findIPAddresses Expertise to manually locate objects - Deep Sky Observing - Cloudy Nights

Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Expertise to manually locate objects

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Dobs O Fun

Dobs O Fun

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 372
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2021
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 29 August 2021 - 07:11 PM

I am pondering last nights very short session I was engaged in until clouds rolled in. After looking at Jupiter and Saturn I was using Stellarium by hand and was going to target a star to split. To be honest I forgot which one it was, which was about 65-70° and just above Saturn plus or minus 10 degrees.

I got lost in orientation. With a dob everything was upside and backwards. Unlike M13 where there are two stars in proximity, Stellarium showed nothing nearby this other one but with my 18mm there were many.

Here's a run down of my litter:
25mm supplied
18mm Xcel Lx :)
10mm supplied
6mm 68° Svbony :/
5mm Xvel Lx - smiley face TBD

plus my 2x GSO barlow.

I may not have a nice step up to mag at least yet. I am using a torpedo level that has digital readout, it is accurate plus or minus 1-2 degrees. I have no azimuth for the base but I like the challenge of finding objects.

I feel I have a training issue in that what I see in a screen needs to be interpreted upside down and backwards. The proximity of other stars in Stellarium to the object needed to be flipped in my head so I can ID the object. Perhaps it's time to reread LTAO and make sketches of targets before going out.

I know my light pollution doesnt help but that challenge alone pushes me anyways.

I guess star hopping means exactly bbn that.

What are your methods?

Did you encounter an overwhelming unidentifiable sky and how did you overcome it?
  • dave253 likes this

#2 DSO Viewer AZ

DSO Viewer AZ

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 74
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2020

Posted 29 August 2021 - 07:41 PM

Hey Dobs, almost sounds like you are trying to navigate without a red dot finder or telrad? If that is the case, you probably want to get one. I use a digital level as well, but without my finder, I would be just guessing. The beautiful part of a telrad or red dot is that you look straight through, not upside down (which is common on less expensive finder scopes). This allows you to get very close to the neighborhood your looking for. Then the upside down viewing can be overcome by taking note of which way your moving the scope, not what you see in the eyepiece. 
i used Stellarium for quite a while and it’s finder is very close to the telrad image. So measuring on the program can be pretty close to the naked eye through a telrad finder. Then just a little panning around and I find what I’m looking for most of the time. This works well in my bortle 7 skies and even better in dark skies. As you find things in light polluted skies you will come to rely more on the stars you know and can see. This will be very valuable when you get to darker skies and get a bit overwhelmed by the difference in the sheer number of stars. My first dark sky visit with my scope it took me a while to find the “friends” I had come to be so comfortable with in the city. Hang in there and keep trying. You will get it. And if you don’t have a good finder…. There is no better time than now. 
clear skies!


  • ShaulaB, Taosmath and Dobs O Fun like this

#3 vtornado

vtornado

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,080
  • Joined: 22 Jan 2016
  • Loc: Northern Illinois

Posted 29 August 2021 - 08:37 PM

These are tricks I have to find objects in a Red/Gray zone.

 

Get an angle meter and stick it to your scope.  That will get your accuracy to less than 1 degree.

I believe Stellarium can give you the elevation/altitude of object.

You can dead recon the azimuth to around 10 degrees, so if the scope is level you can pan back and forth to find the object.

 

Get a 32mm eyepiece to get a wider field of view, or if you have deeper pockets get a 2 inch 30mm eyepiece to maximize

your field of view.

 

You can make an azimuth wheel to more accurately point the scope.

 

I have sky safari and the display can be made to be the same as the sky, a newtonian, or a refractor with diagonal.

I would be surprised if there was not a similar feature in stellarium.  To get the image on stellarium to match your

newt, turn it upside down (rotate 180 degrees).

 

A 8x50 raci finder is good for heavy light pollution.

 

Binos help  finding some bright asterism near your target with binos first, then you have an idea where to point the scope.

 

Green laser pointer is helpful too.


  • zleonis, Jethro7, HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula and 1 other like this

#4 Jethro7

Jethro7

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,192
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2018
  • Loc: N.W. Florida

Posted 29 August 2021 - 09:30 PM

Hello Dobs O Fun,

I started out much like you, fumbling around the sky, I purchased a copy of "Turn Left at Orion" by Guy Consomagno and Dan M. Davis. This book went a long way in helping me navigate the night skies so much so that I dont need to rely on my GoTo mount to find stuff anymore and this is nice because setting up manual AltAz mount is quick and convenient. The first thing that you need to do, is get to know the Constellations and their main stars.You will not do this in one night. But I will bet that you already know a number of them already. These Constellations and their main stars are the key to finding your Celestial artifacts Nebulae, Star Clusters Double stars ect....I simply look for the Asterisms with in these Contellations, take Sagitarius, it looks like a tea pot with the handle, Pot and spout and  just above the spout there is the Logoon Nebula and up a bit to the right is the Triffid Nebula.  Move again up to the left a bit, this is above the pot "Boom" there is the Omega Nebulae and the Eagle Nebulae and a whole bunch of nice Star Clusters strewn about with in the Constellation Sagitarius, Like M22 that rivals  M13 in my book. This part of the sky is busy because you are looking into the center of our Galaxy. You can draw a line in your head all the way to the star Vega from Sagitarius and there is lots of point of interest along this line. What I am saying is, with practice you will get to know the Constellations and their main stars and these will be your road map and you will learn exactly were to find these Celestial Artifacts.  I also find that  SkySafari on a tablet  a pair of binoculars and a red dot starfinder such as a Telrad will be a big help here.  Incidentally I had the revelation one night when I was using one of those Planet and star locater wheels  and I held it above my head and it started making sense. Over time you will also learn to think in reverse when you look at star charts and what you will see in the eyepiece.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 29 August 2021 - 09:54 PM.

  • Dobs O Fun likes this

#5 Dobs O Fun

Dobs O Fun

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 372
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2021
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 29 August 2021 - 09:43 PM

Hey Dobs, almost sounds like you are trying to navigate without a red dot finder or telrad? If that is the case, you probably want to get one. I use a digital level as well, but without my finder, I would be just guessing.

I have a love/hate relationship with my finder. I hate straddling the dob to find things. I love looking into it and with both eyes open the clarity it has I can still see Jupiters moons. Reading else where I'm looking at a laser light....


Get an angle meter and stick it to your scope...

You can dead recon the azimuth to around 10 degrees, so if the scope is level you can pan back and forth to find the object.

Get a 32mm eyepiece to get a wider field of view, or if you have deeper pockets get a 2 inch 30mm eyepiece to maximize
your field of view.


Binos help finding some bright asterism near your target with binos first, then you have an idea where to point the scope.

Green laser pointer is helpful too.

These are on my list. I believe part of my problem is looking at the scale of the sky vs stellarium...

EPs....yes that too is on the list as well as the laser.


Jethro7...I do have left turn at orion.

I believe I need to spend time looking. I just got disoriented when I saw a formation of stars where Stellarium did not have. That means scale and orientation....

Edited by Dobs O Fun, 29 August 2021 - 09:51 PM.

  • Jethro7 likes this

#6 Jethro7

Jethro7

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,192
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2018
  • Loc: N.W. Florida

Posted 29 August 2021 - 09:52 PM

I have a love/hate relationship with my finder. I hate straddling the dob to find things. I love looking into it and with both eyes open the clarity it has I can still see Jupiters moons. Reading else where I'm looking at a laser light....

Hello Dobs,

 I dont know anyone that likes doing Astro Yoga but it is what it is with a starfinder.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KERP LOOKING UP Jethro


  • Dobs O Fun likes this

#7 The Ardent

The Ardent

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 5,456
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Virginia

Posted 29 August 2021 - 11:00 PM

"Study and practice. Years of it.” 

-Dr Stephen Strange

 

I recommend a RACI finder and a good chart to start out with. 
 

My left eye is my observing eye. So I put the finder to the left of the focuser. It’s a simple matter to move from the finder to eyepiece. 
 

With the chart , it’s easy to aim with the finder. To navigate with the main eyepiece, turn the chart upside down and it will match the eyepiece view. 

Attached Thumbnails

  • F169F45C-92FE-48B0-834A-D64DD9CEABF2.jpeg
  • 2518C7DF-DC17-45D7-9125-552750774CE8.jpeg

  • Jon Isaacs, esd726, payner and 4 others like this

#8 HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula

HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2021

Posted 29 August 2021 - 11:11 PM

These are tricks I have to find objects in a Red/Gray zone.

Get an angle meter and stick it to your scope. That will get your accuracy to less than 1 degree.
I believe Stellarium can give you the elevation/altitude of object.
You can dead recon the azimuth to around 10 degrees, so if the scope is level you can pan back and forth to find the object.

Get a 32mm eyepiece to get a wider field of view, or if you have deeper pockets get a 2 inch 30mm eyepiece to maximize
your field of view.

You can make an azimuth wheel to more accurately point the scope.

I have sky safari and the display can be made to be the same as the sky, a newtonian, or a refractor with diagonal.
I would be surprised if there was not a similar feature in stellarium. To get the image on stellarium to match your
newt, turn it upside down (rotate 180 degrees).

A 8x50 raci finder is good for heavy light pollution.

Binos help finding some bright asterism near your target with binos first, then you have an idea where to point the scope.

Green laser pointer is helpful too.


These are great tips. Some I knew some I didn’t. Very helpful.

#9 HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula

HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2021

Posted 29 August 2021 - 11:17 PM

I have a love/hate relationship with my finder. I hate straddling the dob to find things. I love looking into it and with both eyes open the clarity it has I can still see Jupiters moons. Reading else where I'm looking at a laser light....


These are on my list. I believe part of my problem is looking at the scale of the sky vs stellarium...

EPs....yes that too is on the list as well as the laser.


Jethro7...I do have left turn at orion.

I believe I need to spend time looking. I just got disoriented when I saw a formation of stars where Stellarium did not have. That means scale and orientation....


Last night I was looking for M13. I was using Stellarium. I could see it was below and to the right of Vega but I couldn’t seem to find it. Then I noticed the RA and DEC lines in Stellarium. They have always been there, I just never needed them. But they give a sense of scale. I realized after looking at them I was far too low. And after that realization, I found M13 in less than a minute.

So in terms of scale that may help as well.

Best of luck to you
  • vtornado likes this

#10 Dobs O Fun

Dobs O Fun

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 372
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2021
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 29 August 2021 - 11:28 PM

Thank you all. I like the recommendation about the dead recon from vtornado. That is how I found M13. Got the elevation and panned across.

It's a learning process.

#11 Napp

Napp

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 3,356
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2015
  • Loc: Northeast Florida, USA

Posted 29 August 2021 - 11:46 PM

Here are my main tools along with a chart or app for locating objects in a light polluted sky.  I use the Telrad to either locate using stars bright enough to show or by jumping fields of the Telrad to the general area.  I then use the RACI finder to zero in on a target or the star field around the target.  The Telrad has lighted circles in its field of 0.5, 2 and 4 degrees which make measuring distances easy.  Most atlases and apps include a Telrad field overlay.  You can download free Telrad charts for hundreds of objects.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Dual Mount Finders - small.jpg

  • Dobs O Fun likes this

#12 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 94,476
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 30 August 2021 - 01:36 AM

Hi Mr. Fun:

 

My tools:

 

- Telrad 

 

- 50 mm RACI finder, preferably with an interchangeable 1.25 inch eyepiece with cross hairs. 

 

The alignment of the finder is critical to my methods. The first step is the just center the star in the cross hairs so the scope and the finder are pointed at the same place.

 

The second step is to rotate the eyepiece so that when I move the scope vertically, the star is aligned with a cross hair. This aligns the cross hairs with the alt-az axes of the sky and scope. Without this step, an RACI finder isn't really aligned because normally a finder is mounted at an angle and so up is not up. More on this later.

 

-  Wide Field Finder eyepiece for the main scope.

 

- SkySafari Pro. I setup finder circles in Sky Safari Pro that correspond to the Telrad, the Finder with cross hairs. This means the finder cross hairs, Sky Safari, the scope and the sky all are aligned alt-az.

 

I then look at Sky Safari, devise a star hop and execute the plan. Here's Saturn to the Saturn Nebula (NGC7009)

 

Center Saturn, move left and a little up about one finder field to mag 4 theta Capricorni. That would be my first waypoint. I would identify a few stars on the way.

 

Screenshot_20210829-225937.png

 

The Saturn Nebula is up and to the left, near magnitude 4.5 Nu Cap. (Unlabeled) that would be my second way point.

 

Screenshot_20210829-230809.png

 

I'm now close. The final step is to move right about 1 degree to the Saturn Nebula. I could just use my low power tinder eyepiece. For a more difficult object, since the horizonal cross hair is aligned with Nu Cap, I would identify HD200455 by the three stars to right and the Saturn Nebula will be centered.

 

Screenshot_20210829-231637.png

 

I'd catch M72 and M73 since they're nearby.

 

The important thing is correlating the Sky Safari view and the actual view through the finder. There a several skills involved, planning the star hop, identifying stars and star fields inn the finder, just accurately aligning everything. But the result is very accurate and it's what I use when I'm finding faint galaxies with the main scope at 280x.

 

Jon

 

P.S. The star hopping process would take a minute or two.  Writing this post, a whole lot longer.  :)


  • payner, DHEB, dave253 and 2 others like this

#13 dave253

dave253

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 210
  • Joined: 08 Oct 2010
  • Loc: Australia

Posted 30 August 2021 - 04:26 AM

I’m a dinosaur, growing into the hobby in the days of paper charts and small finders. Now forty plus years later, the RACI 9x50 and SS Pro are my best friends! Jon’s process is exactly mine, and as Ardent suggests, practice. waytogo.gif


  • Jon Isaacs and Dobs O Fun like this

#14 BOSS3128

BOSS3128

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2020

Posted 30 August 2021 - 05:00 AM

As vtornado said, you can use an azimuth setting circle if you eventually wanted to go that route.  I found mine on CN https://www.cloudyni...etting-circles/.

 

I had used the 12" sized circle for my 10" AD10, and sandwiched the circle between the base plates.  The circle is rotatable in relation to the base (does not have to be).  I then cut and taped a piece of metal to the base, and made up a magnetic pointer.

Attached Thumbnails

  • DW.jpg

  • Dave Mitsky, dave253 and Dobs O Fun like this

#15 juggle5

juggle5

    Sputnik

  • *****
  • Posts: 35
  • Joined: 17 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Seattle WA

Posted 31 August 2021 - 02:41 AM

One thing that I've found is that a little preparation can be invaluable, both for locating and recognizing objects.

 

I have a copy of the Pocket Sky Atlas.  I use this to mark the objects I want to observe.  Having everything physically marked on a page makes it easy to match up my general position in the sky, and to help determine what order to see things.  It's much easier to hop from one nearby object to another than it is to bounce back and forth across the sky.  I used to draw directly on the atlas, but I found a better trick: I cut out the sticky part of post-it notes into little arrows to mark objects.  They are very easy to see at night, and are easy to remove afterwards so I can tell when I've seen everything (for now) in an area.

 

pocketskyatlas.jpg

 

Depending on what I am observing, I may research the target a little beforehand too.  Knowing ahead of time if a galaxy should appear stellar or large and diffuse or if an open cluster is sparse or rich can make a big difference in confirming if I'm really looking at the right thing. Looking at photographs or others' sketches can help set my expectations. 

 

I'll often bring extra notes with me while observing. When I was looking at asterisms, I printed a custom chart for each one using Cartes du Ciel; having a chart with the asterism circled ensured I could find exactly the right patch of sky even if I couldn't recognize the asterism.  When I'm looking at multiple stars, I make a quick sketch beforehand based on stelledoppie so I don't get confused with nearby field stars.  Here's an example:

 

multiplestars.jpg

 

When at the eyepiece, I use Sky Safari. Being able to see a circle showing my current field of view and being able to pan and zoom is great!  To match the inverted view at the eyepiece, I just turn my phone upside down.


  • dave253 and Dobs O Fun like this

#16 astrokeith

astrokeith

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,085
  • Joined: 14 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Surrey, UK

Posted 31 August 2021 - 02:57 AM

My observing career has gone through an evolution,

  1. Started looking at the common bright objects - almost no problem finding them
  2. Going to fainter objects but still obvious once in the field. Usually found with just moving the scope around to search.
  3. Going to even fainter or obscure objects. These required matching the EP view of field stars with a chart, or nowadays a planetarium program display (so much easier now we can orientate the display to match)
  4. My latest challenge is to 'see' objects that might be deemed impossible. This requires staring at the field, at high power, for more than 15 minutes. For this I now use plate-solving to position the scope to within an arc-minute.

Against this evolution was the development of goto systems. These have often been described as 'cheating'. But it depends on the observer's aim - hunting down the object, or studying the object itself. (OK many do both!). Learning to star hop and work with field stars etc is a fundamental skill that will nearly always be needed, even with goto.

 

My evolution is the wrong way around when one considers that my eyes are are getting older and much less capable.


  • Dave Mitsky, DHEB and Dobs O Fun like this

#17 Stardust Dave

Stardust Dave

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,361
  • Joined: 15 Jan 2016

Posted 31 August 2021 - 11:09 AM

"When at the eyepiece, I use Sky Safari. Being able to see a circle showing my current field of view and being able to pan and zoom is great!  To match the inverted view at the eyepiece, I just turn my phone upside down."  

 

Why?  SkySafari already provides the orientations "none- horizontal- vert -both" .  Unless I have misread the post.


  • Dobs O Fun likes this

#18 juggle5

juggle5

    Sputnik

  • *****
  • Posts: 35
  • Joined: 17 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Seattle WA

Posted 31 August 2021 - 12:21 PM

"When at the eyepiece, I use Sky Safari. Being able to see a circle showing my current field of view and being able to pan and zoom is great!  To match the inverted view at the eyepiece, I just turn my phone upside down."  

 

Why?  SkySafari already provides the orientations "none- horizontal- vert -both" .  Unless I have misread the post.

 

Good point that this feature is in Sky Safari.  I do use this when using a refactor to flip the view.  For a reflector it just seems simpler to rotate the phone. smile.gif


  • Dobs O Fun likes this

#19 Dobs O Fun

Dobs O Fun

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 372
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2021
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 31 August 2021 - 01:30 PM

I believe I need time to exact a good process. I'm not going to point a finger at light pollution. It is the scope that brings out faint objects.

I found M13 by star hopping. Going from one know star to another. That is what I believe is part of my problem. I dont know the prominent stars and locations. I know Altair and maybe Vega.

I need to take my time and have patience. I know I can find things...

Edited by Dobs O Fun, 31 August 2021 - 01:30 PM.


#20 Keith Rivich

Keith Rivich

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,942
  • Joined: 17 Jun 2011
  • Loc: Cypress, Tx

Posted 31 August 2021 - 08:45 PM

Many if us here can find any spot in the sky, regardless if there is an object there or not. However, we all started exactly were you are now!

 

Get a planisphere and learn the brighter stars in the sky. Once you are comfortable with that learn to find fainter stars on the planisphere using your learned bright stars as a guide. 

 

Telescopically find one of your bright stars and take a look. Now, with your favorite chart (paper or electronic) match the star field with what you see with your chart. In a newtonian scope you just have to rotate the chart to make the stars match. Once matched you are well on your way to star hopping!


  • Astrojensen and Dobs O Fun like this

#21 Voyager 3

Voyager 3

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,470
  • Joined: 20 Jul 2020
  • Loc: Near Bangalore, India

Posted 01 September 2021 - 12:06 PM

In fact some of the guys here can even remember the star patterns at the eyepiece or finder for prominent DSOs ! The power of experience ...
  • Dobs O Fun likes this

#22 Napp

Napp

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 3,356
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2015
  • Loc: Northeast Florida, USA

Posted 01 September 2021 - 12:26 PM

In fact some of the guys here can even remember the star patterns at the eyepiece or finder for prominent DSOs ! The power of experience ...

If you go back to the same object a few times and pay attention to the star pattern it becomes something you will easily recognize.  There have been three novae I have followed this year.  There were star patterns I used from the charts to find them.  After locating them with the charts a couple times the patterns became very familiar.  In some cases I determined different patterns through the eyepiece that were more easily recognized due to star brightnesses or even colors.  I no longer needed the charts for location until the novae became very faint.  Then I just had to learn new patterns. This becomes important when you are trying to locate difficult objects like the Horsehead.  For those difficult objects you have to locate the star pattern and position it in the field of view with appropriate magnification.  Then the work begins to actually find and observe the object. 


  • Keith Rivich and Dobs O Fun like this

#23 Dobs O Fun

Dobs O Fun

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 372
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2021
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 01 September 2021 - 10:53 PM

Well I did make it out tonight. I wanted a fresh look after Jupiter and Saturn.

I located M2 and found it. Tons of LP here but had a few folks confirm the faint fuzzy. Was using my 18mm XCel (67x) and was able to see it better than I thought.

I barlowed it 2x and it was get th ing darker and had to refocus.

Jumping to my 5mm Xcel proved futile for the moment. Having folks out there it's hard to pace yourself.

I did find HD 209375 and was able to see the multiple through the 5mm.

I'm going to start keeping a log by hand.

I'm also getting my EP gaps filled, not because I have to...I want the whole set. :)
  • payner, astrokeith and Keith Rivich like this

#24 Dobs O Fun

Dobs O Fun

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 372
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2021
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 02 September 2021 - 09:34 PM

Final note unless someone chimes in. I feel it is time to finally get an astronomy chair. My patience to locate things especially gets short when things are high and my EPs are above my line of vision and my chair is too short. M2 was up there a bit, my comfort was not.

#25 river-z

river-z

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 442
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2019
  • Loc: Los Angeles

Posted 02 September 2021 - 11:23 PM

You've received lots of good advice on this thread so I'll only add one thing.  If you're going to do some observing in an unfamiliar part of the sky spend 15 minutes or so looking at it with binoculars.  Find all the main stars.  Figure out where one constellation is and where the other begins.  Get a sense for the proportionate distance between the main stars.  Make a mental note of where you think your targets are even if you can't see them yet.  Then once you're comfortable with it get that finderscope on to the brightest star in the constellation and go from there. 

 

The other night I observed some double stars in Lacerta, which was a constellation new to me.  Spending some time with the binoculars really helped for basic orientation.  And yes, the dedicated astronomy chair really helps too, with both the scope and the bins.


  • rowdy388, RazvanUnderStars, davejlec and 2 others like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics