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Saturn this morning...AS!3 MAPs layout + spot animation!

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#1 Kokatha man

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:14 AM

Edit - have added the MAPs box layout I used for this night's captures plus a small animation showing the NPR white spot motion in Post #12... wink.gif

 

Hi all, some might have read my comments in other folks' threads about how bad the weather is in Southern Oz atm - or been experiencing it themselves! frown.gif

 

Monday (yesterday here, 26th July) was the first day without driving rain & howling winds, clear but under a raging jet-stream...

 

So desperate were we that we set up for a midnight to 2am session, knowing that we'd have to pull everything down for the maelstrom that was forecast for today...although we probably could've left it until later this morning given we escaped much of the weather today where we are situated.

 

Certain jet-stream conditions are nowhere near as bad as others...that & the clear sky forecast giving us hope. wink.gif

 

Unfortunately we needed to spend more time than I would've liked capturing Saturn for a small WJ integration - 3 captures integrated after the first was too poor...none of these were great onscreen but sufficient enough to be half-optimistic given that each comprised nearly 80,000 frames.

 

Moving to Jove the first capture was the best even if it didn't inspire us with any enthusiasm lol.gif but we sat it out until just after 2am...but it was all downhill from that first capture. frown.gif

 

A pity, that first showed some reasonable activity in the SEB following the GRS, but we would've needed at least 3 or 4 captures run through WJ to create anything worth keeping or posting...but after the 2nd capture the planet turned to mush. frown.gif

 

But as I've said often, "Saturn is the Mars when Mars isn't around" insofar as even in poor seeing this planet is still capable of creating decent outcomes: nothing to get ecstatic about lol.gif but it wasn't too bad & worth posting imo - even capturing a couple of white spots, the most prominent being on the edge of the SPR & SSTeZ EDIT NPR & NNTeZ!...perhaps the same one or a recurring one that has been captured quite often by us & others although as yet I haven't made any position measurements or checked other data...but regardless, good to get something at least! smile.gif

 

s2021-07-26_15-23_rgb_dpm.png


Edited by Kokatha man, 28 July 2021 - 03:50 AM.

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#2 Kokatha man

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:19 AM

ps: The focus was very difficult to achieve for Saturn as it was the type where seeing creates problems nailing accurate focus - it was also that "vibrating seeing" I've described elsewhere that can induce splitting of the Cassini Division at the ansae which has been a current topic: I'll post the AS!3 MAPs setup I used to try & prevent that problem if I haven't closed it on my capture laptop...which I suddenly suspect I might've..! lol.gif


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#3 John Boudreau

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:42 AM

A very fine result, especially considering the conditions you described Darryl! waytogo.gif



#4 dcaponeii

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:49 AM

Great images. I’ll be interested in seeing the MAP sequence you used.

#5 happylimpet

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:05 AM

Great images. I’ll be interested in seeing the MAP sequence you used.

Ditto! Always curious to see how others tackle this.

 

A lovely image.


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#6 mayhem13

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:20 AM

OUTSTANDING SIR!!!!!!!



#7 KiwiRay

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:32 AM

A very good-looking image, Darryl - the kind of thing I can only get on the best nights here.


Edited by KiwiRay, 27 July 2021 - 11:32 AM.


#8 Lopper

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 12:10 PM

Your Saturn pics are always breathtaking. Thanks for sharing!



#9 Tulloch

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:42 PM

Very nice Darryl, surely this weather has to stop eventually? praying.gif shakecane.gif



#10 Kokatha man

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 07:38 PM

Thank you to all who posted or "Liked" the thread - appreciated! smile.gif

 

As I wrote earlier, I had already closed AS!3 but I'll go back inside & recreate the arrangement...I was surprised to see that bright spot just inside the SPR NPR boundary given that the seeing was pretty pedestrian & had me thinking that the substantial increase in MAPs boxes on the planet might've been advantageous wrt that... hmm.gif

 

Mainly the chance to image & go through the processing routines were the big take-aways from this particular morning - I'll post the AS!3 setup later...& "yes" Andrew - surely this weather has to stop eventually! fingerscrossed.gif


Edited by Kokatha man, 27 July 2021 - 10:04 PM.


#11 Az Frank

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:07 PM

Very nice Darryl, Like Ray says looks like one of mine at my best seeing. Looks like you took nice advantage of the Seeliger effect in Saturn's rings. Still waiting for monsoon season to let up here in southern Az. rains a plenty but we needed it! 


Edited by Az Frank, 27 July 2021 - 11:08 PM.


#12 Quopaz

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 04:21 AM

Pretty good result for what was not a really good night. That would be the same night I tried. I just thought it was too windy, but you
mention the jet stream- is that winds higher up? I also found it difficult to get good focus that night with Saturn.

#13 Kokatha man

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 04:22 AM

Thank you Frank & for other "likes" posted! smile.gif

 

You're right Frank - I was about to make a comment about the Seeliger Effect starting to hot up in this post but you beat me to it! smile.gif No monsoons but plenty of rain down here...it is supposed to be clear tonight but with a "code purple" meaning 160+ knots for jet-stream currents, but the nature of them gives us an idiotic optimist's glimmer of hope lol.gif so we're set up in anticipation..! grin.gif

 

My earlier promise to show the MAPs setup I used for the images here is a reconstruction but pretty much on the money - I had closed the original AS!3 that I processed from but this is pretty accurately recomposed.

 

I start with a centre box & use that to place a "wheel" around said centre box & then 4 inside this "wheel" to cover the central regions as per: 

 

#1.jpg

 

I then from habit place one box centred upon where the disk touches the rings in those 4 places - I cannot recall whether I came up with this myself or after I agreed to send Emil some outstanding  Saturn data for him to "play" with a long time ago now...he asked me to place the MAPs in certain positions he drew up as it was the easiest way for him to work with the data - but it might not have been his idea, but I have no idea now! lol.gif

 

I then construct another "wheel" around that first "wheel" like so:

 

#2.jpg

 

A final "wheel" inside the limb of the planet making sure I don't get too near the edge as per general admonitions as below:

 

#3.jpg

 

I then create a series of MAPs boxes chosen so that the size encompasses the entire ring section at the ansae centred on the C.D. - you'll note that I increased their size here from those on the disk to be able to do so...& at the ansae on the LHS you can see that slightly distorted section of the Cassini Division right on that ansa - why I decided it was worthwhile to cover the rings with MAPs boxes as per other comments I've made regularly re Saturn's rings here on CN.

 

#4.jpg

 

I conclude by switching to "Drawn" MAPs boxes, creating 2 that overlap with each one encompassing the planet & all the MAPs in their halves.

 

#5.jpg

 

I've been creating more MAPs boxes for processing Saturn for quite some time now although the examples in my website tutes show the older approach which is similar except for the number & (possible) sizing, as well as (I think) not showing the problematic ring/C.D. approach. wink.gif

 

Finally, here's the 3 individual stack images made into a reversing animation with a slightly larger gap between images/frames 2 & 3 as there was for 1 & 2...I've edited my location of the spot from that of the earlier posts to the NPR & NNTeZ - I had said SPR which is of course incorrect...I used my template for the belts/zones of Saturn & it is a "south up" image/template so I erroneously (ie, carelessly without applying any brain function!) just described it as the "South" regions! rolleyes.gif

 

s2021-07-26_15-09_rgb_dpm.gif

 

 

 

 


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#14 Kokatha man

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 04:24 AM

Pretty good result for what was not a really good night. That would be the same night I tried. I just thought it was too windy, but you
mention the jet stream- is that winds higher up? I also found it difficult to get good focus that night with Saturn.

The 300HPa jetstream Q, the higher winds which usually give a good indication although you still have to toss that coin! :lol: - & "yes" focus was very difficult with the seeing presented. :(



#15 dcaponeii

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 07:14 AM

Thank you Frank & for other "likes" posted! smile.gif

You're right Frank - I was about to make a comment about the Seeliger Effect starting to hot up in this post but you beat me to it! smile.gif No monsoons but plenty of rain down here...it is supposed to be clear tonight but with a "code purple" meaning 160+ knots for jet-stream currents, but the nature of them gives us an idiotic optimist's glimmer of hope lol.gif so we're set up in anticipation..! grin.gif

My earlier promise to show the MAPs setup I used for the images here is a reconstruction but pretty much on the money - I had closed the original AS!3 that I processed from but this is pretty accurately recomposed.

I start with a centre box & use that to place a "wheel" around said centre box & then 4 inside this "wheel" to cover the central regions as per:

#1.jpg

I then from habit place one box centred upon where the disk touches the rings in those 4 places - I cannot recall whether I came up with this myself or after I agreed to send Emil some outstanding Saturn data for him to "play" with a long time ago now...he asked me to place the MAPs in certain positions he drew up as it was the easiest way for him to work with the data - but it might not have been his idea, but I have no idea now! lol.gif

I then construct another "wheel" around that first "wheel" like so:

#2.jpg

A final "wheel" inside the limb of the planet making sure I don't get too near the edge as per general admonitions as below:

#3.jpg

I then create a series of MAPs boxes chosen so that the size encompasses the entire ring section at the ansae centred on the C.D. - you'll note that I increased their size here from those on the disk to be able to do so...& at the ansae on the LHS you can see that slightly distorted section of the Cassini Division right on that ansa - why I decided it was worthwhile to cover the rings with MAPs boxes as per other comments I've made regularly re Saturn's rings here on CN.

#4.jpg

I conclude by switching to "Drawn" MAPs boxes, creating 2 that overlap with each one encompassing the planet & all the MAPs in their halves.

#5.jpg

I've been creating more MAPs boxes for processing Saturn for quite some time now although the examples in my website tutes show the older approach which is similar except for the number & (possible) sizing, as well as (I think) not showing the problematic ring/C.D. approach. wink.gif

Finally, here's the 3 individual stack images made into a reversing animation with a slightly larger gap between images/frames 2 & 3 as there was for 1 & 2...I've edited my location of the spot from that of the earlier posts to the NPR & NNTeZ - I had said SPR which is of course incorrect...I used my template for the belts/zones of Saturn & it is a "south up" image/template so I erroneously (ie, carelessly without applying any brain function!) just described it as the "South" regions! rolleyes.gif

s2021-07-26_15-09_rgb_dpm.gif


Thanks much for taking the time to describe your procedure.

#16 le geolois

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 08:48 AM

Hello and thank you for sharing
It's always interesting to learn how AS 3 works on your own images. The description of the protocol gives "tracks" to follow.
As for the animation...it's great! Nothing like it to highlight this little white dot. Any information about this event?
Congratulations, it's still a very good post.
Good sky
alain



#17 Vinny1980

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 09:24 AM

Hello Darryl,

I ve been interested as well in the "Saturn ring artifact" problem and wondered if a proper placement of MAP would be enough to solve the problem. Your final outcome is very interesting waytogo.gif Could you post the image you obtain with a more standard (or automatic) AP placement?

My understanding on this sort of issue is that they are seeing-related somehow, so the software reads them as signal and stacks in accordance. 



#18 Sunspot

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 10:13 AM

attachicon.gif#5.jpg
 

That is almost exactly how I place my AP's on Saturn. My only variance is to place a few AP's in the area of the Encke minima...just because I can (lol.gif) The results speak for themselves. Glad to see I'm doing it either right or like someone else. lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif



 

I've been creating more MAPs boxes for processing Saturn for quite some time now although the examples in my website tutes show the older approach which is similar except for the number & (possible) sizing, as well as (I think) not showing the problematic ring/C.D. approach. wink.gif

 

Finally, here's the 3 individual stack images made into a reversing animation with a slightly larger gap between images/frames 2 & 3 as there was for 1 & 2...I've edited my location of the spot from that of the earlier posts to the NPR & NNTeZ - I had said SPR which is of course incorrect...I used my template for the belts/zones of Saturn & it is a "south up" image/template so I erroneously (ie, carelessly without applying any brain function!) just described it as the "South" regions! rolleyes.gif

 

attachicon.gifs2021-07-26_15-09_rgb_dpm.gif



#19 Kokatha man

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 08:36 PM

Hello Darryl,

I ve been interested as well in the "Saturn ring artifact" problem and wondered if a proper placement of MAP would be enough to solve the problem. Your final outcome is very interesting waytogo.gif Could you post the image you obtain with a more standard (or automatic) AP placement?

My understanding on this sort of issue is that they are seeing-related somehow, so the software reads them as signal and stacks in accordance. 

Hi Vinny - apologies but that data has been moth-balled & I have a mountain if work in front of me today, despite the 180mph/300kmh jet-stream this morning! smile.gif

 

But I concur - often these "split" C.D.'s are the result of a certain type of seeing that we term "vibratory" & is something we have experienced/observed many times over the years.

 

The placing of an entire "string" of MAPs along the C.D. does seem to correct the problem sometimes - but not always!

 

Alain, I've still to measure the bright spot but one has shown up regularly in that position over time...quite possibly the same one. confused1.gif



#20 Tulloch

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 09:13 PM

Excellent animation, I hadn't noticed the little white spot earlier, but the animation certainly makes it clear!



#21 Kokatha man

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 09:29 PM

Yes, a good way to see what's on the disk in a single image is to shrink it down & grab the window & move it around on the screen - movement tends to let the eye pick up anything that might otherwise be a bit obscure...an old trick! ;)


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#22 MichaelTeoh

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 12:33 AM

I usually let AS!3 do the auto AP grid placement. What is the downside of that?

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Saturn.jpg


#23 mayhem13

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 01:12 AM

Thanks for sharing you MAP procedures,…..I’ve been letting AS do the default mapping as I’m unclear as to the mechanism behind the alignment points enough to do it manually…..I suppose experimenting is the best exercise! 



#24 matt_astro_tx

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Posted 06 August 2021 - 02:37 PM

Edit - have added the MAPs box layout I used for this night's captures plus a small animation showing the NPR white spot motion in Post #12... wink.gif

 

Hi all, some might have read my comments in other folks' threads about how bad the weather is in Southern Oz atm - or been experiencing it themselves! frown.gif

 

Monday (yesterday here, 26th July) was the first day without driving rain & howling winds, clear but under a raging jet-stream...

 

So desperate were we that we set up for a midnight to 2am session, knowing that we'd have to pull everything down for the maelstrom that was forecast for today...although we probably could've left it until later this morning given we escaped much of the weather today where we are situated.

 

Certain jet-stream conditions are nowhere near as bad as others...that & the clear sky forecast giving us hope. wink.gif

 

Unfortunately we needed to spend more time than I would've liked capturing Saturn for a small WJ integration - 3 captures integrated after the first was too poor...none of these were great onscreen but sufficient enough to be half-optimistic given that each comprised nearly 80,000 frames.

 

Moving to Jove the first capture was the best even if it didn't inspire us with any enthusiasm lol.gif but we sat it out until just after 2am...but it was all downhill from that first capture. frown.gif

 

A pity, that first showed some reasonable activity in the SEB following the GRS, but we would've needed at least 3 or 4 captures run through WJ to create anything worth keeping or posting...but after the 2nd capture the planet turned to mush. frown.gif

 

But as I've said often, "Saturn is the Mars when Mars isn't around" insofar as even in poor seeing this planet is still capable of creating decent outcomes: nothing to get ecstatic about lol.gif but it wasn't too bad & worth posting imo - even capturing a couple of white spots, the most prominent being on the edge of the SPR & SSTeZ EDIT NPR & NNTeZ!...perhaps the same one or a recurring one that has been captured quite often by us & others although as yet I haven't made any position measurements or checked other data...but regardless, good to get something at least! smile.gif

 

attachicon.gifs2021-07-26_15-23_rgb_dpm.png

What tool are you using to generate the posted image that overlays the vector icon in the upper right corner and the text in the lower left?  I seem to recall many people use this format.  Just curious.




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