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Red light becomes blue - what is going on here?

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#1 dmelv

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 11:26 AM

The other evening I tried using NINA for the first time.  Couldn't get it to even give an image

 

All it did was weird out my camera (I think)

 

 

I then shut down NINA and connected my G26 camera again using Astro Photography Tool.

 

(I had been using APT for months now with great success but decided to try NINA)

 

I noticed when I pointed my red headband light toward the telescope while connected to APT... the image produces a BLUE

 

light instead of RED.  what??  unbelievable.

 

Now also, when I tried to stack the 10 subs I shot using APT, there was an error message pop up about

 

the size of calibration frames being different, or channels are different, or something to this effect.  So it stopped my process cold right there

 

also, deep sky stacker would not let me use darks and flats and bias frames I have been using for months with APT. 

 

So I.E. It broke the convenience of using my previous Cal photos when doing my astrophotography as a more streamlined process I have been successful now with....for the last 20 finished photos I have taken

 

(SAD amateur astronomer here)  I am certain I will get over it though

 

 

Since APT when south on me   Now I am using the Orion image capture software which came with my G26 camera (which actually seems to take cleaner photos than anything I have yet tried!)

 

Alas, the blue light is gone with the Orion image capture software.  However, even after returning the camera to factory defaults, when connecting with APT,  it STILL shows blue light on my image for a red light input on my telescope lens.

 

I simply can not get APT to work again for me now.   

 

I also then downloaded the new version of APT to try and rid myself of this anomaly,  you know maybe to reset everything but the Blue light remains....anyone have

 

any ideas for for to try as I am completely stumped here.  I do like APT and would like to return to using this software someday.  software is the devil  



#2 bobzeq25

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 11:34 AM

The other evening I tried using NINA for the first time.  Couldn't get it to even give an image

 

All it did was weird out my camera (I think)

 

 

I then shut down NINA and connected my G26 camera again using Astro Photography Tool.

 

(I had been using APT for months now with great success but decided to try NINA)

 

I noticed when I pointed my red headband light toward the telescope while connected to APT... the image produces a BLUE

 

light instead of RED.  what??  unbelievable.

 

Now also, when I tried to stack the 10 subs I shot using APT, there was an error message pop up about

 

the size of calibration frames being different, or channels are different, or something to this effect.  So it stopped my process cold right there

 

also, deep sky stacker would not let me use darks and flats and bias frames I have been using for months with APT. 

 

So I.E. It broke the convenience of using my previous Cal photos when doing my astrophotography as a more streamlined process I have been successful now with....for the last 20 finished photos I have taken

 

(SAD amateur astronomer here)  I am certain I will get over it though

 

 

Since APT when south on me   Now I am using the Orion image capture software which came with my G26 camera (which actually seems to take cleaner photos than anything I have yet tried!)

 

Alas, the blue light is gone with the Orion image capture software.  However, even after returning the camera to factory defaults, when connecting with APT,  it STILL shows blue light on my image for a red light input on my telescope lens.

 

I simply can not get APT to work again for me now.   

 

I also then downloaded the new version of APT to try and rid myself of this anomaly,  you know maybe to reset everything but the Blue light remains....anyone have

 

any ideas for for to try as I am completely stumped here.  I do like APT and would like to return to using this software someday.  software is the devil  

If any ideas are welcome.

 

Try SharpcapPro.  The histogram will tell you what's actually going on.  Then you can figure out how to fix the other software.

 

I'd bet Voyager would work.



#3 Tapio

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 11:48 AM

To me it doesn't sound like software issue, or it could be driver issue.

I've read many threads of driver issues with Orion cameras.

Are you using native driver or ASCOM (is there one available?).



#4 nebulasaurus

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 12:00 PM

I'd bet Voyager would work.

Unless you can state what is causing his current issue with some string degree of confidence, your are making an assertion not based in fact.  You have eliminated electronics faults, drivers faults and instead blame the issue on 2 well known, like liked and usually reliable software packages, NINA and APT, and that Voyager is miraculously different and superior.

 

In a word - Balderdash.

 

Your love of Voyager is well known, but you are taking it way too far.  Please explain how voyager will fix the issue if your are so sure it will.  Otherwise I suggest you retract the statement.

 

To the OP,  if this is a OSC, the bayer matrix may be set wrong and red pixels are being interpreted as blue.  The Orion software likely has the bayer matrix preset, where I am pretty sure APT and NINA can have different settings for the matrix.  



#5 OldManSky

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 12:06 PM

For the color issue, you may have to set the color setup NINA uses to debayer the image, if the camera's driver doesn't do that automatically.  Do that in Options/Equipment.

For the non-matching file sizes, it's possible the old program was including the black/overscan space in the images and NINA isn't, or vice-versa.  Sometimes that varies depending on if you use the ASCOM driver or a native driver, in both APT and NINA.  You might have to re-shoot calibration frames in NINA.  :(



#6 Mert

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 12:51 PM

No sure, but you might be able to check the color balance in the driver?
To me it seems as if some settings went wrong. Check also in NINA, I believe you can modify these settings nowadays.
And as said above, check your histogram.
Just my 2 :penny: with :shrug:

#7 dmelv

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 01:10 PM

The strange thing is....that I did not touch the Bayer matrix or any settings within any of these software.  The blue light started appearing in APT just after I had connected the camera to NINA.    If the Bayer matrix is somehow set wrong and red pixels are being interpreted as blue when using APT, I didn't change anything to cause this.  It just happened.  Yes the Orion software did "fix" the issue (RED is RED now but ONLY while using the Orion Software...... but BLUE returns again with each try as I shine the RED into the scope just as soon as I connect this camera using APT.   unbelievable  it persists
 
I don't know how NINA could cause my camera to be doing this now (or how Orion Image capture ignores it) but something NINA did seems to have been the beginning of my issue. After this BLUE thing happened, I shot the Heart Nebula with the Orion software and it looks absolutely great..... The really weird thing is the next day I pointed the G26 camera connected using APT at my favorite daytime sanity check object........ it works fine with a nice image shown... although I didn't try to shine my RED light into the scope during this daytime test to see if it is still BLUE.  However, at night when I first saw this issue, I did shine the RED into the scope using the Orion software and it is definitely RED always when using the Orion software.  By the way I am not in a habit of shining the RED into the scope ever but noticed this by accident as my RED head light passed near the edge of the Starizona tray.  The Deep sky stacker produces zero stars when registering subs with the APT RED to BLUE issue.  I forgot to mention this.  When I switched over to the Orion Image capture software the subs show thousands of stars and I had to raise the threshold to 20% to tame this back down to 400 stars.  APT is really hosed now.  Is there someplace I can look in APT to see this RED to BLUE source and type in something to fix this?
 
The really strange thing is that APT has been working wonderfully for me with this very camera for five months now..... with 20 photos under my belt
 
I cant believe the Red to Blue result persists even after reinstalling APT with the newest REV version
 
This all sounds as silly as asking whether your telescope is color, or black and white but it is happening

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#8 bobzeq25

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 01:56 PM

Unless you can state what is causing his current issue with some string degree of confidence, your are making an assertion not based in fact.  You have eliminated electronics faults, drivers faults and instead blame the issue on 2 well known, like liked and usually reliable software packages, NINA and APT, and that Voyager is miraculously different and superior.

 

In a word - Balderdash.

 

Your love of Voyager is well known, but you are taking it way too far.  Please explain how voyager will fix the issue if your are so sure it will.  Otherwise I suggest you retract the statement.

 

To the OP,  if this is a OSC, the bayer matrix may be set wrong and red pixels are being interpreted as blue.  The Orion software likely has the bayer matrix preset, where I am pretty sure APT and NINA can have different settings for the matrix.  

He says NINA and APT don't work.  I suggested he try SharpcapPro, and look at the histogram to see if the camera works with it.  If so, that eliminates driver issues, etc.  Simplest way to eliminate those.

 

IF SCP works and NINA and APT don't, THEN I suggested he try Voyager.  My experience is, if SCP works, so will Voyager.


Edited by bobzeq25, 17 September 2021 - 01:58 PM.


#9 dmelv

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 02:27 PM

I thought about shining the red light into the scope connected to APT in my garage today in daylight but am halfway afraid it will be blue

 

Rod Serlings Twilight Zone 



#10 dmelv

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 02:49 PM

 just tested it again in my garage one minute ago

 

APT                   Red light into scope is BLUE on the preview

 

Orion Capture    Red light into scope is Red on preview

 

 

 

I don't know how to proceed.  I guess I am not supposed to use APT anymore   ha



#11 nebulasaurus

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 03:10 PM

When you connect to the Orion software, are you using Native drivers or are connecting through ASCOM? I'm guessing native drivers.

 

There is only one thing I can see in the ASCOM driver that could have an impact across applications and that is the setting for they X&Y offsets in the Bayer Matrix.  Everything else is application specific.  

 

 

I would still check the Bayer matrix setting in APT.  I believe the the G24 has a GBRG matrix and I think the G26 is the same, which both being Sony chips.  While you may not have changed anything explicitly, something has clearly changed and that needs to run to ground.  I will assume that you are using ASCOM with APT.  Can you post a screenshot of the ASCOM camera settings dialog.  There may be something relevant there that goes beyond the ASCOM interface spec that will give us a clue. 

 

More generally, does anyone know if the G26 is an exact clone of the ZWO or something else? If it is an exact clone then the native ZWO drivers in APT may well work, depending on how the driver identifies the camera.



#12 DogPaws

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 06:47 PM

Well wrong debayer setup comes to mind... your software might have the wrong rgb alignment... 




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