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Sionyx Aurora info

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#1 Malve

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 09:12 AM

Hello everybody!
I searched a lot online but i didn’t find si much.
I saw a lot of sionyx images but my question is…what about using it in afocal with a scope?
Some of you have a pic or a video of what i could see “live” through a scope?

#2 taylordesign

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 02:53 AM

I finally dragged out my telescope tonight and tried both a Gen 3 monocular (Armasight Nyx-14 Pro 3 Alpha) and a SiOnyx Aurora attached afocally using the Baader MicroStage II adapter. I didn't have much time before moonrise due in part to an alignment issue after setup, so I only looked at a few targets with either monocular. My telescope is in my signature, and I was using the 40mm plossl eyepiece.

 

Visually the SiOnyx is rather disappointing. Even at 7.5 fps it struggles. It does show more than you can see with glass alone, and it does pickup color where your eye would not. There was color in Lagoon nebula tonight, for example. But there's so much noise as to make the view unenjoyable. As a camera it's not much better. Movies are terribly noisy. 1.5s photographs...the longest possible shutter speed...are kind of impressive considering the exposure time, sensor size, etc. But they're poor compared to any serious attempt at tracking/stacking with a DSLR, mirrorless, or astro camera. I'm sure I'll attach the Aurora a few more times, but mainly as a curiosity.

 

The bummer is that I have a feeling the Aurora could be an impressive EAA device if they updated the firmware to include a mode which stacked the view over time. So you turn it on and see something noisy right away. But say you choose a 10s exposure, over the course of 10s the view improves to be similar to a 10s photograph.

 

I should note that with larger scopes the Aurora may do better. I love my telescope but it's "only" an 8" SCT, and there are people out there with massive Dobsonian telescopes. Maybe it would do better in, say, a 20" scope.

 

I know you didn't ask about traditional night vision, but just noting my experience tonight... Visually the Nyx-14 was impressive and enjoyable. I'll use it for serious observation in the future. Photographically the scintillation in my unit rears its ugly head. There's another post in this forum where I describe the issue. My tube is blem free, sharp, detailed, and penetrates the darkest conditions. But it is excessively bright at the eyepiece and also seems to have excessive scintillation. I ended up adding a Nikon 2-stop ND filter at the eyepiece to pull down brightness and scintillation. I'm very happy observing with the monocular using this filter, but my camera still picks up quite a bit of scintillation, much more than the eye. For terrestrial shots it's not too objectionable. But I'm not happy with any of the astro shots tonight. (Then again I might be a bit too critical. Some of the stacked NV astro photographs shown here are incredibly clean. But I've seen NV astronomy videos on YouTube with nearly as much scintillation.)

 

I'll have to mess with camera settings and see if anything brings the results closer to the view with my eye.


Edited by taylordesign, 28 August 2021 - 07:27 AM.


#3 taylordesign

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 03:12 AM

Since you asked for Aurora photos/videos, here's a 1.5s shot of M8 Lagoon Nebula.

 

SiOnyx Aurora 1.5s Shot of M8 Lagoon Nebula
 
And here's a screen shot of the 7.5 fps video I took of same. The screen shot gives you an idea of the noise you see through the EVF.
 
Screen Shot of SiOnyx Aurora Video Frame of M8 Lagoon Nebula

 

I would not recommend the Aurora if your primary goal is EAA. But if you already have one it's probably worth getting an afocal adapter just to mess around with. That said: if SiOnyx would include an astro mode in their firmware and display cumulative exposures in the EVF, I think the Aurora could become a useful and powerful observing tool.


Edited by taylordesign, 28 August 2021 - 03:23 AM.

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#4 Malve

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Posted 02 September 2021 - 08:16 AM

Thank you guys!
I tought it could be a cheap alternative to Intensifiers! 😔

#5 Joko

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Posted 02 September 2021 - 08:57 AM

Thank you guys!
I tought it could be a cheap alternative to Intensifiers!

It's a cheap alternative to eVscope from Unistellar or Stellina from Vaonis.

 

Sionyx is digital like the eVscope and Stellina, not like intensifiers.

It takes pics like eVscope and Stellina, not like intensifiers.

You can't use it for visual observations (you will only see grey lines, or a bit of ugly color on very few DSO). And those grey lines or colors are not real time. So as it's not real time, it should be compared to eVscope and Stellina, not to intensifiers.

 

In a summary, Sionyx has nothing in common to intensifiers in terms of technology and usage. Sionyx is a device to capture images. 

In fact the only real way to use Sionyx with a telescope is to take short exposure pics and to look at those pics through the eyepiece of the Sionyx.

 

Last but not least, this forum is for devices able to have "real time view of celestial objects", which Sionyx can't. Sionyx has no matching criterias to the Night Vision Astronomy forum and IMO should be included in the EAA forum (for digital image capturing device)

 

Please note i was one of the early tester of the Sionyx in 2018 and the prototype of eVscope in 2017. I never judge without testing and do not criticize those devices, i just explain what thery are made for.


Edited by Joko, 02 September 2021 - 09:45 AM.

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#6 cnoct

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Posted 03 September 2021 - 08:07 AM

Real time https://youtu.be/6Ay_wALTzKs @ what appears to be 24 or 30 frames per second, not even the Pro model.

 

Had some of my most memorable celestial views with these cameras.

 

Being full spectrum enabled, they've revealed the world around me in ways I never imagined, never regretted adding these to my equipment bag.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#7 taylordesign

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Posted 04 September 2021 - 06:41 PM

Last but not least, this forum is for devices able to have "real time view of celestial objects", which Sionyx can't.

That's not entirely fair to the SiOnyx. You can view "real time", it's just a terribly noisy and not very useful view for most targets.



#8 taylordesign

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Posted 04 September 2021 - 06:43 PM

Real time https://youtu.be/6Ay_wALTzKs @ what appears to be 24 or 30 frames per second, not even the Pro model.

 

Had some of my most memorable celestial views with these cameras.

 

Being full spectrum enabled, they've revealed the world around me in ways I never imagined, never regretted adding these to my equipment bag.  

Any idea what telescope and eyepiece? Judging from what I saw of Lagoon, I can't imagine my live view of Orion (when I test it) will be that good. Though a 1.5s picture may be similar.



#9 cnoct

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 01:45 AM

IDK but based on the posters only other video, is likely to be an Orion SkyQuest XX16g.
 
The video shows the user knows to adjust the exposure compensation, see how the "gain" drops as M42 comes into view.

 

Any idea what telescope and eyepiece? Judging from what I saw of Lagoon, I can't imagine my live view of Orion (when I test it) will be that good. Though a 1.5s picture may be similar.


From your "EVF capture", appears your exposure comp. is at least null (0.0), try dropping it to - 1.0 or between - 1.0 and - 1.7
 
FWIW: I don't expect your views to get any better than you've decided them to be.


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#10 Joko

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 03:12 AM

That's not entirely fair to the SiOnyx. You can view "real time", it's just a terribly noisy and not very useful view for most targets.

In my understanding a digital live view is made of pics meaning ultra short exposure time with milliseconds (or less) of stacking.

So it's not real time but near real time or quasi real time. Also you can see a latency looking at the "live view" of the Sionyx because it refreshes pics and you can choose FPS, so it can't be real time despite it's pretty close.

 

In 2018 I also had some pretty good results taking pics with the Sionyx and my 16" telescope, as i'm not at home till tuesday, i will post them next week.


Edited by Joko, 05 September 2021 - 03:23 AM.


#11 taylordesign

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 07:31 AM

IDK but based on the posters only other video, is likely to be an Orion SkyQuest XX16g.
 
The video shows the user knows to adjust the exposure compensation, see how the "gain" drops as M42 comes into view.

 


From your "EVF capture", appears your exposure comp. is at least null (0.0), try dropping it to - 1.0 or between - 1.0 and - 1.7
 
FWIW: I don't expect your views to get any better than you've decided them to be.

I did play with exp comp that night but I felt like when I turned it down too much detail/color was sacrificed with the noise. I didn't like the trade offs at any setting.

 

Again, a larger telescope would no doubt change the equation. I imagine lower light pollution would help as well.



#12 cnoct

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 08:34 AM

Yes absolutely right, these SiOnyx cameras can be quite capable in afocal configurations, just takes feeding the 11.4mm entrance pupil with more than a 4mm exit pupil. Such a great disparity is akin to changing out the stock f/1.4 lens for one that is f/4.



#13 ButterFly

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 04:00 PM

I did play with exp comp that night but I felt like when I turned it down too much detail/color was sacrificed with the noise. I didn't like the trade offs at any setting.

 

Again, a larger telescope would no doubt change the equation. I imagine lower light pollution would help as well.

A 30" f/10 will perform just like an f/10 SCT, for some given level of exposure settings.  The f/ratio determines the photon flux at the sensor, not the size of the aperture.

 

Try that SCT with planetaries.



#14 taylordesign

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Posted 06 September 2021 - 07:05 AM

A 30" f/10 will perform just like an f/10 SCT, for some given level of exposure settings. 

That's true but when I think "big scope" I think Dobsonians, and they are typically faster. (Sorry for not being more exact.) If the guy who made the Orion video is using the Orion SkyQuest XX16g then he's at f/4.4, a 2.3ev advantage. That alone might be the difference. Well...that and he's looking at Orion.

 

Too bad I can't easily attach the SiOnyx to the front of the scope like a HyperStar.



#15 cnoct

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Posted 06 September 2021 - 09:07 AM

Too bad I can't easily attach the SiOnyx to the front of the scope like a HyperStar.

 
Or... Turn your current EdgeHD into an f/1.9ish scope with an 85mm Super-Plossl.


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#16 ButterFly

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Posted 06 September 2021 - 01:46 PM


Being full spectrum enabled, they've revealed the world around me in ways I never imagined, never regretted adding these to my equipment bag.  

I'm still waiting for shots of carnivorous plants!


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#17 mosstrooper

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 08:49 AM

 

Since you asked for Aurora photos/videos, here's a 1.5s shot of M8 Lagoon Nebula.

 

 
 
And here's a screen shot of the 7.5 fps video I took of same. The screen shot gives you an idea of the noise you see through the EVF.
 
 

 

I would not recommend the Aurora if your primary goal is EAA. But if you already have one it's probably worth getting an afocal adapter just to mess around with. That said: if SiOnyx would include an astro mode in their firmware and display cumulative exposures in the EVF, I think the Aurora could become a useful and powerful observing tool.

 

I concur, having had it afocal on the 72mm scope last night. The live view was dissapointingly noisy, compared to taking a 1.5 sec exposure. I really wanted it for live view so I could sit and swing my scope around on live view watching it on tablet. I did have it on 30fps so that may have made the live view noiser than say 7.5fps, I will try that out. also the live view might be better in black and white. I will try that also. The eye pupil aspect may also be critical I will investigate that, I was using a televue 18mm delite last night with baader didgiscoping adapter.



#18 careysub

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Posted 31 October 2021 - 03:16 PM

I am considering this though for viewing the... wait for it... wait for it... aurora. For a camcorder providing a cinema of an active aurora this seems just the ticket. If its good for anything else, it is just gravy.

 

Intend to also use it to display on a tablet.


Edited by careysub, 31 October 2021 - 03:16 PM.

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#19 careysub

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:49 PM

If anyone has a Sionyx Aurora Pro and wants to sell it, I am in the market.




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