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Green Saturn after stacking

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#1 poofer

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 01:09 PM

I used Fire Capture on Saturn, I left the color balance at reset, G is quite high. I imaged a SER file 8 bit mono, no debayer. Used AS2 to stack the ser file. Output Saturn is all green, no blue or red. ASI 224 MC used, RGGB pattern. Do I have to set color balance up on Fire Capture “more settings” button before capturing? I thought Fire Capture knows I am imaging with a ASI 224MC and then correct debayer pattern rggb is then applied. Thanks?

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#2 matt_astro_tx

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 01:49 PM

My first check would be the color balance settings during acquisition.  I shoot at WRed 66 WBlue 90 if I recall correctly, but I use a different camera than yours.  The default/auto settings have never produced anything good for me.

 

Andrew Tulloch (username Tulloch) has done quite a bit of research into accurate color settings.  You can search the forums for his threads on the subject.

 

Here's one of his posts concerning color balance using the ASI224MC:  https://www.cloudyni...urs/?p=11351137


Edited by matt_astro_tx, 22 September 2021 - 01:51 PM.


#3 bunyon

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 02:20 PM

Also, do you have a UV/IR cut filter in place?



#4 poofer

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 02:31 PM

Also, do you have a UV/IR cut filter in place?

Yes I do.


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#5 descott12

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 02:32 PM

I am confused. You captured a MONO data file or color?


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#6 rkinnett

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 03:27 PM

FireCap usually (unless specifically disabled) generates a txt file next to each ser/avi recording, documenting your settings, statistics, and other metadata.  It's helpful to post that file along with questions like this so folks can look for obvious settings issues or compare to their own settings.

 

Try out the deBayer settings under the Colour menu in AS.  Auto detect should work but you may have to force RGGB.


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#7 poofer

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 05:01 PM

FireCap usually (unless specifically disabled) generates a txt file next to each ser/avi recording, documenting your settings, statistics, and other metadata.  It's helpful to post that file along with questions like this so folks can look for obvious settings issues or compare to their own settings.

 

Try out the deBayer settings under the Colour menu in AS.  Auto detect should work but you may have to force RGGB.

 


Text file by AS2.

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#8 Tulloch

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 07:57 PM

Hi there, thanks for supplying your FC logfile. The last few entries show the issue here, it appears you have your Wblue setting at 6 and your Wred setting at 1. These should be set to Wblue=99, Wred=62. You have basically told FireCapture to not record any of the red or blue channels, and this is reflected in the histogram values at the end - the maximum histogram value for one or more of your channels is just 2%, which is probably the red and blue channels. You need to fix these values and try again.

 

Also, you should be recording in Highspeed mode

 

...

Gain=420 (70%)
AutoHisto=75 (off)
USBTraffic=65 (off)
FPS=100 (off)
WBlue=6 (off)
HardwareBin=off
WRed=1 (off)
Gamma=50 (off)
HighSpeed=off
...

Histogramm(min)=0
Histogramm(max)=6
Histogramm=2%

 



#9 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 11:04 PM

Use the menu entry 'restore color values' under the 'More' tab to reset your Wrre/Wblue settings to factory default. In most cases these value are working just fine or need only minor adjustment.

Torsten



#10 poofer

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 11:26 PM

Hi there, thanks for supplying your FC logfile. The last few entries show the issue here, it appears you have your Wblue setting at 6 and your Wred setting at 1. These should be set to Wblue=99, Wred=62. You have basically told FireCapture to not record any of the red or blue channels, and this is reflected in the histogram values at the end - the maximum histogram value for one or more of your channels is just 2%, which is probably the red and blue channels. You need to fix these values and try again.

 

Also, you should be recording in Highspeed mode

 

...

Gain=420 (70%)
AutoHisto=75 (off)
USBTraffic=65 (off)
FPS=100 (off)
WBlue=6 (off)
HardwareBin=off
WRed=1 (off)
Gamma=50 (off)
HighSpeed=off
...

Histogramm(min)=0
Histogramm(max)=6
Histogramm=2%

Thanks, made the changes. Pat



#11 poofer

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Posted 22 September 2021 - 11:36 PM

Use the menu entry 'restore color values' under the 'More' tab to reset your Wrre/Wblue settings to factory default. In most cases these value are working just fine or need only minor adjustment.

Torsten

Thank you Torsten! Reset color values to default. Now clear sky’s await!



#12 poofer

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Posted 23 September 2021 - 12:41 PM

Any way to rescue the Green Saturn? Since R and B channels are so low. Thanks..

Pat



#13 matt_astro_tx

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Posted 23 September 2021 - 01:03 PM

Doubt it.  Because of your capture settings you didn't collect any of the red and blue photons.



#14 Borodog

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Posted 23 September 2021 - 02:20 PM

Any way to rescue the Green Saturn? Since R and B channels are so low. Thanks..

Pat

Stack as many of your frames as you can. Stack to FITS format. Open the .fit file in GIMP. Go to Color > Auto > Stretch Contrast, uncheck Keep Colors, click OK.



#15 Tulloch

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Posted 23 September 2021 - 06:05 PM

Thank you Torsten! Reset color values to default. Now clear sky’s await!

I don't think the "default" values are correct for this camera - however, you can always adjust the colours in post-processing, assuming you caught enough to begin with :).



#16 dcaponeii

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 09:28 AM

I don't think the "default" values are correct for this camera - however, you can always adjust the colours in post-processing, assuming you caught enough to begin with :).


Mine are slightly different than yours only because I set my green at “-10” by selecting the checkbox. Question: the color balance is “correct” when the histogram bars all extend the same amount (usually 50%) for me?

#17 bunyon

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 09:40 AM

Mine are slightly different than yours only because I set my green at “-10” by selecting the checkbox. Question: the color balance is “correct” when the histogram bars all extend the same amount (usually 50%) for me?

I don't think that's completely true. If you image Mars, the three bars won't be equal. There will be more red than blue by a fair margin. 

 

"True" color is hard. And may not exist. 

 

To the OP's point, though, if you don't collect ANY red or blue light, you can't recover it. I'd guess the best effort would be to take the raw stack, push red and blue as far as can be pushed without creating a ton of noise, and then converting to greyscale.


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#18 dcaponeii

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 01:09 PM

I don't think that's completely true. If you image Mars, the three bars won't be equal. There will be more red than blue by a fair margin. 

 

"True" color is hard. And may not exist. 

 

To the OP's point, though, if you don't collect ANY red or blue light, you can't recover it. I'd guess the best effort would be to take the raw stack, push red and blue as far as can be pushed without creating a ton of noise, and then converting to greyscale.

Yes come to think of it it's only Jupiter that R6 superimposes all the histogram plots when you RGB Balance.  For Saturn it ends up B then T then G (I think) and you are correct for Mars R is certainly at the highest values of the three.  I did discover the other night that Firecapture saves the RGB settings from the "more" control panel under the planet identifier.   My Saturn and Jupiter color settings are not saved to the same values (don't remember that they are but they were distinctly different from each other.  Looks good on the preview window and then R6 RGB Balance fixes them right up most of the time.


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#19 Tulloch

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 06:28 PM

In my experience, the colour balance on Jupiter is pretty well equal for the R/G/B channels, so the auto-RGB feature in Registax for Jupiter does a good job. However, it's not good for any of the other planets as they are not as equal in RGB, Mars is red, Neptune and Uranus are blue, Saturn is kinda yellowish. And once you find the correct offsets to use for one planet, why should it be different for all the others?

 

It ought to be possible to capture the planets in "true colour", they do have a colour reflectance spectrum and are bright enough to activate the cones in our eyes so we can see them.


Edited by Tulloch, 24 September 2021 - 06:28 PM.


#20 dcaponeii

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 06:41 PM

In my experience, the colour balance on Jupiter is pretty well equal for the R/G/B channels, so the auto-RGB feature in Registax for Jupiter does a good job. However, it's not good for any of the other planets as they are not as equal in RGB, Mars is red, Neptune and Uranus are blue, Saturn is kinda yellowish. And once you find the correct offsets to use for one planet, why should it be different for all the others?

 

It ought to be possible to capture the planets in "true colour", they do have a colour reflectance spectrum and are bright enough to activate the cones in our eyes so we can see them.

I wasn't trying to imply that I was doing anything correctly.  I just happened to notice the other night that the camera settings were not the same on my camera.  I need to fix them.  When I need to understand correct color settings I just look for your references and I'm pretty sure I'll be spot on.


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