Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

New Meade Diagonal question...

Equipment Meade
  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 10 September 2021 - 10:30 PM

I am getting back in to Astronomy and I picked up this Diagonal used off of Kijiji ( https://www.meade.co...sc-adapter.html ) and it has a little bit of play in it at the part that the 2" eyepiece or 1.25" adaptor goes into.  Not a lot but a little play but enough that I thought you could maybe screw it tighter or something but that does not seem to be the case.  I am just wondering if this is normal or if there might be something wrong with it.  Let me know if you have one if any play at all.  Thanks.



#2 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 10 September 2021 - 11:33 PM

No play in mine. The quality control of this particular line of diagonals appears to be rather hit and miss.



#3 MisterDan

MisterDan

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 796
  • Joined: 20 Jun 2014
  • Loc: Colorado

Posted 11 September 2021 - 12:29 AM

I am getting back in to Astronomy and I picked up this Diagonal used off of Kijiji ( https://www.meade.co...sc-adapter.html ) and it has a little bit of play in it at the part that the 2" eyepiece or 1.25" adaptor goes into.  Not a lot but a little play but enough that I thought you could maybe screw it tighter or something but that does not seem to be the case.  I am just wondering if this is normal or if there might be something wrong with it.  Let me know if you have one if any play at all.  Thanks.

How many 2-inch eyepieces/adapters show that minor play?

 

Are you sure it's assembled correctly?  There's a 1.25-inch adapter (with brass ring and one thumbscrew), a 2-inch nosepiece (installed on the diagonal housing), and a two-piece SCT connector/adapter (or "visual back").  The visual back's collar has two thumbscrews and no brass ring.

 

This image shows the visual back at bottom left.

http://www.weasner.c..._13_Apr_5_5.jpg

 

This is how the entire kit would appear in "SCT mode":

http://www.weasner.c...13_Apr_11_1.jpg

 

-Just wanted to make sure all parts were present and accounted for, and your kit had no "surprises."

 

Best wishes.

Dan


  • wrvond likes this

#4 Starman1

Starman1

    Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 52,360
  • Joined: 23 Jun 2003
  • Loc: Los Angeles

Posted 11 September 2021 - 08:49 AM

I am getting back in to Astronomy and I picked up this Diagonal used off of Kijiji ( https://www.meade.co...sc-adapter.html ) and it has a little bit of play in it at the part that the 2" eyepiece or 1.25" adaptor goes into.  Not a lot but a little play but enough that I thought you could maybe screw it tighter or something but that does not seem to be the case.  I am just wondering if this is normal or if there might be something wrong with it.  Let me know if you have one if any play at all.  Thanks.

And tightening the diagonal's thumbscrews on the adapter or eyepiece doesn't eliminate the play in the eyepiece or adapter?

Or are you referring to a wobble in the eyepiece tube on the diagonal as it is attached to the body of the diagonal?

It's not clear where this looseness is occurring from your description.


Edited by Starman1, 11 September 2021 - 08:50 AM.


#5 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 11 September 2021 - 09:40 AM

How many 2-inch eyepieces/adapters show that minor play?

 

Are you sure it's assembled correctly?  There's a 1.25-inch adapter (with brass ring and one thumbscrew), a 2-inch nosepiece (installed on the diagonal housing), and a two-piece SCT connector/adapter (or "visual back").  The visual back's collar has two thumbscrews and no brass ring.

 

This image shows the visual back at bottom left.

http://www.weasner.c..._13_Apr_5_5.jpg

 

This is how the entire kit would appear in "SCT mode":

http://www.weasner.c...13_Apr_11_1.jpg

 

-Just wanted to make sure all parts were present and accounted for, and your kit had no "surprises."

 

Best wishes.

Dan

Thanks for the responses.  I had just the diagonal in my hand.  The SCT adaptor wasn't attached and I removed the 1.25" adaptor to make sure that wasn't it.  If I take the part that the 2" eyepiece goes into in my hands I can feel it move a little bit.  there is some play between the actual triangle part with the mirror in it (Diagonal) and the part that the eyepiece goes into.  It does not seem to come apart or at least I don't think it does.  It did come with all the parts in the box.



#6 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 11 September 2021 - 09:42 AM

And tightening the diagonal's thumbscrews on the adapter or eyepiece doesn't eliminate the play in the eyepiece or adapter?

Or are you referring to a wobble in the eyepiece tube on the diagonal as it is attached to the body of the diagonal?

It's not clear where this looseness is occurring from your description.

Sorry about that I am referring to the eyepiece tube on the diagonal that is attached to the body of the diagonal.  That has some play in it that I can feel.



#7 Starman1

Starman1

    Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 52,360
  • Joined: 23 Jun 2003
  • Loc: Los Angeles

Posted 11 September 2021 - 10:06 AM

If that part is threaded in, then tighten it as tight as you can--there should be no play at all.

If it is not threaded in, there may be some internal setscrews that have come loose.

In that case, remove the side plates on the diagonal body to expose the small setscrews inside the body of the diagonal that tighten down on the eyepiece barrel

and tighten those setscrews.  If one is missing, you will need to replace it.

 

I am not familiar with the internal construction of this diagonal, but it is either threaded in or tightened with small setscrews.

Hopefully, the former, since it's easiest to fix.

But, do not use the diagonal with the eyepiece tube loose.  It could damage the diagonal.


  • MisterDan likes this

#8 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 11 September 2021 - 10:54 AM

I believe I saw an earlier thread where the owner had the same problem. He opened his up and it had set screws that were stripped, IIRC.



#9 MisterDan

MisterDan

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 796
  • Joined: 20 Jun 2014
  • Loc: Colorado

Posted 11 September 2021 - 12:08 PM

Thanks for the responses.  I had just the diagonal in my hand.  The SCT adaptor wasn't attached and I removed the 1.25" adaptor to make sure that wasn't it.  If I take the part that the 2" eyepiece goes into in my hands I can feel it move a little bit.  there is some play between the actual triangle part with the mirror in it (Diagonal) and the part that the eyepiece goes into.  It does not seem to come apart or at least I don't think it does.  It did come with all the parts in the box.

Cool - thanks for clarifying.

 

Don's note regarding loose (hopefully not damaged) set screws or grub screws is quite likely the issue.  My own 2-inch dielectric is built the same way - nosepiece barrel threads into the diagonal body, and eyepiece port/collar/holder is locked into the diagonal body with small grub screws.  I'm guessing the vast majority of 2-inch dielectric-coated diagonal mirrors utilize the same (or a very similar) design and construction.

 

See photo # 3 for a general view (left side - not the crack indicated by arrows) of an Explore Scientific diagonal housing and the eyepiece holder's attachment to the housing.  The Meade may not look exactly the same (or it may be identical!), but the interface/attachment is likely similar.

 

https://allans-stuff...02-00cf-review/

 

Best wishes.

Dan


Edited by MisterDan, 11 September 2021 - 12:09 PM.


#10 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 11 September 2021 - 03:50 PM

OK thanks for all the info I was wondering about taking the side panel off.  It is not threaded in so hopefully it is just a loose grub screw. I will check that out when I get a chance and get back to you guys.  Thanks again for all the help, and diagrams.



#11 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 12 September 2021 - 07:12 AM

I once tried to remove a side panel on mine. The screws are tiny and easily strip the threads and/or round out the Allen fitting.

I never got it open and ended up with a stripped screw.

If this is a new unit, better to return it for another one.



#12 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 12 September 2021 - 08:47 PM

Thanks for the heads up.  Unfortunately I bought it online used.



#13 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 12 September 2021 - 08:52 PM

Thanks for the heads up.  Unfortunately I bought it online used.

That’s a shame. Always hate to hear about someone in this hobby passing faulty equipment on to others.



#14 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 13 September 2021 - 12:21 PM

I took  the side plates off and I tried every Allen key I could find in the grub screw and non seem to fit either to big or too small.  I have from 1.3mm up and the SAE equivalent in my set and also some older Radio control hex drivers.  I could not tighten or loosen anything with any of them.

 

I checked when I had the sides off and the little play does not allow the mirror to be impacted at all.  So I am guessing that it will still work ok but just be annoying to me.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

I have attached an image of my diagonal with the side plate off.  The other side looks pretty much the same.  Almost looks like the screws are missing but my guess is that they are hallow back grub screws.

meade diagonal.jpg


Edited by Dubreuil, 13 September 2021 - 12:34 PM.


#15 DSOGabe

DSOGabe

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,274
  • Joined: 02 Aug 2019
  • Loc: El Paso, TX

Posted 13 September 2021 - 12:58 PM

I had a similar issue with one that I bought new back in early 2000. The entire assembly that holds the eyepiece loosened up and would spin freely. The good thing was that it was new and I was able to return it for a replacement. Second one did not have that problem. 



#16 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 13 September 2021 - 01:14 PM

Not sure, they look kind of AWOL to me. 

If you were able to remove the side plate screws with no fuss, I suspect a previous owner has been in there and left the locking screws out.


  • Ohmless likes this

#17 MisterDan

MisterDan

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 796
  • Joined: 20 Jun 2014
  • Loc: Colorado

Posted 13 September 2021 - 02:38 PM

They are slot-head screws.  My unit (almost certainly the same maker) has two holes on one side, and three on the other (like the ES unit in the link I noted).  You might check the other side of the housing (remove other side panel) and verify the third/central hole.  It's the only one where the screw head is reasonably easy to see (with flashlight).  The other four holes are deeper and smaller in diameter.

 

My 2mm slot-head jeweler's screwdriver fits all five holes fine, and I can engage all five slot heads.  If you can't "feel" a jeweler's screwdriver "setting" into slots, they may be gooped over or stripped.  My screwdriver inserts about 6mm (about a quarter-inch) before hitting the smaller four screws.  The fifth/central screw is not as deep - perhaps 3.5mm.  The other four screws in my unit are difficult to see, because of their depth, small diameter, and black color.

 

If there's glue/goop, you might try and remove any flakes/debris with a wooden toothpick and some isopropyl alchohol.  The liquid may also lessen any scattering and make the slot heads (hopefully) clearer/easier to see.  If you use a metal pick or tiny screwdriver (don't), you run the risk of fouling/bumming the slot heads and/or threads.

 

Best wishes and luck.

Dan


  • wrvond likes this

#18 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:37 PM

The other side looks looks the same when I take the cover off.



#19 msl615

msl615

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 863
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska

Posted 16 September 2021 - 01:06 AM

I had the same diagonal for a few years and the answers here are right on...those grubs screws are loose. If they were entirely missing, you would be able to remove the barrel. I can't remember if the grubs were slotted or hex-head though. You may need to file down a very small slot screwdriver to a fine head and try to bring those grubs out. Trying to tighten them may not work, but bringing them out would be easier. Then new grub screws for sure, and the internal threads may need to be re-tapped. Very small and fine work, but possible.

The Phillips screws you see there on the other side can be used to collimate the diagonal...a nice feature.

I hope you can get this up and running...it gives good images.



#20 Thomas_M44

Thomas_M44

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 993
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2020
  • Loc: Modesto, CA USA

Posted 16 September 2021 - 01:50 PM

The more I read in this thread, the quality and reliability of TV Everbrite and AP diagonals seems all the more attractive.

 

How much time do we really want to expend trying to fix and patch intrinsically poor-quality equipment?

 

I’d rather save up, buy a higher-quality diagonal, and be done with it.


Edited by Thomas_M44, 16 September 2021 - 01:51 PM.


#21 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 16 September 2021 - 02:32 PM

The more I read in this thread, the quality and reliability of TV Everbrite and AP diagonals seems all the more attractive.

 

How much time do we really want to expend trying to fix and patch intrinsically poor-quality equipment?

 

I’d rather save up, buy a higher-quality diagonal, and be done with it.

I don't know anyone that sets out to buy poor quality equipment. We all get the best we think we can afford and work with that.


  • Ohmless likes this

#22 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 17 September 2021 - 11:50 AM

I am on a budget and doing my best during these hard times to get things used.  Not really working out to well so far.  

I bought a used SCT 6" with finder and old EQ mount, and a Used Diagonal as above.  The scope seems good but the finder wont even move in the holder making all but useless I have taken the two screws out and even with a vice I cannot get the finder scope out of the holder... i can rotate it that is it.  The old EQ mount is well usable at best but it only rotates a small amount left to right for the piece that holds the OTA.  I know very technical.  I have been out of astronomy for about 10 years now.  I contacted the guy that sold me diagonal and he is willing to take it back minus the shipping so that is fair.  Fingers crossed that works out.  I know used is at own risk but I just thought people would be more honest upfront.

 

Oh well live and learn.  I will keep you posted about the Diagonal.



#23 Thomas_M44

Thomas_M44

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 993
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2020
  • Loc: Modesto, CA USA

Posted 17 September 2021 - 12:03 PM

I am on a budget and doing my best during these hard times to get things used.  Not really working out to well so far.  

I bought a used SCT 6" with finder and old EQ mount, and a Used Diagonal as above.  The scope seems good but the finder wont even move in the holder making all but useless I have taken the two screws out and even with a vice I cannot get the finder scope out of the holder... i can rotate it that is it.  The old EQ mount is well usable at best but it only rotates a small amount left to right for the piece that holds the OTA.  I know very technical.  I have been out of astronomy for about 10 years now.  I contacted the guy that sold me diagonal and he is willing to take it back minus the shipping so that is fair.  Fingers crossed that works out.  I know used is at own risk but I just thought people would be more honest upfront.

 

Oh well live and learn.  I will keep you posted about the Diagonal.

Good luck, sincerely.

 

There is very little integrity in the used marketplace, I have found.

 

People pawn-off their damaged or defective miscellany with silent lips to unsuspecting others, it’s become the norm.

 

Usually the reply is something like “it worked fine for me”, “it wasn’t broken when I shipped it” etcetera….


  • wrvond likes this

#24 wrvond

wrvond

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,523
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2014
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 17 September 2021 - 01:06 PM

I am on a budget and doing my best during these hard times to get things used.  Not really working out to well so far.  

I bought a used SCT 6" with finder and old EQ mount, and a Used Diagonal as above.  The scope seems good but the finder wont even move in the holder making all but useless I have taken the two screws out and even with a vice I cannot get the finder scope out of the holder... i can rotate it that is it.  The old EQ mount is well usable at best but it only rotates a small amount left to right for the piece that holds the OTA.  I know very technical.  I have been out of astronomy for about 10 years now.  I contacted the guy that sold me diagonal and he is willing to take it back minus the shipping so that is fair.  Fingers crossed that works out.  I know used is at own risk but I just thought people would be more honest upfront.

 

Oh well live and learn.  I will keep you posted about the Diagonal.

PM me your address. You can have my Meade diagonal. Nothing wrong with it other than I can't remove the case screws. I'll just give my bride one of my Baader diagonals - she'll like the white one. wink.gif

 

And start a thread in the equipment forum about your finder with lots of pictures and we'll see what we can figure out about that, while we're at it. :D


Edited by wrvond, 17 September 2021 - 01:08 PM.

  • MisterDan likes this

#25 Dubreuil

Dubreuil

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 20 September 2021 - 07:57 AM

Good luck, sincerely.

 

There is very little integrity in the used marketplace, I have found.

 

People pawn-off their damaged or defective miscellany with silent lips to unsuspecting others, it’s become the norm.

 

Usually the reply is something like “it worked fine for me”, “it wasn’t broken when I shipped it” etcetera….

I like to have some faith in people.  But I agree there are people out there like that.  But there are lots of honest people out there.  That is exactly what he said about the finder scope "It worked fine for me".  Not sure how that is even possible.  LOL




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Equipment, Meade



Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics