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Enjoying Your Vintage Extra Wide Angles, While Wearing Glasses!

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#1 SMark

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 02:34 AM

This has come up incidentally in a number of threads, so I thought I would start one dedicated just to this topic.

 

Vintage Extra and Super Wide Angle binoculars almost universally have very little eye relief to work with. So if you needed to wear glasses you were pretty much out of luck. I found a “formula” that has worked with a number of my vintage extra wide angle binoculars such that they have once again become useful to me. Your vintage binocular needs to have 3 things to make this work for you…

 

1. Total eye relief will always be small, so you need to have access to every millimeter your eyepieces give you. The best candidates have eyecups that can be unscrewed to be removed. Some will have rubber eyecups that can be stretched to be removed.

 

2. Then you need the eye lenses to be mounted as close to the top edge as possible. Most vintage extra wides won’t have too many adjustments available, but some will. Take advantage of what you can get from those adjustments, but getting the eye lenses flush with the top surface is key.

 

3. Hopefully after removing the original eyecups, there remains a few millimeters of threads that an O-ring can be stretched over.

 

If you have these 3 things available to you, there’s a good chance for success. Below are a few of the binoculars in my collection that I have had success with. I have tried Buna, Viton and Silicon O-rings, but I much prefer the Silicone O-rings because they tend to be easier to clean, easy to stretch, and they come in many colors. I prefer red, as you can see. Silicone is very soft on eyeglass lenses, and fitting the right size O-ring will prevent the lenses from getting scratched.

 

Starting at the upper left, I use size 322 O-rings with my “Silver Ring” FPO / Bushnell Rangemaster 7x35s. I can easily see the entire 10° FOV while wearing my glasses.

 

Below the two Rangemasters are the excellent Wards 67-7092 (12.5°) and 67-7078 (11°) 7x35s. These two J-B138 binoculars are almost perfectly designed for size 324 O-rings. While I can get the 11° field to fit into my field of view, it is pretty much impossible to get the 12.5° to squeeze into my FOV. But it sure is fun to try!

 

In the middle column I have my J-B52 / J-E32 Sans & Streiffe model 900 (11.5°) and 999 (12.5°) 7x35s. I use metric size 32x4mm O-rings with these binoculars to achieve similar results to the Wards binoculars above.

 

Below the Sans & Streiffe pair I have a Swift Holiday (11°) 7x35 also fit with 32x4mm O-rings. This is a particularly early Tamron made version of the Swift Holiday, and so far is the only version of the Holiday that I have been able to successfully fit with O-rings.

 

Below the Holiday is a Tasco model 410 (12.5°) 7x35, and you would be similarly successful with a Tasco 110 7x35 as well. But again, 12.5° won’t entirely fit, and the Tasco 110/410 has less available eye relief than the Wards 67-7092 or the Sans & Streiffe 999 above. So you will want to have your glasses as high up your nose as possible! It also is fitted with the 32x4mm O-ring.

 

In the right column are all Kowa-made binoculars, and all are fit with size 324 O-rings. The first is a Kowa / Cadillac Supreme (7°) 10x50. Below that are 2 Kowa / Bushnell Rangemaster 7x35s. And finally there is my Kowa / Soligor (10°) 7x35.

 

When I stretch the O-rings onto the eyepieces, I will typically stretch from inside to outside. Then before I stretch it over the outside lip I will twist the O-ring to “tuck it in” as I place it over the eyepiece threads. If done right, this will cause the O-ring to stay in place better. Nevertheless, if bumped, they could still come flying off, so you should be careful with them (but of course, you are already careful with your binoculars!) You can also place a small bead of silicone adhesive over the threads to hold the O-rings in place better, if you like.

 

So what’s old is new again! See if you can fit your Vintage Extra Wide Angle binoculars with a pair of O-rings, and remember why you always loved that wide field of view.

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Edited by SMark, 26 August 2021 - 11:09 PM.

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#2 MT4

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 03:02 AM

I like this thread already, right after reading the title.  Of course knowing that SMark started the thread helped smile.gif

 

Here's my Kowa 7x35 with a 10-deg FOV, all of which I can see with my glasses on thanks to SMark's tips.  Wish I could find some others on SMark's list smile.gif

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry11189792


Edited by MT4, 26 August 2021 - 03:18 AM.

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#3 Corcaroli78

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 04:30 AM

Very interesting!

 

i have a beautiful and compact Seeadler 8x30 WA with 11 degrees that i would like to use more. I will do the test with O-rings

 

Seeadler_2.jpg

 

and i will try the same for the CZJ Deltrintems.

 

Carlos


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#4 DrJ1

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 09:15 AM

SMark:  Thanks for the informative post.  I have a Simmons MasterGuide 7x42 made circa year 2000 that has only a 6.4 degree FoV.  Nevertheless, it is sharp and contrasty and I live with the narrow FoV.  The diopter range was a bit off and I couldn't quite get both eyes perfectly focused (I don't wear glasses).  I bought a plummer's O ring that raised one eyepiece and that solved the problem.

 

Your post has exposed my EWA binocular envy!  I have a dozen 7x35 EWAs ranging from 10 to 11.5 degrees.  One 11.5 degree binoc is the 7x35 Jason Clipper 118, which has disappointing optics.  My best are my two 11 degree Empire SuperSport model 210 binocs, but one unfortunately has a chip in an occular element and I can't find a replacement. My Jason Statesman 138 7x35 11.5 degree is disappointing because its sweet spot is too small.  Which EWAs in your nice collection are the best optically?  Thanks,  Joe


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#5 Newton2020

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 12:16 PM

This is excellent. I'm looking forward to
studying this in more depth and then doing
some experiments on some of my own vintage WA pieces.

Of course now the price of rubber O rings
Will skyrocket! So, THANKS SMARK...

Remember when you could get O rings for
only...

Thanks a LOT!

Now if I can just get this Monocular

properly collimated. XD

Not taking things too seriously,

Phil
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#6 ECP M42

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 03:17 PM

What a beautiful show! ... I like them all very much, but the middle row is very interesting.

 

I stretch the O-rings onto the eyepieces

You are now the silicone professional lol.gif


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#7 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 03:36 PM

Mark:

 

Good stuff. I've used O-rings on telescope eyepieces in the past.

 

I'm one who doesn't need to wear glasses even with large exit pupils but with the classic wide fields, I still struggle to see the entire field.  It seems like a lost cause to me, glad your making it work.

 

"Things turn out the best for people who make the best out of how things turn out." 

 

John Wooden. (High School English teacher and legendary basketball coach)

 

That seems to describe Mark..

 

Jon. 

 

P.S. Mark: How's your project going. The last time I heard, you were half way to your goal of having a pair of 7x35s for everyone in the Atlanta Falcons stadium.  :)


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#8 MT4

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 08:00 PM

I am not sure if classic Zeiss 10x50's are old enough to be called vintage but their FOV easily qualifies as super wide.   (I think there are two versions, one made in West Germany the other in East Germany, with TFOV being around 7.3 or 7.4 degrees for both.) 

 

I've been wanting a pair but the need to wear glasses gets in the way.  Could a Zeiss 10x50 owner comment on whether SMark's o-ring treatment might make the classic Zeiss 10x50 workable for eyeglass wearers?   Thank you.


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#9 MT4

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 08:23 PM

My Nikon 18x70 may not qualify as vintage but it's certainly extra wide angle.   Thanks to SMark's o-ring trick, my Nikon 18x70 is one of my most favorite binoculars and certainly something I would never let go.  I even copied the red o-ring styling which I think looks very nice on the Nikon 18x70 smile.gif

 

 

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#10 SMark

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 01:01 AM

SMark:  Thanks for the informative post.  I have a Simmons MasterGuide 7x42 made circa year 2000 that has only a 6.4 degree FoV.  Nevertheless, it is sharp and contrasty and I live with the narrow FoV.  The diopter range was a bit off and I couldn't quite get both eyes perfectly focused (I don't wear glasses).  I bought a plummer's O ring that raised one eyepiece and that solved the problem.

 

Your post has exposed my EWA binocular envy!  I have a dozen 7x35 EWAs ranging from 10 to 11.5 degrees.  One 11.5 degree binoc is the 7x35 Jason Clipper 118, which has disappointing optics.  My best are my two 11 degree Empire SuperSport model 210 binocs, but one unfortunately has a chip in an occular element and I can't find a replacement. My Jason Statesman 138 7x35 11.5 degree is disappointing because its sweet spot is too small.  Which EWAs in your nice collection are the best optically?  Thanks,  Joe

I have so many... But those in the photo are among my favorites. Which is why I'm so happy to have made them all usable again.



#11 SMark

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 01:11 AM

The picture below is what you want to look for. I really like the way the eye lens is flush with the top. That's what makes all the eye relief usable. Many binoculars have eye lenses that are recessed well below the top, and that makes much of the eye relief useless. I'm reminded of a certain one-of-a-kind binocular that set it's eye lenses many millimeters below the eyepiece tops. I really wanted my Nikon Wide Field 10x70 to work for me, but it was impossible due to the eyepiece mounting design. A real shame. frown.gif

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#12 ECP M42

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 03:43 AM

Side question: among the many you have, there is also a Fully Amber Coated?



#13 SMark

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 12:22 PM

Yes, I have many fully amber coated binoculars.

#14 ECP M42

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 12:53 PM

Yes, I have many fully amber coated binoculars.

A little off topic ... have you ever noticed if the color cast of amber coated binoculars seems more neutral than the other types of coated? 

 

Would you have one that you can throw me across the Atlantic without suffering too much?


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#15 MrZoomZoom2017

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 01:11 PM

The picture below is what you want to look for. I really like the way the eye lens is flush with the top. That's what makes all the eye relief usable. Many binoculars have eye lenses that are recessed well below the top, and that makes much of the eye relief useless. I'm reminded of a certain one-of-a-kind binocular that set it's eye lenses many millimeters below the eyepiece tops. I really wanted my Nikon Wide Field 10x70 to work for me, but it was impossible due to the eyepiece mounting design. A real shame. frown.gif

Hey Mark,

 

Thank you for this thread - you can always be counted on to provide useful and practical information - well done sir waytogo.gif!

 

Have you ever tried to find "D" cross section o-rings?  I have done some googling (is that a valid term for google searching?) and not found a good source yet but have run across a couple of manufacturers that cater to industrial users - just not sure they are interested in selling to the general consumer or in small quantities.  Here is one such company that looks promising:  https://www.prepol.c...roducts/d-rings

 

I only ask because the "D" shape, with the flat/vertical part of the D against the base of the eyepiece area away from the eye, would probably stay in place much better than a standard o-ring since there would be a greater surface area in contact = more grip and retention.  What do you think?

 

Cheers,

Tim


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#16 DrJ1

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 02:00 PM

I have so many... But those in the photo are among my favorites. Which is why I'm so happy to have made them all usable again.

SMark:  Your creative solution has been stored away for future reference.  Thanks again.  It reminded me of a decent EWA, Empire 240 10 degree, that had damaged eyecups.  I searched ebay for microscope eyepiece rubber eyeguards and bought several that looked like they might be the correct size for the Jason 240.  The rubber eyeguards shown on the 240 can be put on two ways, providing options for eye relief.  Because I don't wear glasses (yet), I found this solution worked real well for proper eye relief.  Regards, Joe

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#17 DrJ1

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 02:04 PM

Additional photos of the Empire model 240 with rubber microscope eyeguards.  DrJ1

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#18 SMark

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 12:12 AM

A little off topic ... have you ever noticed if the color cast of amber coated binoculars seems more neutral than the other types of coated? 

 

Would you have one that you can throw me across the Atlantic without suffering too much?

Amber coatings get mixed reviews from me. Generally, I like them, and most of my binoculars that have them are very neutral and provide bright and true images. But there have been a few such binoculars that have underperformed due to (my opinion) the amber coatings. And this is not including the "Gold" coated binoculars, such as the early Pentax porros. I have owned two J-B56 binoculars that seemed to have "amber overload" on the lenses and as such, they underperformed significantly in night sky tests. I also had one J-B146 binocular that also suffered from amber overload that similarly underperformed. In all these cases, the daytime images had an overly warm tone that actually seemed to enhance the image in the bright sunlight, but then performed badly at night. I'm not schooled enough to know if the coatings were applied too heavily or what, but it would seem to be something along those lines. And none of these had UVC coatings as well.

 

Otherwise I now own fully amber coated binoculars from Swift that are J-B45 and J-B26 that are super performers IMO. Also a number of J-B160 binoculars from Sans & Streiffe and Tasco are fully amber coated and also provide very true color images as well. I always enjoy using these binoculars. There are also a number of binoculars that use combinations of amber coated lenses with MgFl coated prisms and such. A few of my Rangemasters are like that and they have very true color presentation as well.


Edited by SMark, 28 August 2021 - 03:08 PM.

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#19 SMark

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 02:11 AM

My Nikon 18x70 may not qualify as vintage but it's certainly extra wide angle.   Thanks to SMark's o-ring trick, my Nikon 18x70 is one of my most favorite binoculars and certainly something I would never let go.  I even copied the red o-ring styling which I think looks very nice on the Nikon 18x70 smile.gif

Very nice! waytogo.gif

 

It definitely works great on mine...

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#20 MT4

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 06:15 AM

Very nice! waytogo.gif

 

It definitely works great on mine...

 

I got the idea around the beginning of the year after seeing a pic of your Nikon 18x70 smile.gif   I can tell you it's made a huge improvement for me, and is the difference between selling the Nikon 18x70 and having it as a prized binocular possession smile.gif


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#21 ECP M42

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 10:31 PM

I now own fully amber coated binoculars from Swift that are J-B45

Thanks SMark, do you also have a picture of this?


Edited by ECP M42, 30 August 2021 - 10:32 PM.

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#22 SMark

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Posted 31 August 2021 - 02:02 AM

Sure. Here are three of these. All three are early Swift Holidays, and all three have similar amber coatings. Though it only says Fully Coated, they are clearly fully amber coated.

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#23 SMark

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Posted 31 August 2021 - 02:04 AM

Here are another identical pair, these both saying "Fully Amber Coated" and are similar to the Swift binoculars above in that regard.

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#24 ECP M42

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Posted 31 August 2021 - 02:30 AM

ooh thanks, great photos! bow.gif  

 

I had seen the Holidays before, but I didn't know they were Amber coated, although it's obvious from your images.

 

But for 1000 whales, I really like that Cardinal! waytogo.gif

 

It has some '70s Swift details, some chic loose knit leather that I don't mind and then it has a bit wider field that fills the heart.

 

Can you throw it all the way here? lol.gif



#25 MT4

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Posted 02 September 2021 - 07:55 AM

Sure. Here are three of these. All three are early Swift Holidays, and all three have similar amber coatings. Though it only says Fully Coated, they are clearly fully amber coated.

 

How is it that these vintage binoculars look so nice and clean?  I'd take them any day over modern roofs.




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