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Takahashi Sky 90 Adjustment and Bench Test

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#1 peleuba

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 11:05 AM

I was fortunate enough to be able to acquire another Sky 90.  Its the very same sample that was discussed in this thread here:

 

https://www.cloudyni...212-tak-sky-90/

 

As I understand it, It was a one-owner scope that was on consignment at an Internet astro-retailer.  A fellow CN member obtained it from the retailer which was local to him on a "try prior to buy" arrangement.   When he used it, he discovered a collimation issue and returned it.  I inquired with the dealer, who is also somewhat local, and made arrangements to purchase it.  If I had not done this it was to be sent to TNR/Takahashi America for a tune-up costing in excess of $500.  To me, I just did not see the value in that considering I am able to do the same things and, perhaps, more then TNR can do...

 

First impressions are the scope is in really good condition.  And its the latest version - The Sky90-II with a fully collimatable lens cell containing 3 collimation screws and 6 centering screws.

 

Upon first inspection on the optical bench, I confirmed the initial reports that that the lens was out of collimation and displayed flaring (coma) off to one side as was described in the thread linked above.  Basically, it reminded me of an out of collimation SCT displaying a similar diffraction pattern. 

 

In preparation for lens collimation, I disassembled the OTA, dewshield and lens cell.  Each painted surface was meticulously buffed then sealed with a high quality synthetic automotive wax.  The OTA is mint with only a miniscule - 1mm paint chip at the finder-scope mount section of the focuser.  The lens is spectacularly clean and required absolutely no work to it.  

 

The retracting dew shield is threaded on to a sliding ring that can be difficult to remove on TAK OTA's.  This one only took slow and deliberate pressure and it about 90 seconds started to unscrew.  I applied a tiny amount of lightweight synthetic grease to the threads to prevent galling and allow for easy removal in the future.

 

I spent about 4 hours collimating and testing the Sky90.  Its in perfect collimation now.  

 

The camera picked up some chromatic effects that are not necessarily visible to the eye.  The overall color correction is quite good for such a fast doublet.  I mean, its amazingly good.  There is some unavoidable  spherochromatism - spherical aberration as a function of wavelength.  Unfortunately this is a trade-off in a doublet that is designed at such a short focal ratio.  To do markedly better, you would need a triplet and at least one of the 6 surfaces of the triplet would have to be aspherized.  The Sky90 is a spherical fluorite doublet.  Its about as good as the design allows.  There are no free lunches.

 

Since I do not need another short focal length APO, I will probably sell this Sky90 and pass the considerable savings on to the next owner.

 

The lens is VERY smooth and only a hint at very minor undercorrection in white and green.  These Ronchi images were taken close to focus in double pass, In single pass, no curvature could be detected.  This is a fine lens and is very similar to one I tested earlier and wrote about on CN.

 

The images below show the current collimation and the overall correction.  

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Collimated2.jpg
  • Green.jpg
  • White.jpg
  • IMG_5400 (Medium) (Small).jpg

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#2 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 11:11 AM

Paul:

 

Nice work.. 

 

Do you have before photos?

 

Jon



#3 M44

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 11:13 AM

Excellent Paul! Thank you for restoring it to it's full potential. 



#4 peleuba

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 11:20 AM

 

Do you have before photos?

 

 

Thank you Jon!   

 

No before photos as the camera and laptop would have gotten in the way as I was making the iterative adjustments then back to the eyepiece to test.  I took photos of the finished product.

 

Here is a photo in the original thread that shows some of the problem:  https://www.cloudyni...-90/?p=11242341


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#5 payner

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 11:32 AM

Good to see you picked this great telescope up and have taken care of the collimation problem, Paul.  I had thought you may do this.  Thanks for the report.

 

Randy


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#6 peleuba

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 11:56 AM

As these things go, this was time consuming, but not difficult.  I work slowly.  Here is a photo of how I create a quick artificial star for testing. 

 

You notice in one of the photos the Sky90 is pointed directly at a TSA120.  The TSA120 is generating the artificial star from a 25µ point source illuminated by a white LED.  I have this placed into a TeleVue 3X Barlow which makes the point source about 8µ in diameter (25 ÷ 3) and its all placed into the focuser of the TSA120.

 

Telescopes are designed to take parallel light and focus it down to a point...   The inverse is also true.  Shine a point source "backwards" through a refractor and parallel light exits the front objective.   This is convenient for testing optics as the two main requirements for an artificial star are:  (1) A point source; (2) parallel light.  CN member Tom Dey has posted photos of the collimator he used when at Kodak.   Its massive and hung from the ceiling.  My TSA120 performs the very same function only on a much smaller scale.  In this instance, the TSA120 is acting as a collimator - a device that emits parallel light.  Its a point source so its in the form of an artificial star.  

 

A good friend uses a Newt with a large Mike Lockwood mirror as his collimator and it allows him to test relatively large telescopes.  The only requirement for the collimator is that the optics (mirror or lens) must be extremely well made as the aberrations are additive to the final result.

 

So, you too can make your own artificial star for testing.  Its important to NOT rely on Ronchi autocollimation to diagnose alignment issues.  Sure it will show them - the bands will be keystoned in appearance.  But its really difficult to determine if its the test setup that's not perfectly aligned or if the error is in the objective lens under test.  This is where the artificial star is the best tool.  I was trying to make this point to one of the posters in the previous thread on this telescope, but my message was not getting through and was lost in the noise.

 

Photos below are of the Sky90 without dewshield exposing the collimation screws laterally on the cell and the TSA120 "artificial star".  

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_5403 (Medium).jpg
  • Test.jpg

Edited by peleuba, 02 August 2021 - 03:31 PM.

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#7 turtle86

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 12:01 PM

Great work Paul!  


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#8 payner

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 01:35 PM

Excellent explanation and appreciate the photos of your bench test set up.

 

Randy



#9 turtle86

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 02:22 PM

Just out of curiosity, which Sky 90 screws did you need to tweak to do the collimation?



#10 peleuba

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 03:20 PM

Just out of curiosity, which Sky 90 screws did you need to tweak to do the collimation?

 

In a SKY90-II there are 9 screws around the perimeter grouped this way:   six screws in 3 pairs spaced 120° intervals and three single screws placed at a 120° interval.   For collimation, you focus on the the paired screws and only adjust the rearward 3 screws in each pair.  

 

A photo of the lens cell is below showing some of the adjustment screws.  I have circled one of the screws I adjusted.   It takes a 1.5mm Allen wrench.  Actually, for best results you need three wrenches all engaged with a screw so you can simultaneously loosen and tighten.  That speeds up the process.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Lens cell.jpg

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#11 BWAZ

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 04:03 PM

Even though my copy of Sky 90 II is perfect out of the box requiring only the clear sky for its full potential under the star lights, I still feel rather relieved knowning some expert among us can do this type of delicate work. 

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#12 hoes

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 04:39 PM

How much pressure do you apply with these centering screws?   I would be fearful of pinching or even chipping the lens if I were to attempt anything like this…

 

Steve   


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#13 turtle86

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 05:11 PM

In a SKY90-II there are 9 screws around the perimeter grouped this way:   six screws in 3 pairs spaced 120° intervals and three single screws placed at a 120° interval.   For collimation, you focus on the the paired screws and only adjust the rearward 3 screws in each pair.  

 

A photo of the lens cell is below showing some of the adjustment screws.  I have circled one of the screws I adjusted.   It takes a 1.5mm Allen wrench.  Actually, for best results you need three wrenches all engaged with a screw so you can simultaneously loosen and tighten.  That speeds up the process.

Great info; thanks so much. 



#14 bob midiri

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 06:52 PM

Excellent thankyou for saving this scope, you are the man. And these photos and explanation should be archived for those who ever need to collimate their own Sky 90 2nd version. Bob


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#15 CHASLX200

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 07:06 PM

Well if i buy a SKY90 i will buy it from the OP. But will shipping throw off it again?  I just remember my nitemare with a Meade 7" ED. I just wont fool with a lens in any way. I  can do Newts and SCT's just fine. There is just more getting a lens on center than turning a screw.



#16 peleuba

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 08:33 AM

How much pressure do you apply with these centering screws?   I would be fearful of pinching or even chipping the lens if I were to attempt anything like this

Very hard to quantify how much pressure.    When I received the scope I found the screws to be too tight in my opinion.   Or maybe they were just stuck from years of never being turned.   I carefully loosened all of them and basically started from scratch noting which screw, when turned did what to the Airey disk and diffraction rings.  This is the benefit of doing this indoors on an artificial star.    
 

You strive for the screws to be tight enough to hold the lens and not any tighter.  You do it by feel.


Edited by peleuba, 03 August 2021 - 08:35 AM.

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#17 gjanke

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 08:54 AM

 

You strive for the screws to be tight enough to hold the lens and not any tighter.  You do it by feel.

Like a Jedi Master.


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#18 CHASLX200

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 06:08 PM

Like a Jedi Master.

Kinda like how you feel for pressure on mirror clips on a Newt. Too tight and we all know what the image will look like.



#19 StarDust1

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 07:07 PM

Great job! Hopefully the collimation will stay.

I had collimated my Sky-90 at the official Tak dealer. It was perfect. Somehow the collimation was off again within months. This was with care use, no bumps, no driving with the scope.

#20 CHASLX200

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Posted 04 August 2021 - 05:50 AM

A Sky 90 is on my buy list if one ever pops up local that i can test first.



#21 bergkamp_

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 02:00 PM

I have Sky 90 Mark 2 NSV. It is super sharp. The thing is that when I put it against FC 76 DCU on magnification on planets.. 76DCU show more details than Sky 90 Mark 2 NSV.. sad..


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#22 chemisted

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 06:25 AM

I have Sky 90 Mark 2 NSV. It is super sharp. The thing is that when I put it against FC 76 DCU on magnification on planets.. 76DCU show more details than Sky 90 Mark 2 NSV.. sad..

Just add the Extender Q 1.6X to the Sky 90.  It is diminutive and makes a difference.


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#23 bobhen

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 07:15 AM

I always hoped that Tak would make another 90mm scope. Maybe a TSA 90mm F6 or so that would be the baby brother of the TSA 120. Or maybe a slower 90mm Fluorite doublet, something around F6.5 or F6.75 that would be more for the visual crowd. A triplet or a slower doublet wouldn’t have the lens de-centering issues of the faster version.

 

90mm apos from other makers seem to be pretty popular, I guess Tak thinks a 90mm would cannibalize their 100mm offerings.

 

Bob


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#24 gjanke

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 12:14 PM

It's a great scope.  I spent a summer with a perfect example that I came by way from the OP. However the observation, from a perfectly collimated specimen, from my eyes was in focus the scope presented false color on bright objects. 

 

That in of itself doesn't put me off but also the use of a 31mm nagler on star clusters and just plain star hopping displayed pronounced curvature  in a good portion of the off center viewing.

 

I was sad when I sold it the scope but was given the chance to buy it back and I passed. There are many other scopes in the +/- 90mm range being sold that are better for visual viewing.

 

Don't get me wrong I really enjoyed my time with this scope but I paid $2100 for the scope and I sold it for $1600 and was offered it back for even less. The OP posters stamp of approval was worth $500 to me. He provides a highly valued service in quality assurance. 

 

Given the chance to get another TAK90 it would have to be 800-900 dollar price point for it even to be given serious consider as a instrument for viewing the sky. 

 

As a collectors item that maybe another case but if you are a you visual observer there are better ways to spend your money.


Edited by gjanke, 18 October 2021 - 05:30 AM.


#25 teashea

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 07:13 PM

I always hoped that Tak would make another 90mm scope. Maybe a TSA 90mm F6 or so that would be the baby brother of the TSA 120. Or maybe a slower 90mm Fluorite doublet, something around F6.5 or F6.75 that would be more for the visual crowd. A triplet or a slower doublet wouldn’t have the lens de-centering issues of the faster version.

 

90mm apos from other makers seem to be pretty popular, I guess Tak thinks a 90mm would cannibalize their 100mm offerings.

 

Bob

FSQ85EDP

 

177259328_10222075383888012_5570989202134789186_n.jpg


Edited by teashea, 17 October 2021 - 07:15 PM.

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