this.  A tariff is not imposed until the imported item goes through customs in the US.  There is no way for a vendor outside the US to pre-pay a tariff.  


Edited by teashea, 01 August 2021 - 07:05 PM.

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#60 LDW47

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 07:30 PM

Actually they cannot do this.  A tariff is not imposed until the imported item goes through customs in the US.  There is no way for a vendor outside the US to pre-pay a tariff.  

Thats what I thought


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#61 JamesDuffey

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 08:10 PM

I meant haven't heard too much .....

wink.gif



#62 f18dad

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 08:51 PM

Actually they cannot do this.  A tariff is not imposed until the imported item goes through customs in the US.  There is no way for a vendor outside the US to pre-pay a tariff.  

Actually what is meant by the statement this post is referring to is that any party in the supply chain may decide to reduce their profit margin in order to offset the increased cost imposed by increased tariffs. The tariffs are fixed and based on the FOB value of the product and paid by the importer or by an individual above a certain value (I think $800?). 



#63 LDW47

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 10:57 PM

Actually what is meant by the statement this post is referring to is that any party in the supply chain may decide to reduce their profit margin in order to offset the increased cost imposed by increased tariffs. The tariffs are fixed and based on the FOB value of the product and paid by the importer or by an individual above a certain value (I think $800?). 

Is their something wrong with that



#64 f18dad

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 11:36 PM

Is their something wrong with that

There is nothing wrong nor right. Just a statement of fact. 



#65 darkandstormynight

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 01:36 PM

Actually they cannot do this.  A tariff is not imposed until the imported item goes through customs in the US.  There is no way for a vendor outside the US to pre-pay a tariff.  

The overseas manufacturer can lower their price to the importer to help offset tarriffs. Anyone in the supply chain this side of US Customs can also absorb part of the cost if their margins are enough to allow it and they think it worthwhile to keep goods flowing, particularly if it looks like reduced tariffs are on the horizon. Maybe it just isn’t done with astronomy gear, but I’ve seen it happen in other markets. Stateside manufacturers eating some or all of the tarriff-related increases in raw materials costs, importers absorbing some or all of the tarriffs imposed on EU olive oil, wine, etc.


Edited by darkandstormynight, 02 August 2021 - 01:38 PM.


#66 Starman1

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 02:41 PM

Such a tariff can hurt a lot.

ES just got hit with the 25% tariff, increased shipping costs, factory price increases and higher brokerage fees all at once.

It resulted in some shockingly large price increases.

 

Back to "clones".  A clone would be a copy of the original.  These are merely private label name changes on the same eyepieces,

so would be more analogous to a disguise, like wearing a wig.  You're still the same person with a slightly changed outer appearance. 



#67 RLK1

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 02:45 PM

Such a tariff can hurt a lot.

ES just got hit with the 25% tariff, increased shipping costs, factory price increases and higher brokerage fees all at once.

It resulted in some shockingly large price increases.

 

Back to "clones".  A clone would be a copy of the original.  These are merely private label name changes on the same eyepieces,

so would be more analogous to a disguise, like wearing a wig.  You're still the same person with a slightly changed outer appearance. 

"ES just got hit with the 25% tariff, increased shipping costs, factory price increases and higher brokerage fees all at once.

It resulted in some shockingly large price increases."

Yikes! Maybe my ES items will soon becomes collector's items!lol.gif



#68 Dobs O Fun

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 03:25 PM

The overseas manufacturer can lower their price to the importer to help offset tarriffs. Anyone in the supply chain this side of US Customs can also absorb part of the cost if their margins are enough to allow it and they think it worthwhile to keep goods flowing, particularly if it looks like reduced tariffs are on the horizon. Maybe it just isn’t done with astronomy gear, but I’ve seen it happen in other markets. Stateside manufacturers eating some or all of the tarriff-related increases in raw materials costs, importers absorbing some or all of the tarriffs imposed on EU olive oil, wine, etc.


Remember that a mfg can change cost on certain items to subsidize so the increases may not be so bad looking on a given product line
Distributor often have a set price to sell as recommended or directed by mfg. Not always but can.


Edited by Dobs O Fun, 02 August 2021 - 03:26 PM.


#69 darkandstormynight

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for all the above comments. We likely all agree tariffs are bad for business but that’s not the topic here so apologies for hijacking the thread.



#70 RLK1

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 09:35 PM

I see Amazon's got a special on the Celestron-branded 24mm clone of the UFF for $164.80. Don't know how long the special will last...


Edited by RLK1, 02 August 2021 - 09:36 PM.


#71 LDW47

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 07:13 AM

What everyone has forgot is that prices of whatever are never the same as what is called the Suggested Manufacturers Price ( SMP ) usually they are lower but sometimes they can be higher  That kind of takes the wind out of the sales / sails of that ........


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#72 RLK1

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 11:02 AM

What everyone has forgot is that prices of whatever are never the same as what is called the Suggested Manufacturers Price ( SMP ) usually they are lower but sometimes they can be higher  That kind of takes the wind out of the sales / sails of that ........

That makes no sense at all. If a eyepiece is sold for less that than usual asking price, whether it be a so-called "suggested manufacturers price" or an average price of that charged by dealers, then it's a discounted price.

In the case of the eyepiece sale noted in post #70 above, the eyepiece is being sold on sale at $164. 80. The usual price for this type of eyepiece, whether you call it a suggested list price or an average dealer price is almost $200.00. So, whatever you call it, a discounted price, a sale price or a special, really doesn't matter, it's still substantially less than the usual and customary price...


Edited by RLK1, 03 August 2021 - 11:03 AM.


#73 Dobs O Fun

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 11:19 AM

I forgot what the topic was...

 

belushi.gif belushi.gif


Edited by Dobs O Fun, 03 August 2021 - 11:20 AM.

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#74 Bener

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 11:58 AM

It all started with me asking what I thought was a pretty straightforward question, but quickly became a discussion about geopolitics and trade policies.

After the long and winding discussion about those things, Starman1 just recently got to the issue I was asking about. According to him, perhaps the two specific eyepieces I was asking about aren't exactly clones, it might be better described as a given product masquerades as other products, but with the same specifications, it's just disguised.


Edited by Bener, 03 August 2021 - 03:10 PM.

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#75 Bener

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 11:58 AM

It all started with me asking what I thought was a pretty straightforward question, but quickly became a discussion about geopolitics and trade policies.

After the long and winding discussion about those things, Starman just recently got to the issue I was asking about. According to him, perhaps the two specific eyepieces I was asking about aren't exactly clones, it might be better described as a given product masquerades as other products, but with the same specifications, it's just disquised.


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