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May have to keep what I have due to new pricing...

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#1 Ricky Redshirt

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:09 PM

Bought an 8SE Orange tube back in July, 2018. Have been considering getting a C11. Checked with the Co. I do business with and they have listed the 8SE Orange Tube OTA back in stock for $899.95. I only paid $649.95 3 years ago. The C11 is $2599.99. I'm wondering if this is a sign of things to come or a co. trying to recoup losses due to pandemic? 


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#2 Cpk133

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:23 PM

Thats what happens when you shut down production while simultaneously injecting tons of currency into the system.  If you had your savings in FAANG stocks, you more than made up for it.  If you're conservative like me, you just paid an enourmous hidden tax / wealth transfer called inflation.  The million dollar question is where do we go from here?  Someone like you says "I'm not going to buy it now, or I cant buy it" if that attitude is pervasive, we'll see a big deflationary pull-back.  Its an awful mess because retailers make their money on volume.  The feedback loop goes both ways.  Time to re-open Torrence Celestron and hire the homeless to grind mirrors.


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#3 kbastro

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:32 PM

Don't buy,,, then makers will re-evaluate what they charge.. all the way back to suppliers of materials

 

kb


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#4 carolinaskies

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:37 PM

Pricing right now is at the mercy of the supply-demand cycle for new equipment.  You can still pick up a used telescope far cheaper than new if you watch the classifieds here on CN. 


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#5 Ricky Redshirt

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:47 PM

Pricing right now is at the mercy of the supply-demand cycle for new equipment.  You can still pick up a used telescope far cheaper than new if you watch the classifieds here on CN. 

Yeah, that I know. I am just curious as to the, IMO, the higher pricing. It seems to me on the the verge of price gouging.



#6 rhaskins

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:47 PM

uh, many factories around the world shut down due to Covid. Especially in China. Having worked in a chip foundry, shutting it down and restarting it is a months long process. Anyone that tells you otherwise is not in touch with their inner supply chain :). Chip shortages, hardware (screws, nuts and bolts) shortages, it increases costs as the buyer has to secure supplies now with bigger contracts than before the pandemic.

 

Reality: prices are not going to go down. It is a fish or cut bait situation, your choice to buy now or watch prices fluctuate. FAANG??? In some universe. Let's all go down to the candy store and get that 5 cent hersey candybar.

 

Rick'


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#7 Brent Campbell

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:04 PM

Shipping or lack Therof plus the pandemic is one reason the worlds supply chain is in a mess right now.  A few thoughts.

 

1) wait until spring.  With vaccinations worldwide, plus some time, plus the warmer weather, hopefully things will get back to some sorta normal.  Prices might come down or your wages might come up.  Right now there are price spikes and shortages which cannot last forever.
 

2) if I’m playing the waiting game I check prices every day until I see the sale I want.  
 

3) consider used.  Lots of scopes were sold during the pandemic.  Your deal is out there.  Good luck.



#8 TOMDEY

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:07 PM

Anything that disrupts commerce results in losses for everyone. And commerce had been and is still terribly disrupted. For some reasons... the powers that be seem to completely ignore this simple fact.    Tom


Edited by TOMDEY, 20 September 2021 - 05:58 AM.

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#9 SandyHouTex

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:09 PM

Thats what happens when you shut down production while simultaneously injecting tons of currency into the system.  If you had your savings in FAANG stocks, you more than made up for it.  If you're conservative like me, you just paid an enourmous hidden tax / wealth transfer called inflation.  The million dollar question is where do we go from here?  Someone like you says "I'm not going to buy it now, or I cant buy it" if that attitude is pervasive, we'll see a big deflationary pull-back.  Its an awful mess because retailers make their money on volume.  The feedback loop goes both ways.  Time to re-open Torrence Celestron and hire the homeless to grind mirrors.

FAANG stocks?


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#10 Echolight

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:11 PM

Price increases are not limited to telescopes.



#11 RichA

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:12 PM

Bought an 8SE Orange tube back in July, 2018. Have been considering getting a C11. Checked with the Co. I do business with and they have listed the 8SE Orange Tube OTA back in stock for $899.95. I only paid $649.95 3 years ago. The C11 is $2599.99. I'm wondering if this is a sign of things to come or a co. trying to recoup losses due to pandemic? 

Scopes sold during the pandemic.  This is shortage and hence increased cost-driven.


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#12 teashea

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:15 PM

Bought an 8SE Orange tube back in July, 2018. Have been considering getting a C11. Checked with the Co. I do business with and they have listed the 8SE Orange Tube OTA back in stock for $899.95. I only paid $649.95 3 years ago. The C11 is $2599.99. I'm wondering if this is a sign of things to come or a co. trying to recoup losses due to pandemic? 

supply and demand


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#13 teashea

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:16 PM

Don't buy,,, then makers will re-evaluate what they charge.. all the way back to suppliers of materials

 

kb

Yes - that is the way it works.


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#14 teashea

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:20 PM

Shipping or lack Therof plus the pandemic is one reason the worlds supply chain is in a mess right now.  A few thoughts.

 

1) wait until spring.  With vaccinations worldwide, plus some time, plus the warmer weather, hopefully things will get back to some sorta normal.  Prices might come down or your wages might come up.  Right now there are price spikes and shortages which cannot last forever.
 

2) if I’m playing the waiting game I check prices every day until I see the sale I want.  
 

3) consider used.  Lots of scopes were sold during the pandemic.  Your deal is out there.  Good luck.

The problem is that producing manufactured goods is not like turning a faucet on and off.  The whole supply chain must be taken into consideration.  In addition, the quality astro product makers have very limited capacity.  They cannot really increase capacity.  So what they can produce has to go toward meeting current demand and the large backlog of demand.  It will take years before some high quality telescopes and mounts are back in regular stock.


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#15 teashea

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:22 PM

FAANG stocks?

The five FAANG stocks include Facebook, Inc. (NASDAQ: FB), e-commerce behemoth Amazon.com, Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN), tech giant Apple Inc. (NASDAQ: AAPL), on-demand streaming service provider Netflix, Inc. (NASDAQ: NFLX), and the internet search and cloud computing leader Alphabet Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOGL).


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#16 Oyaji

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:46 PM

Pricing right now is at the mercy of the supply-demand cycle for new equipment.  You can still pick up a used telescope far cheaper than new if you watch the classifieds here on CN. 

Or on Astromart, where there's a barely used C8 Edge for sale right now.  If I didn't have my Mewlon 180, I'd jump on it.  


Edited by Oyaji, 19 September 2021 - 08:03 PM.

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#17 The Ardent

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 08:15 PM

No one in your astronomy club has a used one to sell? 

 

That’s how I bought a C11 
 

Bought an 8SE Orange tube back in July, 2018. Have been considering getting a C11. Checked with the Co. I do business with and they have listed the 8SE Orange Tube OTA back in stock for $899.95. I only paid $649.95 3 years ago. The C11 is $2599.99. I'm wondering if this is a sign of things to come or a co. trying to recoup losses due to pandemic? 



#18 SandyHouTex

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 09:04 PM

The five FAANG stocks include Facebook, Inc. (NASDAQ: FB), e-commerce behemoth Amazon.com, Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN), tech giant Apple Inc. (NASDAQ: AAPL), on-demand streaming service provider Netflix, Inc. (NASDAQ: NFLX), and the internet search and cloud computing leader Alphabet Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOGL).

Thanks.  I never heard them referred to that way.


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#19 grif 678

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 09:24 PM

Well, even at a higher price, if you can get free shipping, that means a lot. If you could find a mint C-11 cheaper from a person, the shipping charges would probably make it cost more than the new one. I ordered a part for my lawnmower last week, it cost only $12, about the size of a pocket knife, and the shipping was $30, so it cost me $42 for a small piece of metal.


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#20 rhaskins

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 07:02 AM

What very well may happen is the sales, finance and marketing departments get together and look at margins. It is entirely conceivable that they will cull out less profitable scopes and keep higher margin, longer backlog scopes as that will bring in more revenue and profit in the short term to mid term. They can "create" demand for them by not manufacturing the less expensive stuff. It is done all the time, think AP. High demand, low output, high cost to end user. And, yes, that model applies to GSO also. Altruism is not a concept taught in business school.

 

I am skeptical of prices going down, that is just not baked into any price structure I have ever seen. While your corn flakes may cost the same as two years ago, the package size and weight have shrunk. If a lot of competitors enter the market offering similar wares and the market demand is great, then cost can come down. That is not really indicated by the shrinkage in the astro market. Think Meade - Orion, and how many re-branded scopes and mounts there are. The actual suppliers are shrinking.

 

That there is your full 2 cents today.

 

Rick


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#21 Ricky Redshirt

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 07:32 AM

No one in your astronomy club has a used one to sell? 

 

That’s how I bought a C11 
 

Not a  member of a club. Besides, regardless, I will by one new vs. used when the time comes. Thanks for all the replies.


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#22 Cpk133

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 08:19 AM

What very well may happen is the sales, finance and marketing departments get together and look at margins. It is entirely conceivable that they will cull out less profitable scopes and keep higher margin, longer backlog scopes as that will bring in more revenue and profit in the short term to mid term. They can "create" demand for them by not manufacturing the less expensive stuff. It is done all the time, think AP. High demand, low output, high cost to end user. And, yes, that model applies to GSO also. Altruism is not a concept taught in business school.

 

I am skeptical of prices going down, that is just not baked into any price structure I have ever seen. While your corn flakes may cost the same as two years ago, the package size and weight have shrunk. If a lot of competitors enter the market offering similar wares and the market demand is great, then cost can come down. That is not really indicated by the shrinkage in the astro market. Think Meade - Orion, and how many re-branded scopes and mounts there are. The actual suppliers are shrinking.

 

That there is your full 2 cents today.

 

Rick

Case in point, automotive chip shortage, you think were building the economy base models that average mom n pop buy?  

100% build the highest margin product.



#23 rhaskins

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 09:21 AM

To further that, Intel basically moved all/most of their chip foundries to build on demand in China. Now with the chip shortage and rising prices guess who is building chip foundries back in the USA? Anyone here think they are going to reduce the prices when they come online in 2024 to 2025?

 

(If you said yes, I have this bridge in Brooklyn that I recently lowered the price on, but only for you!) :) Its all fun until it isn't.

 

Rick


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#24 carolinaskies

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 10:03 AM

What very well may happen is the sales, finance and marketing departments get together and look at margins. It is entirely conceivable that they will cull out less profitable scopes and keep higher margin, longer backlog scopes as that will bring in more revenue and profit in the short term to mid term. They can "create" demand for them by not manufacturing the less expensive stuff. It is done all the time, think AP. High demand, low output, high cost to end user. And, yes, that model applies to GSO also. Altruism is not a concept taught in business school.

 

I am skeptical of prices going down, that is just not baked into any price structure I have ever seen. While your corn flakes may cost the same as two years ago, the package size and weight have shrunk. If a lot of competitors enter the market offering similar wares and the market demand is great, then cost can come down. That is not really indicated by the shrinkage in the astro market. Think Meade - Orion, and how many re-branded scopes and mounts there are. The actual suppliers are shrinking.

 

That there is your full 2 cents today.

 

Rick

To build somewhat on this... I purchased my first new telescope more than 22 years ago and another about a year after that.  To be honest the prices we've had pre-pandemic were lower factoring inflation into the prices than those from many years ago.  So while they have gone up, realistically they are still well within what most economists would call inflationary prices.  

Phil Harrington had this old ad posted on his webpage... it's one I remember well in the 90's and shows that an 8" LX200 classic was just shy of $2300(2295)... and was actually above that when you figured in the cost of shipping let alone sales tax. 

http://www.philharri...n.net/lx200.jpg 

Inflationary price is $3,852 but the current 8" is just under $3,000 and that's a more advanced optics and mount.  Yes it's hard to swallow the current price when it was lower 2 years ago.  No one likes to see prices increase.  We can only sit back and hope for a future change to our benefit. 

BTW, since our hobby is a niche market, it's best to realize a few salient facts about optics and mounts. 
1. Telescope optics are a very small percentage of total optical glass created by manufacturers and availability is subject to supply INTO our niche.  Telescope optics are a drop in the bucket for overall surface area created by optical glass companies... 
2. Quality mounts require specialized motor drives and drive controllers, once again a very small segment of the overall market production.  A company that makes servos for hobby uses makes far more for RC control and industrial use than a few thousand for high end mount applications.  
3. Mount brain electronics require precision manufacturing but in relatively small production vs conventional electronics.  So a mainboard for 100,000 Sony TVs has a much higher priority than mainboards for less than 1,000 Celestron CGX-L

This above list is what our hobby has ALWAYS had to deal with when supply chains got disrupted over the years.  


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#25 teashea

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 09:41 PM

To build somewhat on this... I purchased my first new telescope more than 22 years ago and another about a year after that.  To be honest the prices we've had pre-pandemic were lower factoring inflation into the prices than those from many years ago.  So while they have gone up, realistically they are still well within what most economists would call inflationary prices.  

Phil Harrington had this old ad posted on his webpage... it's one I remember well in the 90's and shows that an 8" LX200 classic was just shy of $2300(2295)... and was actually above that when you figured in the cost of shipping let alone sales tax. 

http://www.philharri...n.net/lx200.jpg 

Inflationary price is $3,852 but the current 8" is just under $3,000 and that's a more advanced optics and mount.  Yes it's hard to swallow the current price when it was lower 2 years ago.  No one likes to see prices increase.  We can only sit back and hope for a future change to our benefit. 

BTW, since our hobby is a niche market, it's best to realize a few salient facts about optics and mounts. 
1. Telescope optics are a very small percentage of total optical glass created by manufacturers and availability is subject to supply INTO our niche.  Telescope optics are a drop in the bucket for overall surface area created by optical glass companies... 
2. Quality mounts require specialized motor drives and drive controllers, once again a very small segment of the overall market production.  A company that makes servos for hobby uses makes far more for RC control and industrial use than a few thousand for high end mount applications.  
3. Mount brain electronics require precision manufacturing but in relatively small production vs conventional electronics.  So a mainboard for 100,000 Sony TVs has a much higher priority than mainboards for less than 1,000 Celestron CGX-L

This above list is what our hobby has ALWAYS had to deal with when supply chains got disrupted over the years.  

well stated




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