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M8 HOO attempt

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#1 jcn

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 10:34 AM

Last night was quite a bit less smoky than it has been lately, so I decided to spend a couple hours feeding the mosquitos on a work night... M8 is one of my favorite objects, quite possibly because it's one of the first things I accidentally captured when I stuck a DSLR on a star adventurer last August and pointed it south.

 

I used a dual-band filter and processed it in APP (I'm really liking the new star reducer tool in the new APP -- if only I knew what I was doing with it) using the "extract Ha" and "extract OIII" tools and recombining them, which I am still learning. Seems no matter how I messed with the sliders while recombining, I came out with an image that seems a bit orange to my taste. At least without turning the stars purple or other psychedelic effects. Is this normal? I first ran it through as a normal OSC image, just to see what I had, and it came out very red, as I am used to, with some blue around the Trifad. I still like it, but I spent quite a bit of time trying to make it more red, without a lot of success. I didn't get the framing quite the first session three weeks ago, but now I'm committed to it unless I want to start over frown.gif

 

M8 combine RGB image Lpc Cbg Csc 1 St
 
36 X 300 seconds, using the equipment below...
 

Suggestions welcome lol.gif


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#2 ChiTownXring

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 10:39 AM

I also noticed the skies were pretty clear in Sugar Grove so I got as many subs as possible.. I am liking your image as it's dark and mysterious..



#3 John O'Grady

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:04 AM

Very nice, I like how the color turned out on this.

Nice to see an example of M8 in HOO color palette.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

 

John



#4 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:13 AM

Would HOO not be red and blue/cyan?

 

Ha in the red channel

OIII and SII in the blue and green channel.

 

?

 

Still nice detail though, nice objects , but too low for me to catch..pity



#5 jcn

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:35 AM

I am liking your image as it's dark and mysterious..

 

Thanks -- "Dark and mysterious" wasn't a category I had considered before lol.gif . But hey, it does kinda work. We're not too far away, apparently. Between the rain and now smoke, there haven't been very many nights for imaging this summer... 

 

Nice to see an example of M8 in HOO color palette.

 

So you're saying this is want I should expect from this? It's a bit different than what I was expecting based on the couple previous attempts I've made with dual-band processing before.

 

Would HOO not be red and blue/cyan?

 

That's what I was expecting....but not what I got. The prior attempts I used this process I got more red and blue, and not so much orange/brown.

final-combine RGB image Lpc Cbg St
 
but too low for me to catch..pity

 

 

It's none too high here either. About 20 degrees I think and much before midnight it's in the trees and the light dome from Peoria. frown.gif


Edited by jcn, 27 July 2021 - 11:36 AM.

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#6 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:39 AM

Nice Rosetta!

 

Looks like one of mine i made , but got a bit too much noise.

 

That is HOO allright. But seems not many people like the Rosetta that way..i got the remark from friends, hey, can't you get it more red...grin.gif

 

I can yes, but that is not very realistic perhaps...



#7 jcn

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:43 AM

Nice Rosetta!

 

Thanks, that's one of my better images I think, and my first successful dual-band processing. I was expecting something more in line with that color scheme, but as I said, I'm still learning this process. I should have written down the settings I used for that Rosette, but alas, I didn't and I'm left trying to re-create that effect.



#8 HowardSD

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 02:58 AM

I've been experimenting myself using the HOO palette in APP, there's a couple of good videos on youtube on how to do this. In fact the image of the rosette you said you'd hoped for color-wise is one of those videos by a german or dutch guy I think. I've been using that video myself as a starting point.

 

It looks to me as you didn't click on the "Saturation" button (on right hand side underneath the histogram) after combining the images and playing with the sliders. I've noticed until you click saturation the images can look somewhat washed out.



#9 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 05:02 AM

Thanks, that's one of my better images I think, and my first successful dual-band processing. I was expecting something more in line with that color scheme, but as I said, I'm still learning this process. I should have written down the settings I used for that Rosette, but alas, I didn't and I'm left trying to re-create that effect.

It sure is a nice image.

 

this below is trial of mine, not bad, but bit noisy.

 

Trouble is i don't know any more exactly how i did it. I used also the L-enhance filter with thatone

 

Looks like a turbulent and hostile environment dunnogrin.gif

 

Still strange that your M8 image comes out brown/orange

 

Are you willing and able to upload your stack? Perhaps i can take a look. Dunno if i will succeed cause it has been awhile that i did the HOO ...

Attached Thumbnails

  • HOO_OSC_comb3.jpg

Edited by F.Meiresonne, 28 July 2021 - 05:20 AM.


#10 jcn

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 09:27 AM

Are you willing and able to upload your stack?

 

You're right, I should have thought to do that already.

 

Here is the extracted Ha data:

https://www.dropbox....n_2-1.fits?dl=0

 

O-III is here:

https://www.dropbox....n_2-2.fits?dl=0

 

And the combined result is here:

https://www.dropbox....image.fits?dl=0

 

This is before any post processing (background calibration, light pollution removal, stretching).



#11 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 02:32 PM

Tried to access the links but dropbox reports item has been removed...

 

??



#12 kathyastro

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 02:42 PM

Oiii tends to be a lot weaker than Ha.  So you generally have to do some manual colour balancing for it to compete with the Ha.

 

The blue in the Trifid Nebula is reflection from a blue star.  It is not Oiii emission, so the filter won't pick up much of it.


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#13 jcn

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 02:58 PM

Tried to access the links but dropbox reports item has been removed

 

Yeah, sorry. I had realized I had uploaded the wrong files, and had in fact accidently deleted the ones I wanted and had to re-create them.

 

Try these links:

Ha - https://www.dropbox....ion_2.fits?dl=0

OIII - https://www.dropbox....ion_2.fits?dl=0

OSC - https://www.dropbox....n_2-1.fits?dl=0

 

Sorry about that..



#14 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 03:48 PM

Ok, first trial through Startools

 

- red came out allright

- overdid perhaps the HDR in the nebulae itself

- background shows a bit too much bluish stars imho

- shrinked the stars

- maybe the red colr  bit oversaturated

 

Reduced size jpg to meet the requirements.

 

So putted in the compose module the HA in the red channel and the OIII in the blue and green channels

I did not use the OSC

 

anyhow main point is red and blue came out as i would expect ...

 

Guess i will retry tomorrow cause imho the data is very good

Attached Thumbnails

  • M8 (Large).jpg

Edited by F.Meiresonne, 28 July 2021 - 03:50 PM.


#15 jcn

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 04:24 PM

Guess i will retry tomorrow cause imho the data is very good

 

I'm interested in seeing what you come up with Freddy, you're much better at processing than I am.....

 

 

Here's what I came up with starting over from scratch

 

M8 combine RGB image Lpc Cbg 1 St

 

I am not sure where I went wrong but this is better I think. I skipped the "calibrate star colors" step in APP, because no matter what method I picked, it started going orange/brown on me again. Not as bad, but it was going that way. So the stars are slightly shifted towards the blue I think.

 

As near as I can figure, I must have messed up something in the Ha and O-III extraction, or maybe in the combine RGB step. I am not sure, and I will never know, because I overwrote the original files late last night frown.gif . Shoulda gone to bed.... But I guess it forced me to start over and fix whatever mistake I had made.


Edited by jcn, 28 July 2021 - 04:26 PM.

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#16 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 04:36 PM

Yes, i think it looks better. too  Maybe try to saturate the ha a bit and it will be very ok i think.



#17 jonnybravo0311

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 08:17 PM

Here's a quick edit I did with PixInsight:

 

med_gallery_347158_14910_5071033.png

 

I used both your OSC and Ha data, combining the Ha with the red channel in the OSC. I probably didn't need to, but it was fun to play around and see what trouble I could get into :p


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#18 jcn

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 08:55 PM

combining the Ha with the red channel in the OSC

 

Interesting. I hadn't considered combining the OSC. I had included it just to show that the original captured data was OK, and that my mistake was in processing somewhere.....



#19 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 02:42 AM

OSC only

 

tried not to oversaturate it, but keeping quite some color.

Nice details in the M8 cloud 

Lacks a bit starcolor though, in my attempt to reduce saturation

Put the starfield back, with shrinking and isolate in the superstructure module,( for those who know Startools)

 

Tonight perhaps i try to use the Ha as L and the OSC as R,G,B, but i see i will get them registred first...

Attached Thumbnails

  • M8-session_1_session_2-1 (Medium).jpg

Edited by F.Meiresonne, 29 July 2021 - 06:27 AM.

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#20 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 07:57 AM

Afterall i think this is the best

 

Click below link for better resolution then the jpg

 

https://www.cloudyni...11_18906696.png

 

I used the Ha as Luminance and the OSC as RGB in the compose module.

Course i had to register first the two seperate stacks, did that via Siril.

 

Used a the stretch without any ROI this time

 

The M8 nebulea shows more nebulosity and better detail imho.

bit pinkish yes but well in the color module i chose bi color, something i normally don't do.

Seems that there is still some Ha aroundof M8 and the triffid, showing some starllike ha fields.

 

Maybe a bit too yelowish stars or at least some of them. Stars shrinked and reduced

 

thing is for myself i am aiming on that kind of approach. Shoot an Ha stack and an OSC stack an combine them in processing.

In most cases the nebulosity is dramaticaly increased. IMHO ..

 

I say it again to the OP, this is a really nice stack, fun to process...

Attached Thumbnails

  • M8_Composite2 (Medium).jpg

Edited by F.Meiresonne, 29 July 2021 - 08:02 AM.

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#21 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 08:04 AM

Here's a quick edit I did with PixInsight:

 

med_gallery_347158_14910_5071033.png

 

I used both your OSC and Ha data, combining the Ha with the red channel in the OSC. I probably didn't need to, but it was fun to play around and see what trouble I could get into tongue2.gif

I think that is the best approach Jonny


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#22 jonnybravo0311

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 10:26 AM

Thanks, Freddy. I agree with your assessment. The data was very nice and easy to work with. The only thing that stuck out to me were the stacking artifacts from not getting it framed the same through different sessions. Because of it I ended up cropping out some of the nebulosity in the Lagoon, which was unfortunate. It's why I ended up framing the image like I did - so I could get the Lagoon, Trifid and Webb's Cross while minimizing the impact of the crop overall :)



#23 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 03:42 PM

Yes, there were stacking artifacts cutting a bit on the Laguna nebulae...i noticed it too....had to crop them out.

Would have been nice if it just was a bit more in the middle...just a bit ...


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#24 jcn

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 06:16 PM

I used the Ha as Luminance and the OSC as RGB in the compose module.
Course i had to register first the two seperate stacks, did that via Siril.

 

Based on what you guys were able to come up with, I am looking into how to do that with APP, but so far coming up short. I hadn't heard of this technique before, mixing color and using the Ha as luminance. it looks to be giving better results that straight OSC or HOO. 

 

In most cases the nebulosity is dramaticaly increased. IMHO ..

 

I think what you guys came up with is pretty impressive. 

 

The data was very nice and easy to work with.

 

I say it again to the OP, this is a really nice stack, fun to process...

 

 

Aww shucks, thanks..... If you keep it up, I might almost be tempted to stop thinking I'm just a newbie....

 

tacking artifacts from not getting it framed the same through different sessions

Would have been nice if it just was a bit more in the middle...just a bit ...

 

Yes, yes, I know and I'm disappointed that I didn't pay more attention to the framing the first night. Now I'm stuck with it.... I think I am going to start over though and get it framed better -- I didn't realize at the time just how far the lagoon extended up and that I was cutting so much of it off. And the reason that there are so many bad edges is that the ASI Air, while it will "center" on a previous photo, center is apparently relative..... even if I just move to a bright star to refocus and return to supposedly the same "center" it's off by a bit, not to mention going back a second night. I guess it's a "close enough" thing. 

 

Now I just need to get a non-rainy night to line up with a non-smoky night and all that to correspond with the moon..... Am I asking for too much? In the mean time, I am having another go with what I have to see if I can duplicate what you guys came up with. We'll see,,,,



#25 jcn

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 08:27 PM

OK, here is where I am now. 

M8 session 1 session 2 Lpc Cbg Csc 1 St - re-edit

 

In APP, combined Ha + OIII + OIII, remove light pollution, calibrate star colors, star reduction, stretch, saturation, then in GIMP, crop the bad edges frown.gif , decompose LAB, gaussian blue on the A and B layers, recompose, noise reduction, sharpening. I'm open to suggestions on changing, improving, additions to the workflow.


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