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20x60 type

Binoculars
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#1 TheUser

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 10:31 AM

hello, fellows

 

are there any benefits of 20x60 binoculars (celestial objects) as compared to other types? what is their use case?

 

to those of you who has many types of binos - was it when 20x60 usage gave more advantages?

 

is it astrobinoculars with lowess weight? or also there are some optical special aspects (for celestial observations)?


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#2 photoracer18

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 11:28 AM

The main problem is that 20x  due to the power it is hard to hold steady without some kind of bino mount or resting yourself against something to steady it. 15x is a little better and 10x-11x can be hand held. I used 70-80mm binos in various powers up to 20x over my life until I found my first pair of 11x80s. I have used no other since then for astro use. You can lay on the ground or lawn or use a lawn chair and prop your elbows on your chest and look all night because 11x is not high enough power to mess up the view from wiggling or fatigue. You don't want roof prism, unless that is all you have, due to the light loss from the extra reflections in the prisms. Not to mention you can't generally get them above 42, and in space aperture is king.


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#3 TOMDEY

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 11:28 AM

20x60 is high magnification and is the highest possible magnification hand-held. At that magnification Image Stabilization is essential. Otherwise a tripod or (even better) something like a parallelogram mount.

 

The 20-60 is perfect for Total Solar Eclipse. That's what I use mine for. Also good for night-time astromomy. A recliner chair is then the best approach.    Tom

Attached Thumbnails

  • 54 60 80 Tom's Zeiss 20x60 I.jpg
  • 55 80 Zeiss 20x60 S scatter check flash picture.jpg

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#4 tmichaelbanks

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 11:55 AM

I have a Pentax 20x60 unit (about $200-$250 retail) that I use along with a 10x/12x unit to zero in on objects of interest.

 

Although best with a mount, at 3 lbs. they can be used effectively handheld while reclining back in a zero-gravity chair.  I rest the eyepieces against my glasses and hold the barrels near the objectives.

 

On CN, any mention of the Pentax 20x60 requires an obligatory note that the TFOV is 2.2 degrees, but that field is very flat, eye relief is copious, and the TFOV is wide enough to fit many objects of interest.

 

I definitely would not recommend it as your only binocular.  It really is a specialty piece.


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#5 jprideaux

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 12:47 PM

I have the Oberwerk 20x65ED (close in objective size to 60mm but longer due to higher focal ratio).

 

As for the 20x usefulness, it all depends on what you want to observe. 

Pretty much all 20x binoculars are "straight-through" and that keeps the cost down relative to the smaller binocular telescopes which could get down to 20x depending on objective size and eyepiece used.

 

The higher the magnification, the darker the sky gets relative to the object you are observing so for this consideration, 20x is better than something like 10x.  Personally, I can't hand-hold 20x.  I can barely hand-hold 10x without star jiggle.  So I always mount my 20x65 binoculars.     

 

Since I hate to have equipment that I don't use, I'm always trying to find uses for my binoculars and telescopes and end up using them quite a bit for terrestrial viewing as well as night-time astronomy.   I tend not to use my Oberwerk 20x65ED much in the daytime since it can't focus close enough for lots of daytime targets.  Also the individual focusing eyepieces (although nice for astronomy at infinity) is a pain when wanting to change focus for different targets in the daytime.  I agree that the 20x60 would be a special tool and probably not a person's only binoculars.  It can, though, be a useful tool in one's inventory for wanting that particular magnification and field-of-view.

 

For astronomy, I have spent a lot of time observing the moon with my 20x65 when it is lower in the sky.  I can barely make out that Saturn has a ring.  I can, of course, see the 4 big moons of Jupiter - although you can with most binoculars.  The Messier objects are better at dark locations.   Although, I have to admit that I use my telescope outfitted with a binoviewer with either a 45 degree or 90 degree diagonal more than my 20x65 binoculars for ease of use looking high up in the sky.  I have not yet purchased a Parallelogram Mount or some kind of binocular observing chair to maximize the use of heavy straight-through higher magnification binoculars. So to get the most out of a 20x60 class binoculars, you will need to also solve the ease-of-use issue.  I mainly use mine with a fairly light-weight tripod and an inexpensive fluid head.   I mainly use other lighter, smaller, lower power binoculars in the daytime.  I am helping run a public outreach in a few weeks and plan on bringing my 20x65 for people to use mainly on the moon - and perhaps to see the 4 moons of Jupiter.  The skies where this will be held will not be good for DSOs.


Edited by jprideaux, 28 July 2021 - 02:26 PM.

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#6 Fiske

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 01:00 PM

Some sort of bino chair set up is in my future for use with instruments like the 20x65ED. It is a delight on the Oberwerk p-gram mount, as I'm sure it would be on other p-grams. The 20x65ED is a delight for double stars under suburban skies -- one area where it excels.

 

Fiske


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#7 TheUser

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 01:58 PM

thanks everyone participating. appreciate



#8 Rutilus

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 02:24 PM

Some 35 years ago I had a pair of the Soviet Union made 20x60 binoculars.

For daytime viewing there is certainly better options, but for night use I  had

some wonderful views with them back when my sky was a lot darker than it is now. 

I made and submitted over 10,000 variable star and asteroid magnitude estimates 

with them.


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#9 hallelujah

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 09:41 PM

https://www.cloudyni...0/#entry2346353

 

Stan


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#10 edwincjones

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Posted 30 July 2021 - 05:13 AM

I always wanted the rare Tak Astronomers,

but got the Miyauchi 22x60s instead.

I could never bond with its tunnel like FOV and dim views,

donated them to a local astro non profit.

Just my impression of one 20+ x 60mm.

 

edj


Edited by edwincjones, 30 July 2021 - 04:42 PM.

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#11 hallelujah

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Posted 30 July 2021 - 07:25 PM

Sounds to me like you should have gotten the Tak Astronomers. grin.gif

 

https://www.cloudyni...60/#entry591998

 

https://www.cloudyni...k/#entry1969760

 

https://www.cloudyni...-through/page-4

 

Stan


Edited by hallelujah, 30 July 2021 - 07:39 PM.

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#12 TheUser

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 12:59 AM

Miyauchi 22x60

 

https://www.cloudyni...60-first-light/



#13 TheUser

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 01:07 AM

Pentax 20x60

 

https://www.cloudyni...s-in-the-house/


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#14 Terra Nova

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 12:00 PM

I love my long sought after Zeiss West 15x60s, and I enjoy my old Shrine Manon 16x50s. Both are fine hand held and even better on a tripod. If I’m going up to 20X tho, I want more aperture and a wider field. That’s why I like my older Japanese-made Orion 20x80s that I’ve had for over 25 years. More recently, I was on the fence for two years about getting the Obie 20x65 EDs, but in the end, with my 20x80s I held off. I’m glad that I did because I finally found the Zeiss 15x60s that I had long wanted and been looking for. For me, they’re the perfect 60!

 

PS- Obligatory statement. Two months before I found my Zeiss 15x60s, I broke down and bought a pair of Pentax SP20x60WP binos just to see what the fuss was all about. It was an inexpensive lesson. They were sharp but I disliked the tunnel-vision. I sold them two months later.


Edited by Terra Nova, 31 July 2021 - 12:04 PM.

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#15 Kevin Barker

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 04:31 PM

I also have a pair of Zeiss Oberkochen 15x60 GAT* binoculars. the non B cup version. They work best on a tripod, I mainly use them for terrestrial applications like birding and stargazing up to about 60 degrees altitude. I have used them for several seasonal bird counts for example rather than use a spotter.

They deliver lovely images and yes I see them as a perfect 60 mm binoculars except for the fact they do not accommodate glasses. They have a very wide apparent field of view.


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#16 Echolight

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 06:01 PM

My 20x60 had tiny eye lenses and very tight eye relief.


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#17 hallelujah

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 06:15 PM

My 20x60 had tiny eye lenses and very tight eye relief.

What brand is it?



#18 hakann

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 06:41 PM

I like binos and I had Swarro EL 32, 42, 50 mm but I sold them as I had my Zeiss 2060S.
Bino under 60 mm was nothing for my taste.

I learned the sky in that bino on LaPalma the old way chasin M31, M81/M82, M31, Leo triplets, M27, M57, ET cluster, Carolines rose etc etc so that bino is deer to me.

That bino had been with me ( in Sweden ) to dark places as Oz Sky, Morocco desert, Austria alps, deep in Oregon and OSP several times and many times to LaPalma etc.
It’s not hard hand hold them but I also has a beefy ( but light ) Gitzo CF tripod and steady holder.

I like the ’tone’ in that optics and the 3 mm pupil and FOV perfect to many objects.
I has use it over 2000 meter on ex doubble cluster at LaPalma near 22.0 SQM ( that gets the ’diamond feeling’ big time ) and the solar eclipse 2017 in Oregon ( a WOW ) and one of a major vision was the Jewel box in Australia.
One might not think a small object like that can’t compete with good optics Dobs up to 30”, and I has a Lockwood 30” with Ethos EP - but it shore can.

Bino is great but the bigger it gets complicated and for ’me’ this is the perfect partner.
One here at CN bino forum showed the add in a German E-bay and I got it for spare money and it was like new.

No astro instruments is perfect for all obeservings but to has a 60 mm quality bino is well invested money.

Edited by hakann, 02 August 2021 - 06:52 PM.

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#19 ECP M42

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 09:32 PM

The 20x60 is already an excellent format, undoubtedly, but if I have to use the binoculars only on a stand, because it is too heavy, in that case I would prefer to have a multi-format instrument, with apertures of at least 120mm and with interchangeable eyepieces, angled at 45°.

 

Therefore, I would prefer a 18x56 weighing 1Kg/35oz.


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#20 hakann

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 03:50 AM

Yes a 60 mm bino is more to hold than a 32 mm, but I has try the 32-50 mm Swarros and they has a mind blowing optics and that can easy be seen in daytime.
The Zeiss 2060S has not a perfect to edge optics but at night I enjoy the tone and I don’t mind the end has some coma. Weight if my memory is correct is 1.4 kg.
With the stabilsator the 20X ( as I like ) is not hard to use.
If I observe smaller objects that one need reference stars as ex M78 that I do that in a comfortable position.
If I use the tripod I do that more to enjoy a object for a longer time.
My own experiance on something under 60 mm was not worth it, and I bought first the 60 mm Zeiss then to be more ’portable’ I first bought a 42 mm, then to be really portable a 32 mm and then the 50 mm.
-Bought them new, sold them.
( Now I has a 7X 42 mm for 200 US in the car )
So weight at 1.4 kg is for me not a issue.
I was also into get the Kowa highlander 80 mm and that is a good astro bino but weight and size was to much for get weight/portability working.
To compare a bino as the Zeiss to a cheap China refractor on a bad mount and cheap EP say at 80-100-120 mm is nothing for my taste aswell, but we see thing our own way.
My priority observings now is faint object far away and for that I need big diameter and a good sky.
Unfortlantly in Sweden sky is seldom there ( and now one can’t travell anymore, that days is over for me anyway ) so a quality 60 mm bino is great to has for astro fun.

Edited by hakann, 03 August 2021 - 04:57 PM.

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#21 Echolight

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 07:06 AM

What brand is it?

It’s a K-Mart store brand. Focal Siam Cat Optics. “Night Vision Adapted”. I’ve been experimenting with different eyepieces to make it a 10 or 12 or 15x60. 
Came in a lot from SGW with a little rubber armored 7x50 of the same brand.
The 7x50 is actually quite nice. Compact and lightweight.


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#22 Blue72

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 08:05 AM

Can you guys separate Saturns rings with your 20x binoculars?


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#23 hakann

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 10:33 AM

Easy
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#24 hallelujah

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 03:32 PM

It’s a K-Mart store brand. Focal Siam Cat Optics. “Night Vision Adapted”.

I’ve been experimenting with different eyepieces to make it a 10 or 12 or 15x60.

I purchased a used K-Mart 20x60 Siam Cat, years ago, from a second hand store. thumbsdown3.gif 

Ended up giving it to my neighbor. Also gave him a tripod & tripod adapter.

Never saw him using it.


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#25 ECP M42

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 07:07 PM

Can you guys separate Saturns rings with your 20x binoculars?

At 34x I saw them perfectly separated and perhaps there was even a hint of Cassini, at 25x the evidence is good, at 20x you can still see black between the planet and the ring and I barely saw it even with 18x.

I don't remember ever seeing it with 16x50, but it was actually a 14.8x50, so I don't think I see the separation with 15x. 

 

I have a acuity sight of 14/10 Monoyer or 20/14 Snellen o 6/3 Snellen, in the classic ophthalmic setting (from the optician). 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Visual_acuity


Edited by ECP M42, 03 August 2021 - 07:17 PM.

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