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Need Advice please

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#1 malocchio

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 11:38 AM

I'm 72 , wear glasses , and am looking to buy a nice pair of hand holdable binoculars  solely for stargazing. I'm looking at the Maven C1 10x50  , but a little worried about the FOV.   Also the Athlon Optics Midas G2 UHD  10x50 and possibly the Nikon  7   8x42 , these have a great FOV , but at my age I'm a little worried about the 42mm not getting enough light.... Any advice will be greatly appreciated ! Many thanks .



#2 hallelujah

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 11:54 AM

http://company7.com/.../1050fmtsx.html

 

or

 

http://company7.com/.../0750fmtsx.html

 

Stan


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#3 ECP M42

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 12:02 PM

What matters is the exit pupil, not the aperture (which is typically the entrance pupil of the instrument).

Using a 6x42 binocular we will have a 7mm exit pupil and using a 12x42 we will have a 3.5mm pupil. 

The light flux of the first, is 4 times that of the second.

 

The pupil needed depends on our individual vision and the type of skies under which we observe.

To summarize quickly, under extra dark skies, such as Bortle 2 or 1, we can theoretically take advantage of all binoculars. So 10x70 would be very interesting. Under medium-polluted skies, 10x70s may be useless or only 50% useful. Under polluted and heavily polluted skies, such as Bortle 7-8-9, any binoculars with a pupil greater than 3.5mm are rather useless or under-exploited.

 

For stargazing it is certainly more convenient to have binoculars with independent focus (IF) and generally a 10x50 format is the most recommended.

I would look for APM MS 10x50 ED or other similar models with low costs but excellent performance.


Edited by ECP M42, 05 August 2021 - 12:10 PM.

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#4 TomK1

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 12:40 PM

If you are willing to spend much more to save much more, check out AAOptics refurbished Vortex Razor HD 10x50 binoculars.  There is one in stock.   Admittedly, these are expensive.   But I doubt you'd ever regret buying them if you own a telescope ( a rock steady image comes to my mind because I need no movement to really enjoy binocular astronomical views).  Compare the specs to those you were considering purchasing.   These are very light weight ( very hand holdable for long periods).  And very good optics.  Plus the mechanics and optics are refurbished to new.  Call Vortex before you purchase if you have questions.   


Edited by TomK1, 05 August 2021 - 12:40 PM.


#5 malocchio

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 04:13 PM

All good suggestions, the Fujinons are high quality, but a little heavy for handholding.    One other I spotted was the MAVEN B-1  8x42.... These are currently on sale for $675 , reg. $900.... Great warranty, good reputation and reviews, and a hefty discount at the moment. What do you guys think of this model ?



#6 sevenofnine

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 04:38 PM

Since you stated these binoculars are solely for astronomy then get 50mm objectives no matter what you choose. The choice of manufacturer in high end binoculars is more personal preference than anything else. The light gathering ability of 50's vs. 40ish is noticeable. Good luck with your choice! waytogo.gif


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#7 MT4

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 09:41 PM

Since you stated these binoculars are solely for astronomy then get 50mm objectives no matter what you choose. The choice of manufacturer in high end binoculars is more personal preference than anything else. The light gathering ability of 50's vs. 40ish is noticeable. Good luck with your choice! waytogo.gif

 

I completely agree with the above.

 

Even under my heavily light-polluted skies (much worse than typical Bortle-9), I still can see quite a few more stars in my Fujinon 10x50 than in any of my other 10x binoculars that have smaller objectives.

 

Also, for stargazing, IF binoculars make a lot of sense.  I used to think that CF is better but I've come to appreciate the ease of using IF binoculars for stargazing.  I don't need to tweak the focus at all on my Fujinon 10x50 and Nikon 18x70.  This makes for very intuitive instruments.



#8 iseegeorgesstar

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Posted 07 August 2021 - 09:09 AM

Hello,

 

Since you're looking for a hand holdable pair solely for stargazing the advice I consistently see recommended on this forum is to try the Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX Polaris Binoculars.

 

It looks like theyre out of stock at B&hphoto.

 

https://www.bhphotov..._Binocular.html

 

It appears they're in stock at adorama (however they're listed as fujifilm on there for some reason).

 

https://www.adorama....n1050fmtrp.html

 

Edit: Looks like the first post from Hallelujah already recommended them!


Edited by iseegeorgesstar, 07 August 2021 - 09:11 AM.


#9 ECP M42

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Posted 07 August 2021 - 10:16 AM

however they're listed as fujifilm on there for some reason

"Fujifilm" is the official name of the company that manufactures and sells models named "Fujinon", such as photographic lenses, binoculars, etc.

I think they can both be adequate, as it is to that specific company / product that is referred to, like saying Leica and Ultravid (even if the name "Leica" does not specify any model).


Edited by ECP M42, 07 August 2021 - 10:18 AM.

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#10 nowhere

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Posted 07 August 2021 - 01:42 PM

"Fujifilm" is the official name of the company that manufactures and sells models named "Fujinon", such as photographic lenses, binoculars, etc.

I think they can both be adequate, as it is to that specific company / product that is referred to, like saying Leica and Ultravid (even if the name "Leica" does not specify any model).

For some reason Adorama has categories for both Fujifilm and Fujinon binoculars. Four in the former, eleven in the latter. The 10X50 FMTR-SX is the only one of the Polaris series they list under Fujifilm, all the rest are under Fujinon - even the other 10X50, the version without rubber armor! Could be confusing and lead to people not noticing the 10X50 FMTR-SX (the only 10X50 they have in stock) over in the "Fujifilm" category.

 

Malocchio: You can't really go wrong with the Fujinons optically and materials and build quality are extremely good. Personally I find that a heavier binocular, within reason, is much easier to hold steady than a lighter one. I also prefer 7X to 10X but I'm very much in the minority on that point.

 

Have you tried different binoculars with different AFOV? You might find you're happy with the 50 degree AFOV that the Mavens have. Most people seem to really like a wide AFOV but I've found I'm happy with 50 degrees and don't care much about getting wider than that. I'm the same way with telescope eyepieces. Not sure why since a recent eye exam showed me to have excellent peripheral vision. It must just be personal preference for how the view is presented.



#11 malocchio

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Posted 07 August 2021 - 10:52 PM

I 'll  have to shop around more.... I didn't want to go over $500 , but the ( short lived ) closeout of the Maven B1 8X42 @ $675  was a great deal, they sure went fast. I'll have to try a few sporting good stores and see if weight over 30 oz is pleasant for me. I thank all of you for the great advice, and this forum indeed is chock full of knowledge !



#12 ECP M42

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Posted 08 August 2021 - 04:31 AM

For some reason Adorama has categories for both Fujifilm and Fujinon binoculars. Four in the former, eleven in the latter. The 10X50 FMTR-SX is the only one of the Polaris series they list under Fujifilm, all the rest are under Fujinon - even the other 10X50, the version without rubber armor! Could be confusing and lead to people not noticing the 10X50 FMTR-SX (the only 10X50 they have in stock) over in the "Fujifilm" category.

Who knows who filled out those forms. Maybe an underpaid kid with a passion for computers. I met any and they told me that he was all a copy and paste, but without control and above all without knowledge of the articles described (a bit like on Amazon for descriptions and names).
None of my business, if they don't sell it because of the confusion they have created smirk.gif  

 

PS: do not tell me that you are one of those who are influenced by the majority and who buy an 8x42, because 5 out of 8 of those who answer the topic, they prefer it (?). If you prefer 7x, why should you take 10x or 8x? ... for to be with the majority?

What kind of logic is this? Since most like chocolate, do you feel compelled to eat it even if you don't like it? ... I hope not!  waytogo.gif  


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#13 nowhere

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Posted 11 August 2021 - 10:09 PM

Who knows who filled out those forms. Maybe an underpaid kid with a passion for computers. I met any and they told me that he was all a copy and paste, but without control and above all without knowledge of the articles described (a bit like on Amazon for descriptions and names).
None of my business, if they don't sell it because of the confusion they have created smirk.gif  

 

PS: do not tell me that you are one of those who are influenced by the majority and who buy an 8x42, because 5 out of 8 of those who answer the topic, they prefer it (?). If you prefer 7x, why should you take 10x or 8x? ... for to be with the majority?

What kind of logic is this? Since most like chocolate, do you feel compelled to eat it even if you don't like it? ... I hope not!  waytogo.gif  

smile.gif I'm not a Pierson's Puppeteer fortunately (The majority is always sane Louis...)  I've been influenced by books, periodicals and the online majority over the years - when I start out at something I take the advice offered and see how it works. As I learn more I develop my own opinions and preferences. One of the most important things I've learned about binoculars is how personal they are. The funny thing with the 10X50 7X50 question is that back when I bought my first binoculars at the age of about 12 or 13 all the astronomy books and magazine articles said to get a 7X50. When I went shopping though the only 50mm binoculars at the store were 10X. I always felt like I was doing something wrong by using 10X50s! Nowadays when the default advice is 10X50 I'm using 7X50s because I just like the view better. If anything I seem to be a bit contrarian when it comes to optics. My scope is a 4" f15 achromat and I prefer 50 to 72 degree AFOV eyepieces over the wider ones.


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#14 gwlee

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Posted 12 August 2021 - 12:57 AM

I'm 72 , wear glasses , and am looking to buy a nice pair of hand holdable binoculars  solely for stargazing. I'm looking at the Maven C1 10x50  , but a little worried about the FOV.   Also the Athlon Optics Midas G2 UHD  10x50 and possibly the Nikon  7   8x42 , these have a great FOV , but at my age I'm a little worried about the 42mm not getting enough light.... Any advice will be greatly appreciated ! Many thanks .

At 72, 50mm binoculars are still my first choice for astronomy. My 8x42 comes in third. All have at least 20mm of eye relief, which I consider essential for my eyeglasses. 

 

My 7x50 has 7.5* FOV, and the 10x50 has a 6.5* FOV. The 7x50 is the brightest, and it’s the most comfortable to look through, but the 10x50 goes a bit deeper. 

 

I recommend trying both 50mm and 42mm binoculars to see what works best for you at your observing site. 


Edited by gwlee, 12 August 2021 - 01:11 AM.

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#15 j.gardavsky

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Posted 12 August 2021 - 02:42 PM

I'm 72 , wear glasses , and am looking to buy a nice pair of hand holdable binoculars  solely for stargazing. I'm looking at the Maven C1 10x50  , but a little worried about the FOV.   Also the Athlon Optics Midas G2 UHD  10x50 and possibly the Nikon  7   8x42 , these have a great FOV , but at my age I'm a little worried about the 42mm not getting enough light.... Any advice will be greatly appreciated ! Many thanks .

In 42mm aperture,

I have the Leica Ultravid 7x42 (the first version after Photokina in Köln), and the Swarovski EL Swarovision 8.5x42 (from the first manufactured batch for the product promotion). These both are very nice under the starry skies, especially when you are observing the structures of the Milky Way.

Both of them are nice binoculars anyway, but too expensive, unless you get them for the 2/3 or 1/2 price, like I have got mine.

 

At the low magnifications like 8x,

my preference are the old discontinued 8x56 DOCTER Nobilem Porro II (from the last manufactured batches), which beat on the night skies anything I have had in my hands and on my eyes any time before,

and I have turned my 76,

and I have been using different binoculars, and have tried some more, over 60 years of my life.

 

Best,

JG



#16 Howard Lester

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 06:49 PM

What matters is the exit pupil, not the aperture (which is typically the entrance pupil of the instrument).

Using a 6x42 binocular we will have a 7mm exit pupil and using a 12x42 we will have a 3.5mm pupil. 

The light flux of the first, is 4 times that of the second.

 

The pupil needed depends on our individual vision and the type of skies under which we observe.

To summarize quickly, under extra dark skies, such as Bortle 2 or 1, we can theoretically take advantage of all binoculars. So 10x70 would be very interesting. Under medium-polluted skies, 10x70s may be useless or only 50% useful. Under polluted and heavily polluted skies, such as Bortle 7-8-9, any binoculars with a pupil greater than 3.5mm are rather useless or under-exploited.

 

For stargazing it is certainly more convenient to have binoculars with independent focus (IF) and generally a 10x50 format is the most recommended.

I would look for APM MS 10x50 ED or other similar models with low costs but excellent performance.

Gary Seronik will tell you the exact opposite: Aperture matters much more than the exit pupil.



#17 ECP M42

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 07:32 PM

I'm sure not ... and if he does, he'll tell a lie! smirk.gif

 

 

 

 

ps: your electric bass is beautiful, it looks like light flamed maple ... but is there also the fretboard on the neck or is it smooth?


Edited by ECP M42, 21 August 2021 - 07:36 PM.


#18 MT4

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 07:49 PM

Gary Seronik will tell you the exact opposite: Aperture matters much more than the exit pupil.

 

I went through a series of aperture masking experiments a while back to determine what exit pupil sizes would be good for me at different mags.  You can read about my experiments if interested:

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry11227817

 

One key thing I learned is this:  "Aperture good.  Magnification good/better."   Exit pupil is simply aperture / magnification.



#19 Binobumpkin

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 09:08 PM

the Oberwerk 8x40 Mariner on their website says 8.4 fov. their specialty is binos for stargazing.

 

"that's your bid" -Lee Van Cleef, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

 

whee.gif


Edited by Binobumpkin, 21 August 2021 - 09:09 PM.



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