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Topaz Denoise

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#1 cargostick

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 12:56 PM

Looking for anyone with experience with the Topaz programs.  Is it a useful addition to Pixinsight, or is it basically just the same thing we do in Pixinsight, but through AI?  So, in the end, is it worth adding to my software arsenal, and will it show any improvement on top of the normal processing?  Thanks for your experience and input.

 

CS

 

Roger

 



#2 unimatrix0

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 01:19 PM

Looking for anyone with experience with the Topaz programs.  Is it a useful addition to Pixinsight, or is it basically just the same thing we do in Pixinsight, but through AI?  So, in the end, is it worth adding to my software arsenal, and will it show any improvement on top of the normal processing?  Thanks for your experience and input.

 

CS

 

Roger

I sort of stopped using Topaz. I noticed, even on the lowest settings it over sharpens the stars that they lose their shape.  Maybe I just started to get very nit-picky and pixel peeping too much, but he "severe noise" option with the lowest settings just removes too much detail. In other settings I tested, It didn't do a whole lot of improvement.  Surely it can make any image look nice and smooth, but for the expense of details.  Just my 2 cents. I rather have my noise and detail back.    BTW, this isn't only true for Topaz, but also some downloadable action sets for Photoshop. They can be too harsh and there is no milder editing, unless I do it myself. 


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#3 RichieS

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 01:26 PM

I sort of stopped using Topaz. I noticed, even on the lowest settings it over sharpens the stars that they lose their shape.  Maybe I just started to get very nit-picky and pixel peeping too much, but he "severe noise" option with the lowest settings just removes too much detail. In other settings I tested, It didn't do a whole lot of improvement.  Surely it can make any image look nice and smooth, but for the expense of details.  Just my 2 cents. I rather have my noise and detail back.    BTW, this isn't only true for Topaz, but also some downloadable action sets for Photoshop. They can be too harsh and there is no milder editing, unless I do it myself. 

Try removing the stars first and add them back in after, alternatively you could use a star mask.



#4 Midnight Dan

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 01:53 PM

I tired using it instead of PI noise reduction, but was not at all happy with the results.  There is a lot of noise in astro images, which seem to need specialized NR techniques where you have more fine control over what's happening.

 

But ... I DO find it very helpful as a final pass.  I do my NR early in my PI workflow.  But as I do more stretching and enhancing, it brings out some of the "hidden" noise.  When I'm completely done with PI, I run it through Topaz with moderate to mild settings.  It does an excellent job of cleaning up the leftover noise as long as you're not too aggressive with it.

 

-Dan


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#5 JamesTX

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 05:24 PM

Topaz denoise just handles noise reduction and sharpening.  It uses AI to do this.  What that means is that early it didn't work great.. had a habit of destroying stars.  Now.. with the low light mode.. its not bad.  That said, Ive pretty much stopped using it since PI does a good enough job with.

 

Where Topaz denoise really shines (along with Topaz Gigapixel) is old photos.  They do truly amazing work on old, small, blurry photos from like the 1920s and such.  Perfect for old family photos.


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#6 Hobby Astronomer

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 05:57 PM

Interesting that you have discovered this.

 

Topaz AI programs are great.

 

If you are an advanced person the programs are incredibly useful.

 

Some people complain about them.....so it goes.

 

I like that you can get a draft of a narrowband image with only three images.

 

Starnet++ is something you will want to investigate if you have Pixinsight.

 

If money is not an issue I would buy it.

 

HA


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#7 sgtusmc

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 08:53 PM


If money is not an issue I would buy it.

 

HA

Money can be an issue in this hobby? lol.gif



#8 StarryEye

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:13 PM

I also found that Topaz Denoise deforms the stars but you can denoise a starless image created with StarNet++ and add the stars back afterwards. Having stars on a separate layer also makes it easier to do star reduction without creating halos.


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#9 dswtan

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:55 PM

Some recent discussion here:

https://www.cloudyni...ng-on-here-art/


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#10 DogPaws

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:40 PM

If I may 

Before I started using pixinsight I was massively doing images in photoshop.  Topaz AI was a go to solution but not just like that.  I certainly took the time to either remove stars and topaz the starless image on nebulosities.  Another technique was using masks to protect stars and focus topaz on whatever I wanted to denoise.  For instance grainy background...  but the again I was also using mask tools like tony kyper's tk7 luminosity mask tools.  

 

Having integrated pixinsight into my workflows I now rend to do noise reduction on linear data early.  I use many PI techniques to do so.  Then when I get to stretched .. I flip in ps to finish and more often than I can think I will use topaz on a part of an image, a background or depending on the target I will mask and denoise... whatever I need to tweak  at the end of the workflow.  

What i never do is run topaz on the whole thing with stars.  I most likely will be using the low light...   I am also sometimes critical if topaz makes a plastic look when pushed too far.

 

Topaz is just a complex tool like all tools we use.  It has learning curve but in my view it is worth using when used well.

 

as for can it be replaced by PI noise functions... not for me.  I PI denoise early on linear... process the image, and flip in ps.  topaz is always my end of process finishing touch if need be.

two noise reduction technique not the same place in the workflow.  For me not a substitute but different processing.

 

good luck


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#11 LPA

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 11:33 AM

I have and use Denoise 6 regularly for my astroimages. I tried DenoiseAI but didn't have good success with it. I think AI is aimed more for standard photography, not AP. What I do with Denoise 6 is start with a moderately conservative value for overall strength and move all the shadows, highlights, red, and blue sliders near 0. Then I start by clicking on Preview Red mode and move the Adjust Color - Red slider just enough to control red noise. Repeat with Blue, and then click on Luma mode and move the Adjust Shadows slider enough to control that noise. If the shadows slider needs to be greater than 0.25, then I increase overall strength and repeat. I always keep Adjust Highlights near 0. This process has worked very well for me and has given better results than what I could get just using PI.

 

Larry


Edited by LPA, 16 September 2021 - 11:39 AM.

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#12 terry59

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 12:11 PM

I've been experimenting with the PS plug-in version of Topaz Denoise and, like others, find it useful when used in moderation. I just installed Russell Croman's StarXTerminator and will have to try them together on the data I'm currently collecting



#13 Astrojedi

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 12:31 PM

It is an excellent program if you use it properly. Works much better for me than any other noise reduction software including PI. Here is an example. This is a narrowband image at F10 using the EdgeHD 8 @ F10.

 

Denoise.jpg

 

 


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