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New Baader Sundancer II Ha Filter

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#1 John Vogt

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 06:58 AM

Received the latest Baader newsletter and in it they announce their new Sundancer II Ha filter

Looks like a stepped up version of a Quark Combo Chromosphere with a number of enhancements.

 

Link to the Baader site describing the Sundancer:

 

https://www.baader-p...gure/id/111283/

 

John


Edited by John Vogt, 17 September 2021 - 07:02 AM.


#2 james7ca

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 07:41 AM

Thanks for the heads up but that link just leads to an empty shopping cart...

 

But, here is a good link to the Sundancer description on the Baader website:

 

  https://www.baader-p...pha-filter.html

 

-- and a review also on the Baader website:

 

  https://www.baader-p...h-alpha-filter/


Edited by james7ca, 17 September 2021 - 07:51 AM.

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#3 John Vogt

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 08:00 AM

Thanks James, sorry for the confusion!



#4 MalVeauX

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 08:17 AM

So it's a Solar Spectrum etalon inside a Baader branded furnace? Gets support overseas only. Over $3k. Zero guarantee of uniformity?

 

Pass...

 

Very best,



#5 PKH

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 10:45 AM

Have you seen this filter? Maybe a Quark Combo alternative also. Sure is a cute little thing.

 

https://alpineastro....-clear-aperture

 

PK


Edited by PKH, 17 September 2021 - 11:39 AM.


#6 MalVeauX

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 11:49 AM

Have you seen this filter? Maybe a Quark Combo alternative also. Sure is a cute little thing.

 

https://alpineastro....-clear-aperture

 

PK

Solar Spectrum is probably a better bet than a Daystar etalon these days, certainly better than most Quarks of any kind, but they're the same design essentially as a mica-spaced etalon with a furnace at the end of the day. The difference will be quality components and quality assembly and quality testing. But so far, I'm not convinced that any of them have very high quality measures and there's zero standard. Any Solar Spectrum should be a superior option to any Quark, but again, without a uniformity guarantee, it's always, always a gamble.

 

Very best,



#7 AllanDystrup

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 01:32 PM

https://www.baader-p...tions_tipps.pdf

 

Better electrical temperature regulation, better blocking filter protection and the possibility of following fast Doppler-shifted events in the blue wing by micrometer-tilt of the etalon!

But expensive it is (young padwan…)


Edited by AllanDystrup, 17 September 2021 - 01:33 PM.


#8 MalVeauX

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 02:04 PM

https://www.baader-p...tions_tipps.pdf

 

Better electrical temperature regulation, better blocking filter protection and the possibility of following fast Doppler-shifted events in the blue wing by micrometer-tilt of the etalon!

But expensive it is (young padwan…)

It can have all the best everything, but unless the etalon itself has excellent uniformity, then it's really just going to look like a patchy bright and dark result with on/off band zones, just like virtually every mica-spaced etalon that is low quality. Getting them to be equal pressure and equally flat is apparently a really, really difficult quality measure to achieve. Sadly, all these etalons have promises of lots of things except uniformity of the etalon and that's paramount compared to virtually all other parameters. All these etalons, even the expensive high quality (so called, no justification for that honestly) options from Daystar's SE/PE series Quantum (zero guarantee of anything, literally nothing, it's a gamble) nor Solar Spectrum's highest end options are going to offer any sort of guarantee on uniformity. Sadly, all these etalons, all of them, are gambles and almost all of them show uniformity issues. Doesn't matter who makes the etalon and how expensive it is, or what marketing or gimmicks are added. At the end of the day, without a uniformity guarantee or standard, they're all gambles. For every "good" sample someone thinks they can show, the reality is there's people with high end etalons that have lots of problems. It really is disheartening. I'm the least excited to see any "new" etalon product come to market when it offers no standard or minimum level of uniformity quality measure of any kind. There's literally nothing important or promising about a bandpass number and absolutely nothing special about a blocking filter that's 2A or 6A. None of them can tell you or guarantee you the uniformity of their etalon and the finesse. They just don't do enough quality measure to ensure this. It's basically assemble, point at lamp, maybe actually point at the sun to ensure it works, then pack and ship. And I'm not trying to be all doom-gloom about it. Just making sure people realize there are a lot more important things that go into the quality of an etalon system and a name like Baader or Solar Spectrum sadly do not guarantee any thing at all in this market. Like all etalons, sample variation will be huge and there will be a few really great ones and a whole lot of average to poor ones with uniformity issues.

 

Very best,


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#9 Spot On

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 03:13 PM

The one thing that makes me interested in a solar spectrum filter is that they have cooling functionality.

 

I never thought I'd hit that wall but I did over Labor Day weekend, with temperatures in the 90s the daystar could not stay cool enough.  I was only using a UV/IR cut and no ERF though.  An ERF is probably cheaper than a Solar Spectrum!  Plus Daystar service has been very kind to me.



#10 SgrB2

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 03:14 PM

It doesn't look like the Sundancer II is much, if any, improvement over

a Quark and you have to purchase the Sundancer II for 3 times the

price of the Quark to find that out.

 

Cheers,

SgrB2



#11 GUS.K

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 04:50 PM

Looks like they've repurposed parts from a Baader Morpheus eyepiece.



#12 hopskipson

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 07:01 PM

I don't think this is worth the price.  Basically $3300 USD (2810 Euros without VAT) for a Quark. I recently got the RG-18 0.3 angstrom, with a 2" Clicklock adapter, and 4x telecentric for a similar price.  The uniformity is very even, I guess the smaller etalon makes this "easier" to accomplish.



#13 BYoesle

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 03:08 PM

 

Basically $3300 USD (2810 Euros without VAT) for a Quark.

I'm not sure I'd go that far, as the Quark is not given any bandpass specification or additional qualification, whereas the Solar Spectrum SunDancer filter is:

 

Half-width (FWHM) of 0.6±0.1Å at an effective focal ratio of f/30

 

One of the major disadvantages of the mica filters (and heated substrate filters in general) is the tuning temperature lag. This makes filter tuning completely dependent on the observers ability to determine what is on verses off-band. I note the plethora of off-band images posted here and elsewhere.

 

This filter series represents a refinement of the the early and current DayStar T-Scanner ($3100 for a "0.6" A*) tilt-based filters which have a very narrow temperature operating range, and the TEC ability to cool with extremes of weather - such as we recently experienced tin the Pacific Northwest (and presumably will continue due to worsening climate change effects - if not get worse), makes this filter system a serious contender for a near-the-focus filter. This gives the filter a rapid tuning ability identical to tilt tuning and air-pressure tuning enjoyed by air-spaced etalons.

 

* Note that DayStar does not qualify at what f-ratio this FWHM specification is attained at.


Edited by BYoesle, 19 September 2021 - 03:26 PM.

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#14 Spot On

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 12:47 PM

This filter series represents a refinement of the the early and current DayStar T-Scanner ($3100 for a "0.6" A*) tilt-based filters which have a very narrow temperature operating range, and the TEC ability to cool with extremes of weather - such as we recently experienced tin the Pacific Northwest (and presumably will continue due to worsening climate change effects - if not get worse), makes this filter system a serious contender for a near-the-focus filter. This gives the filter a rapid tuning ability identical to tilt tuning and air-pressure tuning enjoyed by air-spaced etalons.

 

* Note that DayStar does not qualify at what f-ratio this FWHM specification is attained at.

Reading the manual for the SunDancer it seems that it doesn't have the cooling ability like the other Solar Spectrum filters.

Nonetheless, the fast tuning is very compelling.  I returned my first DayStar because it drove me nuts waiting for the thing to tune.  It's way more fun visually to tune interactively with tilt or pressure.


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#15 BYoesle

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Posted 29 September 2021 - 08:56 AM

My apologies, you are correct. The Suna series uses the TEC, not the Sundancer.

 

But the advantage of first getting the filter to a uniform operating temp and then being able to quickly tilt-tune remains the key feature. Ideally you would tune the filter via heating to just slightly above the H alpha line, and use a slight amount of tilt to get on-band and be able to view Doppler-shifted events.


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