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Comparison with Hubble.

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#1 Borodog

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 07:33 PM

First, I do not claim this to be the maximum possible detail for the aperture; the seeing was mediocre at best, the scope was not quite collimated, this is only 15 and 9 minutes of data, I was probably out of focus, and I am not a particularly good imager or image processor.

 

All that out of the way, I thought it would be fun to compare a couple of my images to the HST at the same image scale. This is my C11 at f/10, which is 4.2X on the ASI183MC, at capture resolution. I would like to encourage others, particularly those with absolutely outstanding images, to give this a try as well and post your results here.

 

gallery_346195_17566_139710.png


Edited by Borodog, 18 September 2021 - 08:04 PM.

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#2 bunyon

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 08:02 PM

When was the hst image taken?
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#3 Borodog

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 08:06 PM

Oh I haven't the foggiest. Just the first Hubble image I found.



#4 Quopaz

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 08:59 PM

Looks like last year, I remember that outbreak up the top and when Oval BA was below the GRS.
I was using a DSLR back then:
021_pipp_lapl5_ap413 - Copy (2).png
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#5 RedLionNJ

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 09:37 PM

When was the hst image taken?

August 25, 2020.


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#6 BQ Octantis

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 02:15 AM

Fun! smile.gif

 

toggle.png

Skywatcher Mak 180, Fujiyama 12.5mm ortho EP, Canon 600D/T3i Live View

 

BQ


Edited by BQ Octantis, 19 September 2021 - 05:27 AM.

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#7 Ittaku

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 02:47 AM

That's a very unrealistic (colour) image from the HST archives too, but the detail and features can't be denied... I just happened to capture the GRS at almost exactly the same spot yesterday, so here's mine.

 

HSTGRS
2021 09 18 1021 5 2021 09 18 1016 2 CK L Jup pipp limit007300 012700 P80ag SAI2g

Edited by Ittaku, 19 September 2021 - 02:47 AM.

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#8 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:59 AM

Sort of the same, but not really. I probably should have used more pixilation.

Tim

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#9 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 09:53 AM

Fun! smile.gif

 

attachicon.giftoggle.png

Skywatcher Mak 180, Fujiyama 12.5mm ortho EP, Canon 600D/T3i Live View

 

BQ

That's a pretty stunning comparison, BQ. I wonder what it would look like if you had no atmosphere to contend with.

Tim


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#10 Borodog

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 10:22 AM

These are great; Itaaku I am pleased to see my image compares pretty well to yours.


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#11 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 11:40 AM

These are great; Itaaku I am pleased to see my image compares pretty well to yours.

Yes, everyone has some nice comparisons. When I first glanced at Ittaku's, I saw his image first and thought it might be the Hubble image. Really impressive work being done by everyone these days. I didn't mean for my reply to demean the intent of your post. It's just the comparison that came to mind when I thought about my images, lol.

Tim



#12 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 11:42 AM

That's a very unrealistic (colour) image from the HST archives too, but the detail and features can't be denied... I just happened to capture the GRS at almost exactly the same spot yesterday, so here's mine.

 

That's really amazing, Ittaku.

Tim


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#13 BQ Octantis

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 04:17 PM



That's a pretty stunning comparison, BQ. I wonder what it would look like if you had no atmosphere to contend with.


Probably not much better. Ironically, Borodog picked a reference HST image from two nights after my best stretch of seeing ever. I'd been chasing the NTrZ storms, and I had a stretch of 3 hours of good seeing. So it was also the longest session I've ever captured.

 

But that perhaps brings up a better comparison. The image detail limit is the edge spread function, which we don't have for both apertures. The next best thing is the point spread, to which we can normalize the images. Here's how they compare:

 

hst2.jpg

 

Of course, theirs cost US$1.9B. And yet with a US$2000 setup, I got this:

 

GIF preview:

post-273658-0-55741300-1598260057.gif

24-bit APNG

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

You'd think they'd have gotten a bit more for their money.

 

BQ


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#14 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 05:09 PM

 

You'd think they'd have gotten a bit more for their money.

 

BQ

Yes, though it does produce stunning images, I do wonder if it's worth the expense over the next best Earth based telescope. Now with the JWST cost being nearly $10B, we'll have that to ponder.

Tim


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#15 Ittaku

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 05:09 PM

That's really amazing, Ittaku.

Tim

Thanks Tim! It also coincidentally happens to be the best planetary image I've ever captured.
 


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#16 Ittaku

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 05:14 PM

Yes, though it does produce stunning images, I do wonder if it's worth the expense over the next best Earth based telescope. Now with the JWST cost being nearly $10B, we'll have that to ponder.

Tim

The HST only had narrow band imaging and the colour images are artificial from just a few tiny narrow bands. The JWST unfortunately will not have ANY visible colour imaging possible. It only has 600nm and above, so deep red upwards. 10 billion dollars and it still can't take a darn decent colour photo (I know they don't care about that, but we do.)


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#17 Borodog

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 05:37 PM

Thanks Tim! It also coincidentally happens to be the best planetary image I've ever captured.
 

It is indeed spectacular. It gives me hope that if I can get my collimation dialed in and get some good seeing I can get to that level of detail. I feel like I'm *almost* there.


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#18 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 06:40 AM

It is indeed spectacular. It gives me hope that if I can get my collimation dialed in and get some good seeing I can get to that level of detail. I feel like I'm *almost* there.

I believe you can. Heck I believe I can, certainly not to that level, but better is what I'm shooting for. And for the record, I think these are the best Jupiter  images I've gotten so far. It doesn't really compare to what you folks are doing, but it isn't a competition to me. I'm just try to better at what I can do, and even if I don't produce anything better with my current setup, it sure is fun trying smile.gif

Tim

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#19 BQ Octantis

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 07:46 PM

That's not all that different from what I get, Tim.

 

1024a.jpg

 

And for what it's worth, I never use Hubble as a reference. The image Borodog posted is the latest available; the most recent press release is about the reprocessing of an image from 2017! If I want a recent reference against which to compare, I consult this forum to see if any of the big guns have posted. If everyone's clouded out, I'll check the ALPO Japan Jupiter section.

 

BQ

 


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#20 Borodog

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 08:44 PM

The idea wasn't to use the Hubble image as a current reference image; rather, at my image scale the Hubble is nowhere near diffraction limited, so the image is essentially to-the-pixel sharp. If you took the Hubble image and did a Gaussian blur on it with maybe a radius of 2, you might get the same level of detail as mine, where as Ittaku's masterpiece is much closer to the Hubble level of detail at the same image scale; you might need only a Gaussian blur of radius 1 on the Hubble image to get to his approximate level of detail. 


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#21 Ittaku

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 09:06 PM

The idea wasn't to use the Hubble image as a current reference image; rather, at my image scale the Hubble is nowhere near diffraction limited, so the image is essentially to-the-pixel sharp. If you took the Hubble image and did a Gaussian blur on it with maybe a radius of 2, you might get the same level of detail as mine, where as Ittaku's masterpiece is much closer to the Hubble level of detail at the same image scale; you might need only a Gaussian blur of radius 1 on the Hubble image to get to his approximate level of detail. 

Thanks, for what it's worth, mine was actually 50% upscaled. Here is the native resolution comparison:

gallery_338887_14764_34717.png

gallery_338887_14764_98730.png

 

There's still really no contest, there is so much more detail from Hubble.


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#22 Borodog

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 09:16 PM

Thanks, for what it's worth, mine was actually 50% upscaled. Here is the native resolution comparison:

gallery_338887_14764_34717.png

gallery_338887_14764_98730.png

 

There's still really no contest, there is so much more detail from Hubble.

I stand by what I said. I put a little secret sauce on your image and Gaussian blurred the Hubble with a radius of 1 pixel. It is very, very close, in terms of detail, in my opinion.

 

gallery_346195_16468_68767.png


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#23 Ittaku

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 09:45 PM

I stand by what I said. I put a little secret sauce on your image and Gaussian blurred the Hubble with a radius of 1 pixel. It is very, very close, in terms of detail, in my opinion.

Not bad, but given the amount we oversample in planetary imaging, you can go down to 1/3 the size for a truly fair comparison, then it looks pretty good. I think that would require a 1.5 pixel radius gaussian blur smile.gif
 


Edited by Ittaku, 20 September 2021 - 09:46 PM.

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#24 BQ Octantis

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 04:37 AM

And for the record, I think these are the best Jupiter  images I've gotten so far.

 

Tim, here's a more contemporaneous comparison to what you're getting. Again, it's in the ball park…

 

apngb-animated.png

 

Maybe just a difference in seeing and processing…

 

BQ


Edited by BQ Octantis, 22 September 2021 - 04:38 AM.

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#25 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 05:25 PM

Tim, here's a more contemporaneous comparison to what you're getting. Again, it's in the ball park…

 

Maybe just a difference in seeing and processing…

 

BQ

Supposed to be very windy here tonight, with our first real taste of cooler weather blowing in, so I hope to be imaging as soon as the wind dies down. I saw your tracking woes due to the wind and I don't need to add to the problems I already have, like Jupiter barely making 40 degrees altitude! 

Tim


Edited by Tim J Fowler, 22 September 2021 - 05:40 PM.



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