105 replies to this topic

[Mitrovarr]

If they read this forum they should consider making a vendor account. It's always really nice when the vendor can give answers to questions directly.

Edited by Mitrovarr, 29 September 2021 - 02:27 PM.

[LDW47]

If they read this forum they should consider making a vendor account. It's always really nice when the vendor can give answers to questions directly.

Right on and maybe clear up somes imaginations about ........

[JamesDuffey]

There is no reason to believe the OP is personally profiting or connected to SVBONY. And the OP was clear that the eyepieces were better than the cheap plastic eyepieces provided with cheap department store scopes. I feel that is fair. His post might feel like an inquiry as to whether they are Orion Plossl at half the price, but he never claims that.

Scott

My post was meant to convey my reaction to the post and to Svbony using the pictures in their advertising. To me, reviews or portions of reviews that are used by manufacturers to sell product are less useful than reviews that aren’t used commercially. Others can see things differently and find the review useful. That is OK.

I didn’t mean to imply that the OP was personally profiting from Svbony using his positive review and his photographs in their advertising. The same photographs used in the review and in commercial promotional material is a connection between the reviewer and Svbony. Perhaps not a formal connection, but a connection none the less.   

 

Again, my post was meant to convey my reaction. I apologize for implying that the OP was profiting from the use of his review material by Svbony. 

[JamesDuffey]

Sometimes manufacturers use these images without asking. I once posted a picture of my portable amateur radio setup for mountain activations on QRZ.com.  Imagine my surprise when I found my picture on the manufacturer's homepage a few months later.  And no, they didn't ask for permission. 

 

Clear skies,

Mike

Mike - That is not the case here as Svbony gives the OP credit in their daily Blog. Good solar flux - KK6MC

[mtminnesota]

The proof is and always will be ' in the pudding '

The correct adage is "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting".  Not just looking at the pudding, but actually tasting it.

[Skywatcher Simon]

Hello folks,
First of all, thank you for all your message and concern.

Svbony asked me if they could have my Plössl pictures.  I Agreed. I have to admit I was very flattered. I was not aware that a biased impression could arise. You can be sure that I write my reviews based on my personal experience and opinion. :-)

[LDW47]

The correct adage is "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting".  Not just looking at the pudding, but actually tasting it.

I have always grown up hearing it my way, I like it that way for the last 60 odd yrs  Maybe its the Canadian way

[LDW47]

Hello folks,
First of all, thank you for all your message and concern.

Svbony asked me if they could have my Plössl pictures.  I Agreed. I have to admit I was very flattered. I was not aware that a biased impression could arise. You can be sure that I write my reviews based on my personal experience and opinion. :-)

Good for you !  There are many, many doubters, critics, ........... in life even if the don't know .........

[LDW47]

The correct adage is "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting".  Not just looking at the pudding, but actually tasting it.

Up here we always took it asth taste, it went without saying

[Skywatcher Simon]

Today I checked several of my eyepieces for distortion.

Baader Classic Ortho 18mm, Svbony Plössl 17mm, Svbony 23mm Aspheric and the Omegon 20mm SWAN.

I feel like they're all showing distortion. some more some less.

 

[SteveG]

Today I checked several of my eyepieces for distortion.

Baader Classic Ortho 18mm, Svbony Plössl 17mm, Svbony 23mm Aspheric and the Omegon 20mm SWAN.

I feel like they're all showing distortion. some more some less.

 

distortion.jpg

Classic pincushion distortion. Almost all eyepieces have this, and you don’t really notice it under the stars.

[MartinPond]

Today I checked several of my eyepieces for distortion.

Baader Classic Ortho 18mm, Svbony Plössl 17mm, Svbony 23mm Aspheric and the Omegon 20mm SWAN.

I feel like they're all showing distortion. some more some less.

 

distortion.jpg

Very interesting!

My visual experience with the SVBONY 23mm Aspheric was like the picture....a bit more fuzzy at the

    image edges, even at the center.

 

So many elements now are ground in large batches on a ball mount by 

   computer-controlled machines.   They really do quantity+quality for simple EPs. 

Edited by MartinPond, 30 September 2021 - 07:32 PM.

[teashea]

I also noticed a slight similarity with my Skywatcher 25 mm Super-Plössl eyepiece.

 

Svbony_Skywatcher_Plossl_02.jpg

 

 

But I have the feeling that the Svbony 25mm has slightly better coatings.

 

Svbony_Skywatcher_Plossl_01.jpg

 

 

Both eyepieces have a 24mm wide glass element

 

Svbony_Skywatcher_Plossl_05.jpg

 

Looking through it during the day, however, I don't see any significant difference.

I think both eyepieces perform very well.

 

Svbony_Skywatcher_Plossl_04.jpg

 

Svbony_Skywatcher_Plossl_03.jpg

 

I took the pictures with my smartphone through the eyepiece. The pigeon was sitting on a branch about 10 meters from me.

Interesting comparison

[teashea]

I have now made the pictures through the Baader Classic Orthos and the Svbony SV131 Plössel.

 

Set.jpg

 

 

Distortions can be seen in both.

 

baader_vs_Svbony.jpg

 

 

 

Personally, I find the eye relief with the orthos more relaxed. Especially with the 10 and 6mm. The field of vision also seems to be wider. But they cost 68 € each! If you look at the price difference, I think the Svbony Plössl do a pretty good job!

Wow, the SV's are much better

[teashea]

This isn't a review, it's an advertisement. You compare these eyepieces to all-plastic toy eyepieces and proclaim them "a real treasure". I don't get it.

Actually I find it to be an very well done comparison.  

[teashea]

I actually think it's a good review. Simon duly notices the shortcomings he finds and mentions both the pros and cons to these very low budget eyepieces and really try to properly illustrate how they work and the aberrations he sees. For a beginner, just starting out with low budget equipment, these eyepieces are excellent and often a real step up in quality from the appalling junk sold with many beginner's telescopes. 

 

My first investment in modern eyepieces, all the way back in 1995, was a no-name 26mm and 17mm Plössls, which were a massive improvement over my previous eyepieces. I know exactly why he feels so enthusiastic about them. 

 

I wish many more reviewers took as great care in testing out the eyepieces they write about, as Simon does... 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

Right on Thomas

[teashea]

hey, i'm sorry if my post gives such an impression. I'm still quite inexperienced with writing reviews. 

 

At first I doubted that the Svbony Plössl eyepieces would produce a sharp image. I also didn't believe that they would feel good. in the end I was impressed. sharp image and good solid construction. somehow I can't put that into writing so well.

 

And of course, they also have disadvantages. as I already wrote, the field of view is not that wide, you have to stick your eye to the eyepiece (litle eye relief) and I have not concealed the distortions at the edge of the image ... 

 

I think an advertisment would not list any negative properties.

 

I will take your advice to heart in any case. 

You have nothing to apologize for.  It was not an advertisement.  You did very very well.  Props to you.  There are some anti-SV people about.  

[sanbai]

You have nothing to apologize for. It was not an advertisement. You did very very well. Props to you. There are some anti-SV people about.

I guess the main issue with SVbony is we don't know much about the company and they sell in Amazon marketplace. This is not the best way to create a good reputation, even if the products are good.

They don't do much different than other companies. But we know for example who is behind Astro-tech, in addition to the care they put in their branded products (thanks Astronomics for bringing us this site and those products at great price!). Similar if I say Blue fireball (Agena). Not to say about Televue (which outsources many things including their eyepieces... Of course there's more than that behind their products).

There's nothing wrong in being based in Hong-Kong or wherever else, absolutely not. It isn't wrong either to rebrand stuff made by Synta or whatever company in whatever country. But if you don't introduce yourself, tell us more about your goals and the care you put on products, then you sell cheap, and you are (one more of the thousand of unknown cheap) Amazon marketplace seller... Well, that triggers the biased thinking and a natural untrust of us, humans.

Yes, we are biased. You can sell an eyepiece (or whatever else) "designed by Dr. Oskar Mayer in Germany" for more than one "made in China by Nihao Stellar advanced optical industries ltd", even if it's the same one. Even if people know it!

It takes more than excellent products to buil a good reputation. One cannot be dependent on people like Simon willing to do a review.

Maybe I haven't put enough attention, but I'm missing more human factor in those small-medium size Chinese companies. Isn't that difficult to put a good picture of a CEO, or an engineer or product manager, or just the plain owner? A bit of history or story? (No hyperbole or marketing **** please). It will change some minds, make it closer to us. I'm looking forward. I guess this is a cultural difference.

[Udderly Abducted]

Here's a page detailing some info about themselves with pictures: https://svbony.aliex...pHead_6276098.7

 

The bottom of this page shows that they started in 2008: https://svbony.aliex...pHead_6276098.0

 

On this page, they say they started in 2014: https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/B07JWDFMZ5

 

Now is any of this true? No idea! I know they couldn't have started in two different years though. Haha. I still tend to think that they are a rebrander, but it really doesn't matter to me. I still enjoy some of their stuff for the price.

Edited by Udderly Abducted, 30 September 2021 - 10:44 PM.

[teashea]

I guess the main issue with SVbony is we don't know much about the company and they sell in Amazon marketplace. This is not the best way to create a good reputation, even if the products are good.

They don't do much different than other companies. But we know for example who is behind Astro-tech, in addition to the care they put in their branded products (thanks Astronomics for bringing us this site and those products at great price!). Similar if I say Blue fireball (Agena). Not to say about Televue (which outsources many things including their eyepieces... Of course there's more than that behind their products).

There's nothing wrong in being based in Hong-Kong or wherever else, absolutely not. It isn't wrong either to rebrand stuff made by Synta or whatever company in whatever country. But if you don't introduce yourself, tell us more about your goals and the care you put on products, then you sell cheap, and you are (one more of the thousand of unknown cheap) Amazon marketplace seller... Well, that triggers the biased thinking and a natural untrust of us, humans.

Yes, we are biased. You can sell an eyepiece (or whatever else) "designed by Dr. Oskar Mayer in Germany" for more than one "made in China by Nihao Stellar advanced optical industries ltd", even if it's the same one. Even if people know it!

It takes more than excellent products to buil a good reputation. One cannot be dependent on people like Simon willing to do a review.

Maybe I haven't put enough attention, but I'm missing more human factor in those small-medium size Chinese companies. Isn't that difficult to put a good picture of a CEO, or an engineer or product manager, or just the plain owner? A bit of history or story? (No hyperbole or marketing **** please). It will change some minds, make it closer to us. I'm looking forward. I guess this is a cultural difference.

To me it is the product that is the most important thing, rather than the culture of the company.  I will say that the culture of a company like Takahashi is quite appealing, but I would not buy their telescopes just because of the fascinating corporate culture.  

[teashea]

Here's a page detailing some info about themselves with pictures: https://svbony.aliex...pHead_6276098.7

 

The bottom of this page shows that they started in 2008: https://svbony.aliex...pHead_6276098.0

 

On this page, they say they started in 2014: https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/B07JWDFMZ5

 

Now is any of this true? No idea! I know they couldn't have started in two different years though. Haha. I still tend to think that they are a rebrander, but it really doesn't matter to me. I still enjoy some of their stuff for the price.

It could be that that there is a translation issue.  "start" can mean different things.

[SteveG]

Wow, the SV's are much better

How so? In the picture, the only (2) that are even close to the same magnification is the 17 vs 18 comparison. The Baader ortho clearly has less distortion.

 

The next closest is the 6 mm comparison. Obviously one of these is not 6 mm, and the ortho has a much larger afov. If the plossl had a larger afov, you would likely see the same distortion.

 

The other two really can't be compared with each other - the magnification is too different.

 

Non of this really matters when looking at stars. Most eyepieces have either pincushion or barrel distortion.

[LDW47]

I guess the main issue with SVbony is we don't know much about the company and they sell in Amazon marketplace. This is not the best way to create a good reputation, even if the products are good.

They don't do much different than other companies. But we know for example who is behind Astro-tech, in addition to the care they put in their branded products (thanks Astronomics for bringing us this site and those products at great price!). Similar if I say Blue fireball (Agena). Not to say about Televue (which outsources many things including their eyepieces... Of course there's more than that behind their products).

There's nothing wrong in being based in Hong-Kong or wherever else, absolutely not. It isn't wrong either to rebrand stuff made by Synta or whatever company in whatever country. But if you don't introduce yourself, tell us more about your goals and the care you put on products, then you sell cheap, and you are (one more of the thousand of unknown cheap) Amazon marketplace seller... Well, that triggers the biased thinking and a natural untrust of us, humans.

Yes, we are biased. You can sell an eyepiece (or whatever else) "designed by Dr. Oskar Mayer in Germany" for more than one "made in China by Nihao Stellar advanced optical industries ltd", even if it's the same one. Even if people know it!

It takes more than excellent products to buil a good reputation. One cannot be dependent on people like Simon willing to do a review.

Maybe I haven't put enough attention, but I'm missing more human factor in those small-medium size Chinese companies. Isn't that difficult to put a good picture of a CEO, or an engineer or product manager, or just the plain owner? A bit of history or story? (No hyperbole or marketing **** please). It will change some minds, make it closer to us. I'm looking forward. I guess this is a cultural difference.

Telescopes Canada are starting to sell them up here in Ontario  Who is next ??

[Dobs O Fun]

As a new astronomer on a budget I really didn't care about when a company started or where their distribution outlets were.

I was looking for a particular EP performance within a price range.

I'm not buying $600 Naglers just yet.

I wasn't worried about rebranding. I'm not buying a so-called Rolex quality paying timex prices knowing I'm getting a cheap device that will fail in a short time.

I bought Celestron stuff on Amazon.

I bought a 6mm red line for about $35 and the funny part is that it has very similar performance of the XCel Lx 5mm that I paid $90 for.

As far as knock offs. Who owns the license to a particular EP design? Is there such a one?

I worked in aerospace. PPG made aircraft windows to a particular spec. Their MFG process is proprietary. Another manufacturer could MFG using same specs but their own process was used.

Russians built the Buran, etc.

At the end of the day I dont see how the negative issues about Svbony really hold water.

[SeattleScott]

I don’t think anyone is saying the SVBONY is a cheap knock off of the APM. Most likely it is pretty much identical. From the same factory, probably made to the same spec. Just a different label. At the moment it is cheaper under SVBONY label.

Eyepieces under $100 are often inconsistent in performance. The 6mm you have is considered the best in the series. The 5mm Xcel LX is considered a weaker one in the series. So not too surprised you find their performance similar. BTW the 5mm is really more like 4.5mm, which is significantly different than 6mm, and could make performance comparison difficult, especially if the 4.5 is pushing the limit of seeing, collimation or the scope.

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 02 October 2021 - 02:54 PM.